Still not worthy of a thread

[Guest firetotheworks]

English players tend to be 'industrious', which is basically the same as the Africans only you've removed the 'powerful physical specimen' bit and we're basically just calling ourselves shite.

Proper football man.

[Astroblack]

English players tend to be 'industrious', which is basically the same as the Africans only you've removed the 'powerful physical specimen' bit and we're basically just calling ourselves shite.

 

Was also going to bring this as well as the German stereotype up.

 

I think we just all need to stop listening to sport punditry. It's getting out of control now with analysis videos plastered all over Youtube. Sky analysis, ESPN FC, BEIN Sport, BT Sport, and now even NBC Sport. None of them seem to watch games on a game by game basis. It's all stereotypes and buzzwords.

[Hanshithispantz]

Is the Raheem Sterling criticism because he's black like? I assumed it was because he was shit at the Euros. I just cannot see the deal like, just about every time someone complains about something it's rooted in truth in some way but it's almost always followed by completely over the top Nth degree 'PC gone mad' cynicism about how horrendous everything is and how everyone needs to immediately just change.

 

Like aye, it's fairly natural that someone would view an African player as more 'powerful' than a white player, especially if they have no evidence of the contrary, because African's tend to excel in athletics.

 

That Yaya example is perfect actually, as there's honestly not a single person I've ever spoken too who wouldn't give him his do's for his technical ability. I don't think those people also need to pretend he's 4ft tall and 30 pounds in fear of stereotyping an obviously massive and extremely physically opposing black man.

 

The sun literally ran an article with a picture of a drug dealer that looked like Sterling. He was booed at random grounds around the country presumably for having the temerity to leave Liverpool. Why would Burnley fans boo him? That's not happened to a single other player who has left a club for money.  There was literally an embedded ticker on a website that counted the cash he'd made. What had he actually done? Went to a club for more money.

 

No one is saying he isn't physically imposing but his main attributes by far are technical, not physical.  Don't need to pretend he's small as that's obviously ludicrous but there is definitely different language used in describing white players to black that goes beyond simple physical attributes imo

I may have missed something here like, was that because he was black? (Sterling)

 

I remember him getting a load of stick at the Euros for missing a few sitters and he was basically the traditional scapegoat but I've ignored most of what's happened after that, I'd just assumed that combined with his transfer was what people were giving him abuse for.

 

Regarding Toure, he is a fairly unique player tbf. His obvious raw power combined with his ability on the ball stands out - I think him starting out as a DM emphasises that a little bit too. Without the power he's probably a really good player but not a great one (and I recognise he's a lazy cunt). You could say the same about someone like Vidal (also recognised as a beast).

[Guest firetotheworks]

I don't think it's fair to say it's 'rooted' though, it's some people meaning something and others not. Someone described Coloccini as a beast on here either today or yesterday. I don't think you can make presumptions with something that's so nuanced and, imo, rooted in circumstance.

 

Yeah but that's not analogous to its general usage. Sure there is anomalies in everything, I don't doubt that. Overall patterns are much more likely to show something significant though.  I would predict that if you ran the same analysis as the NFL one above, you'd find largely the same patterns.

So there's a stereotype of the sort of person who says it.

 

You're going to have to run that by me again? is there a stereotype of the person who says "beast'? I have no idea. I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

You're saying that its general usage is rooted in race, I'm saying that if you're going to pre-judge every situation on general usage then it's not really any different than jumping to judge based on a stereotype that doesn't always apply.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist btw, i haven't at any point, but I think it's ignoring the reality of black and white players often being incomparable in physical attributes and the assumption that it's derogatory or confined to one specific race. I'd be in your corner with evidence to the contrary. Happy to be wrong if there are any examples of comparable players that aren't being tagged in the same way, but I honestly don't see it.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Proper football man was self coined by English managers and pundits. Also its not applicable to people like Howe or Hughton, Monk or whoever. It's far more generational than it is anything else.

Conversely it's also become a slight rather than a compliment. I'm just making the point that these things aren't necessarily isolated cases confined to race. As you say it's a generational thing.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I don't think it's fair to say it's 'rooted' though, it's some people meaning something and others not. Someone described Coloccini as a beast on here either today or yesterday. I don't think you can make presumptions with something that's so nuanced and, imo, rooted in circumstance.

 

Yeah but that's not analogous to its general usage. Sure there is anomalies in everything, I don't doubt that. Overall patterns are much more likely to show something significant though.  I would predict that if you ran the same analysis as the NFL one above, you'd find largely the same patterns.

So there's a stereotype of the sort of person who says it.

 

You're going to have to run that by me again? is there a stereotype of the person who says "beast'? I have no idea. I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

You're saying that its general usage is rooted in race, I'm saying that if you're going to pre-judge every situation on general usage then it's not really any different than jumping to judge based on a stereotype that doesn't always apply.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist btw, i haven't at any point, but I think it's ignoring the reality of black and white players often being incomparable in physical attributes and the assumption that it's derogatory or confined to one specific race. I'd be in your corner with evidence to the contrary. Happy to be wrong if there are any examples of comparable players that aren't being tagged in the same way, but I honestly don't see it.

