Vinny Green Balls Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, gazza ladra said: What’s the tiebreaker? If US and Iran draw, they’re both on 3 points. Iran has -2 goal differential, US 0. I’m reading that US must win. Is that correct? (could see Iran playing for 0-0, and getting it) Iran would be on 4 points and go second....assuming Wales didn't destroy England Edited November 25, 2022 by Vinny Green Balls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, Vinny Green Balls said: Iran would be on 4 points and go second Doh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 I get what Southgate has done and appreciate him. But when you're in the middle of a match and there are blatant problems that keep resurfacing it's hard to think about things holistically. After seeing us under Howe and how he's got the best out of players nowhere near the quality of the side, it is frustrating. He doesn't seem to ever acknowledge issues or learn from mistakes either which erodes my patience with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: I can't remember what it was that I watched, but I remember a comment years ago, possibly on one of those 'remember 1996' type programmes, about how it's part of our national psyche to be valiant losers, how in a sense we'd rather go down fighting than actually win if it meant not representing a certain set of English stereotypes. Always thought it was a bit of joke and not really true, but I think about it fairly regularly now and I think it applies with Southgate. Certain people literally hate our 2nd most successful manager of all time and have invented alternate and hypothetical realities in order to justify it. technically our second most successful manager of all time cos he reached a final. but his management of that game is one of the main reasons i hate him. he hasnt learnt from it all. in my eyes none of the likes of venables, hoddle, SBR etc would have surrendered to italy the way we did and played to avoid defeat with the talent we had in the squad. he failed his biggest test. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, ElDiablo said: I get what Southgate has done and appreciate him. But when you're in the middle of a match and there are blatant problems that keep resurfacing it's hard to think about things holistically. After seeing us under Howe and how he's got the best out of players nowhere near the quality of the side, it is frustrating. He doesn't seem to ever acknowledge issues or learn from mistakes either which erodes my patience with him. snap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 I've seen so many England performances like that, where our weakness at playing the ball out from the back and through the midfield gets exposed and we end up with a very slow, predictable build up that gets no-where fast. We need to have a bit more faith in our more technically gifted players, so I'd have Foden in for Sterling, who just doesn't use his brain. Rice doesn't show enough confidence or initiative, but with Phillips still apparently unfit, I'm not sure of the alternative. Sad to say, Trippier struggled defensively against the Americans' pace, and neither full back contributed well to the attack in open play. The injuries to James and Chilwell have hurt us a bit. Bellingham had a poor game but all the midfield seemed to be very isolated from one another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Southgate really left Foden and Wilson on the bench at 0-0 and brought on Henderson to shore up the midfield the arrogance here after the fact is amusing too, don’t deflect it on shit Lebron Jokes… to be clear our left side of defense consist of two guys at Fulham, our other center back is considered “the best mls center back” (whatever that means) and Dest is allegedly another Yedlin to you lot (you know, a player who loved Rafa, our club and hated Bruce but people still want to call out). Get some rest, direct the anger to Gareth! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) can accept players being off form or struggling in a game. its then the coach's job to change things. we're allowed 5 subs nowadays. he could have changed half the team, the whole sytem, and started doing it sooner. there's obviously no plan b that has been coached into them. has southgate actually improved over the past 5 years? the quality of our squad has. Edited November 25, 2022 by huss9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kanji said: Southgate really left Foden and Wilson on the bench at 0-0 and brought on Henderson to shore up the midfield the arrogance here after the fact is amusing too, don’t deflect it on shit Lebron Jokes… to be clear our left side of defense consist of two guys at Fulham, our other center back is considered “the best mls center back” (whatever that means) and Dest is allegedly another Yedlin to you lot (you know, a player who loved Rafa, our club and hated Bruce but people still want to call out). Get some rest, direct the anger to Gareth! Why doesn't Cameron-Vickers start? I feel like he is better than at least one of your centre backs, but maybe I'm wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, huss9 said: technically our second most successful manager of all time cos he reached a final. but his management of that game is one of the main reasons i hate him. he hasnt learnt from it all. in my eyes none of the likes of venables, hoddle, SBR etc would have surrendered to italy the way we did and played to avoid defeat with the talent we had in the squad. he failed his biggest test. This is one of those hypothetical realities. You don't see the contradiction in what you're saying then? Considering none of those managers even got the chance, because they fell at earlier hurdles? None of those managers weren't guilty of similar failings either. Every success can't be in spite of him while every failure is because of him. Edited November 25, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 59 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said: This is a horse shit take. The U.S. were not dross. Their midfield played well. Some real bad takes here in general. No, it’s completely accurate. The US were shite. England were fucking shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: You don't see the contradiction in what you're saying then? Considering none of those managers even got the chance, because they fell at earlier hurdles. None of those managers weren't guilty of similar failings either. Every success can't be in spite of him while every failure is because of him. Robson and Venables got ‘90s Germany