Matt Targett set to miss remainder of season with hamstring injury (Howe)

[macphisto]

43 minutes ago, STM said:

Find me a left back who defends like Targett but also gets elite level goals and assists and we can talk.

 

Unless someone comes along and says "X player can do both", it's a pointless conversation.

 

I'd be gutted if we regressed defensively.

Based on this rationale then you wouldn't sign the equivalent of Trent Alexander-Arnold at left back if there was one available? I'd say Targett is better defensively than TAA. 

[STM]

6 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Based on this rationale then you wouldn't sign the equivalent of Trent Alexander-Arnold at left back if there was one available? I'd say Targett is better defensively than TAA. 

 

I'm actually asking you to provide a plausible transfer option.

 

Also, put Trent in a side that's asked to defend for 60% of the game and he will make mistakes.

[The College Dropout]

17 minutes ago, macphisto said:

If he is not what Howe is looking for then you are essentially espousing a philosophy of putting individual players before the system of play which almost inevitably leads to dysfunctional clubs (Everton, Man U, PSG). Yes, Targett is a great defender but he offers little going forward, you can't get away from his stats. I would much rather have a player who is not as solid a defender but offers more going forward if he fits more into Howe's style of play (the system of play is more important than any player). That way the club gets used to a style of play and when we do upgrade, we are only upgrading the player and not upgrading the player and changing the style of play at the same time.  

 

To be fair to Howe, his priority next season should be developing Willock, Joelinton and ASM and seeing if they can be incorporated into his system of play in the future. Essentially we already have enough players who need to adapt to what Howe is after without buying new players unsuited to his style of play (if that applies to Targett). 

 

@greydos We don't need to be afraid of the top six if we had more of an attacking fullback, only the top two. Take away Man City and Liverpool and I would fancy our chances against any of the other teams next season, particularly at home.

 

 

 

It's not like. At least 2 of them should not be automatic starters next season. Ideally all 3. His priority next season is to get us into Europe - or close.

[macphisto]

10 minutes ago, STM said:

 

I'm actually asking you to provide a plausible transfer option.

 

Also, put Trent in a side that's asked to defend for 60% of the game and he will make mistakes.

I'm not going to start suggesting players as I don't know enough about the European markets (if you had asked me in January about midfielders then I would never of suggested Bruno) but I would say Howe views it as a crucial position in the team as we did bid for Digne and Gosens in January, French and German internationals. I have no doubt there will be plenty of other players out there who offer more going forward than Targett; whether they are as good defensively may be a trade-off Howe is willing to make.

 

Regarding the last sentence, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? I inferred TAA is not a great defender by saying Targett is better defensively. I'd also like to think that after this summer we will not be defending 60% of the time next season. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by macphisto

[The College Dropout]

Also Walker, Zinchenko don't get many assists or goals. Chelsea, Spurs play with wing-backs which is a different position entirely.

 

The best teams in the division that play a back 4 have at least 1 conservative first choice fullback.

 

I would replace ASM before Targett.

 

Aston Villa want to become Everton and are sitting in 15th after spending £150m on players that flatter to deceive. I don't care why they let Targett go.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by The College Dropout

[macphisto]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It's not like. At least 2 of them should not be automatic starters next season. Ideally all 3. His priority next season is to get us into Europe - or close.

You know I was on about developing players, you're just being pedantic brining European qualification into it. What I meant is his priority with regards to developing players should be those three as they are the ones where the jury is out but all have the potential to fit into Howe's future plans and style of play.

[Oregon_Geordie]

Folk talking about not signing him, need to give themselves a shake. Should be the first signing and will be great for the next 5 years.

Maybe becoming a back up after the next 1/2. His attacking game can be encouraged as we retain the ball better and we get a stronger midfield and attack.

 

Must sign for me.

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Also Walker, Zinchenko don't get many assists or goals. Chelsea, Spurs play with wing-backs which is a different position entirely.

 

The best teams in the division that play a back 4 have at least 1 conservative first choice fullback.

 

I would replace ASM before Targett.

 

Aston Villa want to become Everton and are sitting in 15th after spending £150m on players that flatter to deceive. I don't care why they let Targett go.

 

 

 

And? This whole discussion was started earlier on by someone mentioning the Waugh article today in the Athletic which stated Targett might not be the automatic signing that everyone assumes as Howe likes attacking fullbacks. If that is what Howe is looking for then I'd fully back him in looking elsewhere as Targett is not an attacking fullback which his time at Villa and with us illustrates. I have no problem with Targett as a defender, all I have said is that Howe should buy the player best suited to his system.

 

I'm pleased you mention Everton as that is exactly the model people are advocating we follow if you buy players who are not suited to the style of play a manager wants to implement. If Howe sees Targett as his type of player then great, I'd be all for that. If he is not his type of player then move on to someone else. It would be crazy to buy a player not suited to your style of play no matter how good they are, that is where Everton, Man U and PSG have gone wrong in the past.