 

The term beast? I still don't get what you mean. Are you asking me if there's a stereotype of the sort of person who goes "he's a beast" when they see a new black player? I honestly wouldn't know. But where do you want me to judge it from? it's my observations just like anyone's opinion on anything. Same as you don't see a pattern in it, I do. Unless its conclusively proven one way or another then I guess we will never know.

I must be absolutely shit at explaining things because no one ever understands what I'm on about. I'm saying there's probably a stereotype of the sort of person who would call a black player powerful or a powerhouse and for it to be rooted in race. That stereotype then probably automatically influences your assumptions when you hear it, even when it's a completely fair and accurate description.

[Hanshithispantz]

We'll need to see more of Merino like, hopefully he's an absolute beast.

 

Beast of a CM.

 

Merino has it all in his locker and could be a beast for us.

 

#teambeast

[Hanshithispantz]

I also searched 'powerful' but the only result was from TCD which sort of made a mug of me tbh so I left it out.

[Wullie]

Reminds me of Shak's quarterback thread.

[Foluwashola]

I also searched 'powerful' but the only result was from TCD which sort of made a mug of me tbh so I left it out.

 

My results back up TCD's theories somewhat. I'm out.

 

Seems to be a big, powerful black man.

 

Therefore, he is either a Tiote or an Amdy Faye. Hoping for the latter.

[Guest firetotheworks]

My two results are for Ronaldo and Sissoko so I guess I'm only 50% a definite racist.

[The College Dropout]

What TCD is saying is definitely rooted in truth.. It's the same with the term"beast",  its almost exclusively used on black players. There's a a tendency of commentators and pundits to needlessly focus on black players physical attributes rather than their technical ones. It's also not confined to football, happens in the NFL too.  And it's not just that really, the treatment from fans/media of Raheem Sterling is absolutely insane. Like he's the ONLY footballer to have ever moved for money. It's an endemic problem in football for sure.

 

Thank you.

 

You made points that I want to highlight:

- It's a media thing that I'm referring to.  Pundits and commentators. It's not a personal attack on anyone (Hans). 

- focus on physical rather than technical. Not saying nobody rates them technically.  I've used the Mendy example a few times because he spent all afternoon delivering brilliant crosses and he was praised fo his physical skill long before the commentator acknowledged his technical skill.

- it's not just football. It happens in other sports - heck it happens in real life. 

[Foluwashola]

My two results are for Ronaldo and Sissoko so I guess I'm only 50% a definite racist.

 

Tbf I had also said it about Jose Enrique 8 ago. Equal opportunities.

[Hanshithispantz]

I also searched 'powerful' but the only result was from TCD which sort of made a mug of me tbh so I left it out.

 

My results back up TCD's theories somewhat. I'm out.

 

Seems to be a big, powerful black man.

 

Therefore, he is either a Tiote or an Amdy Faye. Hoping for the latter.

this hasn't worked out well for us like.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Would you please name all of these white genetic freak athletes that aren't being called powerful but should?

This, basically.

 

Still waiting for an answer to this, mind.

[The College Dropout]

Is the Raheem Sterling criticism because he's black like? I assumed it was because he was s*** at the Euros. I just cannot see the deal like, just about every time someone complains about something it's rooted in truth in some way but it's almost always followed by completely over the top Nth degree 'PC gone mad' cynicism about how horrendous everything is and how everyone needs to immediately just change.

 

Like aye, it's fairly natural that someone would view an African player as more 'powerful' than a white player, especially if they have no evidence of the contrary, because African's tend to excel in athletics.

 

That Yaya example is perfect actually, as there's honestly not a single person I've ever spoken too who wouldn't give him his do's for his technical ability. I don't think those people also need to pretend he's 4ft tall and 30 pounds in fear of stereotyping an obviously massive and extremely physically opposing black man.

 

The sun literally ran an article with a picture of a drug dealer that looked like Sterling. He was booed at random grounds around the country presumably for having the temerity to leave Liverpool. Why would Burnley fans boo him? That's not happened to a single other player who has left a club for money.  There was literally an embedded ticker on a website that counted the cash he'd made. What had he actually done? Went to a club for more money.

 

No one is saying he isn't physically imposing but his main attributes by far are technical, not physical.  Don't need to pretend he's small as that's obviously ludicrous but there is definitely different language used in describing white players to black that goes beyond simple physical attributes imo

I may have missed something here like, was that because he was black? (Sterling)

 

I remember him getting a load of stick at the Euros for missing a few sitters and he was basically the traditional scapegoat but I've ignored most of what's happened after that, I'd just assumed that combined with his transfer was what people were giving him abuse for.