for their semis. Southgate got Croatia and Denmark for his. Who you draw against really does count for something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: No, it’s completely accurate. The US were shite. England were fucking shite. Can't believe how hurt some of you are about how much better the US looked. This is painful to read man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 The US were decent, mainly in their organisation in stopping England playing through. England were awful, for some reason just didn’t engage with the opposition. Maybe because they really knew a draw would put them in control of the group. FWIW I don’t think bringing Henderson on was that bad a move. Added a bit of energy and reduced the chances of losing. Southgate is what he is. I’ll admit the Iran game got me excited, but the overall plan was always to keep it tight and bore our way to a trophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 The US probably played close to as well as they can, so I’d have to say it was a good performance. If they had put a couple of chances away and won 2-0 you wouldn’t say it was undeserved on the balance of play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, KaKa said: Can't believe how hurt some of you are about how much better the US looked. This is painful to read man I’m not hurt at all. Honestly couldn’t give a shite if England go through or not. But I don’t like being bored watching a game. That was a poor team playing a hobbled team. Unless I was watching a different game, that was a fucking boring 0-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, Kimbo said: The US probably played close to as well as they can, so I’d have to say it was a good performance. If they had put a couple of chances away and won 2-0 you wouldn’t say it was undeserved on the balance of play. The US should have won comfortably. Poor finishing cost them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 The US moved the ball extremely well through defence into midfield and then midfield ran really well and passed quickly through the middle but didn’t manage to make as much of wide positions. They were missing both a great striker and a great winger. Overall though, technically they were very impressive and an incredibly organised side. England were generally awful everywhere apart from defence. Trippier and Saka linked up well a few times early on but apart from that it was so slow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Robson and Venables got ‘90s Germany for their semis. Southgate got Croatia and Denmark for his. Who you draw against really does count for something. and went to try and actually win them, just fell short and lost on pels on each occasion. southgate is not even close to venables or SBR in terms of best england coaches. would even rate hoddle higher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, gbandit said: The US moved the ball extremely well through defence into midfield and then midfield ran really well and passed quickly through the middle but didn’t manage to make as much of wide positions. They were missing both a great striker and a great winger. Overall though, technically they were very impressive and an incredibly organised side. England were generally awful everywhere apart from defence. Trippier and Saka linked up well a few times early on but apart from that it was so slow Trippier was as bad as everyone out there - or am I deluded for thinking he’s better than that performance? That’s what so many on here seem to be implying. That it’s ‘arrogance’ to think these players can play better than the way they were set up. Shaw was timewasting with less than 10 mins to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: No, it’s completely accurate. The US were shite. England were fucking shite. To say that the U.S. midfield was shit is pretty ridiculous. Defense and midfield were very organized today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, huss9 said: and went to try and actually win them, just fell short and lost on pels on each occasion. southgate is not even close to venables or SBR in terms of best england coaches. would even rate hoddle higher. Likewise. This is the England side built from the youth teams who won the U-17 and U-20 WCs and U-19 Euros in quick succession, having the handbrake applied by the man who broke the Smoggies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, huss9 said: eh? Howe started with a winless team bottom of the league, zero confidence and no coaching for over 2 years. he got them turned round within months and brought in decent players. southgate has been there years and still has no plan b or idea how to use the few world class players that he's got. My point wasn’t about the time he’s been there, it’s more about the overreaction to a single game. There are loads of teams who have had a shit game in the group stage and gone on to win the whole thing - we did the same in the euros and reached the final. A tournament is a separate beast. Teams can go into a tournament in shit form and win it. At the end of the day we’ve drawn a game we should have won 11 v 11, but are going to go through to the knockouts regardless. Judgement should come at the end of the tournament. If we go out in the next round or quarters with a drab performance like that then fair enough, Southgate will probably have taken us as far as he can and it’s time for a change. But until that’s actually happened, let’s all just chill a little and wait and see? It’s one game, and it doesn’t necessarily define our tournament any more than the Iran game does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Robson and Venables got ‘90s Germany for their semis. Southgate got Croatia and Denmark for his. Who you draw against really does count for something. The likes of France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Brazil, Argentina were still in those tournaments. These supposedly lesser teams beat bigger teams, they come up against Southgate's England, England win and it counts for nothing. England then beat Germany in the 2nd round at the Euros, somehow still means nothing. Honestly, people go on like we were consistently up there fighting with the best of them before Southgate. It's like Iceland never happened. Edited November 25, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Southgate is a tactically limited manager, who has done a good job as England manager. It's pretty tough to argue against both of these things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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