[The College Dropout]

28 minutes ago, macphisto said:

And? This whole discussion was started earlier on by someone mentioning the Waugh article today in the Athletic which stated Targett might not be the automatic signing that everyone assumes as Howe likes attacking fullbacks. If that is what Howe is looking for then I'd fully back him in looking elsewhere as Targett is not an attacking fullback which his time at Villa and with us illustrates. I have no problem with Targett as a defender, all I have said is that Howe should buy the player best suited to his system.

 

I'm pleased you mention Everton as that is exactly the model people are advocating we follow if you buy players who are not suited to the style of play a manager wants to implement. If Howe sees Targett as his type of player then great, I'd be all for that. If he is not his type of player then move on to someone else. It would be crazy to buy a player not suited to your style of play no matter how good they are, that is where Everton, Man U and PSG have gone wrong in the past.

Not sure I agree here.

 

I think if you let managers have too much autonomy in the transfer market, you'll end up with a disjointed squad as managers come and go. That's what happened at Man U (among other things) and Everton (among other things). Only exceptions if you're willing to bet everything that this 1 manager is your guy e.g. Conte, Pep, Klopp. I can see Villa making the same mistakes Everton made. Spent the summer signing playmakers, wide players and 2 first team strikers... brought in a new manager who has brought in his own playmaker (on astronomical wages), only plays 1 upfront, no wide players and spent £30m on an inferior fullback on astronomical wages. All for a manager that is not proven. If it doesn't work, they're saddled with the Everton problem.

 

I think you sign a core group of players that suit a general style for the club and give the manager 1 or 2 just for him. That's the RB model, Madrid and Chelsea do similar. Ultimately, Howe himself is a transitionary managerial appointment. Is he the man to get us into the top 4? Let's get quality players of a particular hard working profile, if Howe doesn't work out we'll get in someone that will make it work.

 

I'm not living or dying behind Targett here. If we have legit better players with the right attitude we should get them. But we should avoid Targett out, Digne in type disaster transfers.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by The College Dropout

[nufc123]

Turning down Targett for £15m is crazy. Been the best leftback behind Mitchell/Cresswell and the top teams. A no brainer.

[macphisto]

35 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Not sure I agree here.

 

I think if you let managers have too much autonomy in the transfer market, you'll end up with a disjointed squad as managers come and go. That's what happened at Man U (among other things) and Everton (among other things). Only exceptions if you're willing to bet everything that this 1 manager is your guy e.g. Conte, Pep, Klopp. I can see Villa making the same mistakes Everton made. Spent the summer signing playmakers, wide players and 2 first team strikers... brought in a new manager who has brought in his own playmaker (on astronomical wages), only plays 1 upfront, no wide players and spent £30m on an inferior fullback on astronomical wages. All for a manager that is not proven. If it doesn't work, they're saddled with the Everton problem.

 

I think you sign a core group of players that suit a general style for the club and give the manager 1 or 2 just for him. That's the RB model, Madrid and Chelsea do similar. Ultimately, Howe himself is a transitionary managerial appointment. Is he the man to get us into the top 4? Let's get quality players of a particular hard working profile, if Howe doesn't work out we'll get in someone that will make it work.

 

I'm not living or dying behind Targett here. If we have legit better players with the right attitude we should get them. But we should avoid Targett out, Digne in type disaster transfers.

 

 

 

I agree about a manager not having too much power but I would say that's where the importance of a Director of Football comes in as they set the philosophy for the club to follow and appoint appropriate managers to fulfil that philosophy. I guess the crucial question for the future is how rigid will the club's philosophy be in regards to appointing managers? 

 

With respect to signing players, I like the idea that Liverpool follow in having a transfer committee where in our case it would possibly be Howe, Ashworth, scouting team and the data team. 

 

Reading what you've said above, I don't think we're miles apart in our view but my emphasis is not on "Targett out" as he's not our player but rather "Targett in" at the expense of a player more suited to Howe's style of play. If he is suited to Howe's style of play then great, I have no issues at all. I would imagine Howe and Ashworth are not far apart in their views. We will undoubtedly make mistakes in the transfer market and but based on the club's pragmatism and business in January together with Ashworth's input I am sure we will avoid the mistakes that Everton made. 

 

A few months back, Staveley and Ghodoussi went to look around Man City and I am sure they must have discussed the mistakes City experienced in their first few years and also the importance of having a strong infrastructure in place. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by macphisto

[greydos]

This whole idea that Targett may not fit into Howe’s style is silly. Targett’s just helped Howe pick up the 2nd most points in the league in 2022, picking up wins in 60%+ of his starts.