 

Regarding Toure, he is a fairly unique player tbf. His obvious raw power combined with his ability on the ball stands out - I think him starting out as a DM emphasises that a little bit too. Without the power he's probably a really good player but not a great one (and I recognise he's a lazy c***). You could say the same about someone like Vidal (also recognised as a beast).

This is why I brought up Gerrard.  He was more reliant on athleticism than Toure ever was (Gerrard being all action, Toure being lazy off the ball). Toure was AT LEAST as good technically as Gerrard, imo better.  At least in terms of shooting. Think he had 1 year where he scored most of his direct freekicks. Passing with the outside of his foot.  Dribbling etc.  Yet we hear way more about Yaya's physical attributes than Gerrards and way less about his technical skill than Gerrard.

 

If Eric Dier was African he would he the powerful label / strong / beast etc a lot more from the media.  Same with Emre Can.  Is as much made of Romeu's strength as it was for wor Tiote?

 

Anyways I think I've made my point clearly.  Mandoon probably made it clearer. Again, it's just the way of the world and not specific to NO or football.  When you're watching games on Sky or MOTD just watch it for a black player showing technical skill and it being ignored or the commentator being way quicker to compliment a physical piece of skill than a technical one.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

There is obviously a propensity to label black players as beasts, powerful etc., but I wouldn't say it's racially motivated per se, I just think it's a lazy generalism in the way white English players are hard working, tough tackling have a go heroes. South Americans are labelled as silky or skilful and as divers. Foreign players in general are categorised as soft etc. To be fair, look at the average black footballer and he is physically bigger, stronger and quicker than his non black counterpart so while it may irk some people, I don't think it's an issue to be overly concerned with. It's more about lazy punditry and shit punditry to be honest than anything racial. I mean look at Colback, he's regarded by some as a hard working, tough tackling, Brit. In reality he's shit but does posssess the kind of stereotypes certain people look for in certain players or is perceived to have in him. Black player equals powerful, quick, athletic etc. because as a race that's what many black athletes are. Don't be ashamed of it or feel bad about it. Don't embrace it of course, but let's not get our knickers in a twist over it. This whole song about Ladaku maybe racially motivated in terms of content, but howay, if he was ginger or bald or whatever I'm sure a song would fit likewise. I just wish people of all races would be less sensitive to trivial shit basically. I know lots of black men and they all love the idea that everyone thinks they have a big cock, and to be fair some of them do, enormously so. It's a fact of life basically.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

TCD, the world's most famous footballer Pele was black and was never considered a beast or a powerhouse. For every black player that is stereotyped in that way, there is someone who isn't considered as such. It's probably more of an English stereotype by again lazy and shit pundits. I would today for example label Shearer as a beast of a CF, a powerhouse. I would never label Henry as such for example. Drogba yes, but not because he's black. I do agree it's a soft stereotype and wrong in many ways, but I don't think it's racially motivated based on x player being black. White players are generalised too, often wrongly.

[Kimbo]

Tim Sherwood and Ian Wright talking about foreign coaches taking our jerbs on the debate. Fucking hell.

[Deuce]

 

This you leffe?

 

Deuce, quick, we need to tell Semtex to delete our video we made for Newcastle.

 

too late, it's in the Cloud

[The College Dropout]

TCD, the world's most famous footballer Pele was black and was never considered a beast or a powerhouse. For every black player that is stereotyped in that way, there is someone who isn't considered as such. It's probably more of an English stereotype by again lazy and s*** pundits. I would today for example label Shearer as a beast of a CF, a powerhouse. I would never label Henry as such for example. Drogba yes, but not because he's black. I do agree it's a soft stereotype and wrong in many ways, but I don't think it's racially motivated based on x player being black. White players are generalised too, often wrongly.

 

1. Yes i've said it's mostly a media thing.

 

2. I never said it was every black player. My point is that a lot of black (usually African) technical ability is seemingly overlooked or downplayed in favour of their physical ability in the media. In turn, they become slightly under-rated as the focus is on physical rather than technical.

 

On YT look at Yaya Toure top 20 goals ever.. especially the top 4 it's Ben-Arfa, Le Tiss better in fact almost Zidane-esque, dribbling, balance, left foot. I don't think he gets that due.

 

3. Yes white players are generalised too....so what? They aren't wedded as closely to it as some African players once evidence is there. Again, the black stereotype extends beyond football so is therefore held tighter. That's why its so annoying. The evidence of technical skill is right there and you're talking about "beast"

 

Ok that is the last one.

[loki679]

Reckon TCD has it spot on tbh.  Stopped clocks and all that.

[54]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4899036/Neymar-demands-PSG-sell-Edinson-Cavani.html

 

:lol:

[Interpolic]

What a little wanker.

[Wullie]

Becoming fairly obvious that being in Messi's shadow has been even better for Neymar than was obvious on the field. Being somewhere he's quite clearly, indisputably second best has held him back from being a petulant little tosser for years, he could hardly try and pull rank with Messi like he can there.