Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[r0cafella]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Fair enough. We'll still need to outspend 3/4 of the league and be close enough to the others to challenge.

 

I fundamentally think if ownrs can prove they can pay for it - any cap in spend should be in line with the highest spending team in a league or competition,.

This would be real financial fair play hence why it’s not allowed. 

[Keegans Export]

 

 

[Jack27]

6 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

 

 

Doesn’t make for fun reading, that. (https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current)

 

 

Edited March 17 by Jack27

[Jack27]

Just now, Jack27 said:

Doesn’t make for fun reading, that. (https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current)

 

 

 

Quote

As a result, it is behind the scenes where the real shortcomings are being exposed. Despite a lot of talk, there are still no firm plans in place toexpand St James’ Park and modernise their home stadium. The results of a feasibility study are eagerly awaited and the plan is to rebuild St James’ Park but talk is cheap and easy. Doing it will be expensive and difficult.

There was also talk of a new training ground when the new owners arrived in October 2021, but this has all gone very quiet. Nothing seems to be happening on that front either as a new site has still not been identified, let alone plans drawn up. Newcastle spent around £10 million to improve their existing training br but it still falls well short of the standards of other Premier League facilities.

Where are the commercial partnerships with companies in Saudi Arabia and further afield? All the commercial team currently have to be pleased with is their new kit deal with Adidas and a new shirt sponsor with the Saudi events company Sela. More needs to be done and faster. 

Newcastle increased their revenue for 2023 from £180 million the previous year to £250.3 million. That is around £200 million less than Tottenham, who are the poorest relations of the so-called ‘Big Six’. Manchester City’s revenue is more than £700 million and that disparity in playing resources was plain to see at the Etihad on Saturday night. 

[Keegans Export]

Quote

The club’s chairman will be asking questions of more than just Howe when he conducts his departmental progress reports before the end of the season.

Certainly fair to say that it hasn't just been the on-field stuff that has disappointed this season.

[Dr.Spaceman]

[Miggys First Goal]

Heads going to roll in the summer?

[NE27]

"Where are the commercial sponsorships with companies in Saudi?"

 

Was that ever going to be a thing or just low hanging fruit for everyone to speculate? And that ignores the rushed through associated party sponsorship rules which put a quick block on any potential trial of doing that.

 

Bad results and now endless streams of "what are Newcastle owners actually doing? Where's the money? Why isn't St James' park now 100,000 capacity?"

[SUPERTOON]

Considering the Saudis supposedly sign off on every decision made, what even is there to review ?

[Scoot]

Aren't a lot of these Saudi companies in some way tied to PIF? If so, thats where the problem lies, related party transactions. 

 

Be an interesting Sumner ahead when the chairman does his yearly review.

[madras]

6 minutes ago, Scoot said:

Aren't a lot of these Saudi companies in some way tied to PIF? If so, thats where the problem lies, related party transactions. 

 

Be an interesting Sumner ahead when the chairman does his yearly review.

Will there be a "State of the United" address?

[TheBrownBottle]

32 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

He's everyone's favourite Bruce-loving WUM.  But he isn't wrong on this one.  In fact, he's spot-on for me.  

30 minutes ago, NE27 said:

"Where are the commercial sponsorships with companies in Saudi?"

 

Was that ever going to be a thing or just low hanging fruit for everyone to speculate? And that ignores the rushed through associated party sponsorship rules which put a quick block on any potential trial of doing that.

 

Bad results and now endless streams of "what are Newcastle owners actually doing? Where's the money? Why isn't St James' park now 100,000 capacity?"

 

11 minutes ago, Scoot said:

Aren't a lot of these Saudi companies in some way tied to PIF? If so, thats where the problem lies, related party transactions. 

 

Be an interesting Sumner ahead when the chairman does his yearly review.

Related party transactions aren't banned - hence why Sela is on our tops (Sela is PIF-owned).  They've just been painfully slow in getting what should have been a shitload of deals done.  It isn't a massive surprise to anyone familiar with the workings of the KSA state - it is ponderous and inefficient (the least of the concerns tbf).  

[TheBrownBottle]

34 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

Heads going to roll in the summer?

Who's heads?  The issue is the ownership

[Tsunami]

My grasp on some of this is sketchy at best, probably simplistic and always seems to lead me to believe we’re being screwed as we are a threat to the status quo.

 

Does liquidity not come into this at all? The American owned big clubs can spend more or less at will due to the ffp/ fmv rules, saddle clubs with debt and if they ever leave make their profit upon any sale of the club while new owners may well be pouring more debt on that club through financing the purchase?

 

In theory our owners could pay a bond to cover “loses”, liquidity doesn’t come into at all and when the time comes they could commit to write off any or majority of debt. Clearly against ffp rules as they are but the outcome would be completely in line with protecting the club itself.