 

In the pre-Norwich press conference Howe has said that he needs to be and is: (1) adaptable on style, and (2) enjoying the way we play this year. Now Howe will change to add a bit more control next year. That means more short passing around defence and midfield. Nothing I’ve seen says Targett can’t play in such a team. He’s not Lascelles on the ball!

 

Also this point about lack of assists is so harsh. Our team is light on goals and finishers. So when can he get a lot of assists? We won loads by the odd goal. More pertinent is whether he progresses the ball safely (though even that stat is hurt by Wood’s inability to trap a ball) and plays key passes. The eye test says he’s good at both

[OverThere]

IMO Targett is one of the top 3 players on the team.

 

We should sign him, even though we may be attacking more in the future. 15M for this quality of player is a massive bargain and allows the money to be spent on what we all know we need and that is a big time striker.

[Fantail Breeze]

Why wouldn’t we sign him? At worst he’d be a significantly improved back up option for us and a relatively modest price.

 

He’s shown he can be a steady defender.

 

We need more options than 11 players, we need to improve the whole squad and he does that.

[Scotty66]

He's so reliable, every game I've seen him play in I've seen him shut down his man on so many occasions, just a block tackle or shoulder to shoulder race and he gets the ball. Such an under rated player. 

 

Would be a excellent signing especially with trippier on the other side. Not many teams would be able to attack us constantly down the flanks. 

[Comegetasample]

Wait, who's saying we shouldn't sign him? 

[Guest HTT II]

I’m sure Howe can develop a way to get Targett more forward and be more of an attacking threat which he has been doing lately. It’s a lazy term to say someone is an attacking full-back because they get forward, or is a defensive full back because they don’t and the. Come to conclusions one is poor in attack and the other is poor in defence because of that. Targett is very very good defensively and more than capable going forward. Regardless, you can’t put a price on having a player with experience, professionalism, a good healthy fitness record, with a high work ethic who puts the team ahead of himself who you can rely on every week, whatever position on the pitch and Targett has all those traits. 

[Lotus]

Bakker is better with the ball tbs and probably quicker too. Fwiw.

[Geordie Ahmed]

To me signing Targett makes sense, it's such a no brainer based on his performances and the reported fee.

 

However if Howe has seen something in his game that means he doesn't want to sign him permanently then I have no issues with that, I think Howe has earned himself the right to make judgments on players and we have to trust him.

 

Having said that, I'd be surprised if Howe didn't want him and I wouldn't pay too much attention to that article, there's a lot of assumptions in it and some serious stretching.

 

 

[80]

Didn't think signing the best full back we've had in a decade (allowing for Trippier's broken foot) would be so controversial.

[dave s]

he’s excellent and we should sign him. end 

[KaKa]

People should probably read the article macphisto is referring to in the Athletic.

 

It says Howe is still evaluating things regarding Targett, and it's not a guaranteed signing as of yet. Apparently in Howe's Bournemouth teams, in his preferred setup, his full backs often had the most touches and he always looked to have two marauding full backs that overlapped his wingers as the wingers are asked to sit more narrow.

 

If Howe ultimately determines that he'd like a full back that is more attack minded than Targett, then I'd be fine with that. He should be allowed the freedom to build the exact kind of team he wants, and shouldn't be doubted. He'll have the budget to get a high quality player in that position, and the whole pre-season to bed them in, and so I don't anticipate any issues whatever call he does make.

[Conjo]

19 hours ago, Comegetasample said:

Wait, who's saying we shouldn't sign him? 

 

Don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't sign him? Some people say IF Howe has another target in mind he prefers over Targett then they are comfortable with letting Targett go back to Villa which I think is fair enough on the basis of trusting the manager to make the best decision for the club.

 

We should sign Targett permanently though.

[Jordan]

22 minutes ago, KaKa said:

People should probably read the article macphisto is referring to in the Athletic.

 

It says Howe is still evaluating things regarding Targett, and it's not a guaranteed signing as of yet. Apparently in Howe's Bournemouth teams, in his preferred setup, his full backs often had the most touches and he always looked to have two marauding full backs that overlapped his wingers as the wingers are asked to sit more narrow.

 

If Howe ultimately determines that he'd like a full back that is more attack minded than Targett, then I'd be fine with that. He should be allowed the freedom to build the exact kind of team he wants, and shouldn't be doubted. He'll have the budget to get a high quality player in that position, and the whole pre-season to bed them in, and so I don't anticipate any issues whatever call he does make.

The worrying bit from that article for me is that we’re looking to retain Dummett. Blokes a sicknote. 

[Dr Jinx]

Target going forward is not the issue. As he’s not really been allowed to.

 

His job is to cover for ASM who will repeatedly lose the ball for every successful carry he does. This puts enormous pressure on a left back to carry that extra responsibility in games, that won’t be lost on Eddie Howe.

 

If an agreement with Villa is in place, it’s a no brainer.