 

We’re actively being stifled; it’s very uncomfortable for other clubs and I agree with TCD that all clubs should be allowed to spend in line with the highest spenders in the league if they can show they can afford it.

[andyc35i]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

This is a nonsense view imo.

 

Solanke would cost £50m+.

 

You want to be able to splash cash without being accused of buying the league. But unfortunately, you still end up buying success.

Yes and that’s the only way to have sustained success, you have to buy your way to it.
 

I get the contradiction. But I’m just after realistic spending that we could afford to service and not the type that means we’re blowing everyone out of the water. We need a left back, I want us to buy Alphonso Davies, but I know that’s only going to happen if we overpay and I wouldn’t want that 

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Think overall that’s a very fair article looking at wider club infrastructure issues. I’ve been disappointed at how slow the progress has been on a new training ground. They’ve surely had enough time to get this project off the ground.
 

Presumably we’re looking at 4+ years away for anything to be operational. 
 

 

[The College Dropout]

55 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

Heads going to roll in the summer?

The fall guy is already on the way out. 

[AngelofTheFourth]

Whatever happens I do hope that the we can be better at the scouting. Yes FFP has been annoying but our scouting and negotiating has not been good at all. Apart from Bruno a lot of the players aren’t now worth much more than we brought them for. 
 

A big concern was the Harvey Barnes transfer. Why did we pay €44mil for him when Spurs got Maddison for around the same amount. We are talking about buying from a team that has just been relegated and needed to sell player due to ffp and somehow we still overspent. Some of the recent deals have been questionable and need to be better. Brighton consistently seem to find hidden gems. West Ham brought kudus (who is younger than Barnes) and paqueta from 40m. I would say both are worth a lot more than that now. When you  look at Aston Villa Ollie Watkins cost then 34m! Douglas Luiz cost them 16m! 
 

why can’t we negotiate well and also find players that aren’t going to mess us up when it comes to ffp. It’s all now added up and now we are unable to spend without selling assets which will now most likely be Bruno. 
 

 

[SUPERTOON]

Anyone else prefer to see the Saudis take more of a day to day interest in running us ?

[Stifler]

And he wonders why he gets slated?

[Keegans Export]

1 minute ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

Whatever happens I do hope that the we can be better at the scouting. Yes FFP has been annoying but our scouting and negotiating has not been good at all. Apart from Bruno a lot of the players aren’t now worth much more than we brought them for. 
 

A big concern was the Harvey Barnes transfer. Why did we pay €44mil for him when Spurs got Maddison for around the same amount. We are talking about buying from a team that has just been relegated and needed to sell player due to ffp and somehow we still overspent. Some of the recent deals have been questionable and need to be better. Brighton consistently seem to find hidden gems. West Ham brought kudus (who is younger than Barnes) and paqueta from 40m. I would say both are worth a lot more than that now. When you  look at Aston Villa Ollie Watkins cost then 34m! Douglas Luiz cost them 16m! 
 

why can’t we negotiate well and also find players that aren’t going to mess us up when it comes to ffp. It’s all now added up and now we are unable to spend without selling assets which will now most likely be Bruno. 
 

 

I think if you line up our best transfer business with the likes of Villa and West Ham we're at least on a par imo 

[The College Dropout]

That 30-45m bracket is so key.  It’s difficult because you can get big failures and successes. 
 

We’ve gone a bit more ‘safe’. We’ve spent more on Tonali and Isak to try and guarantee quality. And signed Barnes for what is already likely to be his peak value. And often when we’ve paid in that region it’s been a premium for young English talent.  
 

As much as I like Botman. There’s a bit of a ceiling in potential value for a Slow CB. 

 

All clubs can point to other clubs doing smart business. But you do look at Paqueta, Kudus, Palmer  - and wonder what did the recruitment team say about them? Highly regarded well known players.  I’m certain they were all thoroughly scouted. What did they say about them?

 

I thought Paqueta looked slow and slight. But like Bruno - he’s got that dog in him. He’s a competitor. Didn’t see much of Palmer but I always thought Kudus was a talent and positinally flexible. I wonder what the club ruled.  
 

 

This isn’t hindsight regarding the summer. All the transfers felt like a bit of a premium.  Not the type where we could double our money in a couple years. 

[OverThere]

Barnes and Hall seems strange buys, considering LW and LB are 2 areas we have a number options.

 

 

Edited March 17 by OverThere

[AngelofTheFourth]

7 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

I think if you line up our best transfer business with the likes of Villa and West Ham we're at least on a par imo 

Its not the personal that the problem it’s the amount we are spending on our players.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

Its not the personal that the problem it’s the amount we are spending on our players.

 

1 minute ago, AngelofTheFourth said:

Its not the personal that the problem it’s the amount we are spending on our players.

Tbf Villa spent Isak money on Diaby. He doesn’t look a massive talent from the little I’ve seen.  He’s lost his place to Bailey (who himself has taken a few years to get up to speed - I always rated him though).