Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

 1)What so many seem to forget is that to complete in European football you have to be granted a licence. To gain a licence you have and will have to comply with UEFAs FFP (FSR) which aren’t stricter than the PLs PSR or amended version which ,from what I have read , will be easier to  meet than UEFAs rules. So why would any club with aspirations to play in Europe vote to get rid of rules that they almost certainly meet by default ?

2) What makes that more difficult dips that UEFA requires National Governing bodies to have in place a form of PSR if there isn’t one in place then the national body aren’t empowered to issue any UEFA  licences which by default would almost certainly mean that English’s clubs couldn’t play in Europe.

3) Which Court would you challenge the regulations? Please don’t say  CAT. ? 
4) This sort of matter simply isn’t , based on the White Paper , going to fall under any Regulators remit.

 

Nobody has forgotten the UEFA issue, as I've mentioned before UEFA are much less of an issue as they dont dole out draconian punishments.

 

PSG have lost 600m euro over the past 3 years and they haven't been banned yet.

 

They had Neymar, Messi and Mbappe on the books at the same time ffs.

[madras]

12 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

It’s not really hindsight, we are less than 48 hours away from failing to meet PSR. We should have bought in money way before now.

And that gets me thinking, getting in a seasons training ground sponsor, training kit sponsor etc would have been easy even under FMV, looks like we could have sold Trippier (I originally all thought he didn't agree terms)....... are we that far off or are we deliberately looking to trigger it ?

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:12 by madras

[Armchair Pundit]

Incidentally, seeing as points are only influential within the league standings (and we're not winning the league anytime soon), we could take the points hit, reinforce to a better level and concentrate on cups, seeing as they automatically get into Europe as well. The only problem I foresee with that would be obvious loss in funds from final league position. I'd think the players at the club, even the top ones, aren't daft enough to think we'll win the league in the next season, they just want progress I'd hope.

 

(Edit): Mind you, it's pipedreams really, we all know the league would find some way of punishing us more than anyone else, they're just looking for an excuse. I say break out the world's most expensive legal teams, we can certainly afford that.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:16 by Armchair Pundit

[madras]

1 hour ago, TRC said:

Unpopular opinion maybe, but we know the limits it's 105m over 3 seasons, making a loss of 35m a season when teams generate 100s of millions is more than fair. 

Not when some teams have a massive e head start.

[Nucasol]

Just now, madras said:

Not when some teams have a massive e head start.

Yep. It’s absolute bullshit. An arbitrary number that benefits the Top 6 incumbents and hinders the rest.

[Fezzle]

16 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Regardless of what we could and should have done, and regardless of the ridiculous rules in place, my enthusiasm for a new football season is at an all time low.

[Numbers]

1 minute ago, madras said:

Not when some teams have a massive e head start.

Some clubs have been afforded the time to build out their teams and academys no expense spared,  they can now churn out 10-20 mil young uns to keep them within PSR. Thats why this whole thing is bollocks, everyone outside of them are now effectively their feeder clubs.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, Fezzle said:

It’s an indictment of how football is more dominated with FFP/PSR etc, not blaming it on the club at all. I used to love the transfer window and really look forward to the start of the season. Not so much with all the nonsense surrounding it nowadays.

[Fezzle]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

It’s an indictment of how football is more dominated with FFP/PSR etc, not blaming it on the club at all. I used to love the transfer window and really look forward to the start of the season. Not so much with all the nonsense surrounding it nowadays.

You said regardless of all that though as if our future was completely fucked

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, Fezzle said:

You said regardless of all that though as if our future was completely fucked

Aye I worded it badly, I basically meant I’m sick of football no longer really being about football.

[Ikon]

3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Aye I worded it badly, I basically meant I’m sick of football no longer really being about football.

It was obvious to me what you meant. It’s alright to be up/down about football when you care. 

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, Fezzle said:

You said regardless of all that though as if our future was completely fucked

We are fucked unless the rules change or we can grow our revenue massively. Our rate of growth has to surpass that of the sky6 if not we are falling behind. 
 

think about it. 

[Jackie Broon]

13 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Maybe. But why would Adidas do underhand dealings? Sela are a legitimate business and we are a high potential club. 
 

By circumvention I’m talking doing something we wouldn’t otherwise do because of PSR. Eg selling the stadium. A thousand official partners.  Deals with Adidas as a partner is not circumvention. 
 

There’s no evidence of a proxy war.  Others are fighting. And we are not. Seemingly. 
 

Chelsea exploited loopholes from the start with the 8 year contracts. We could’ve done that. We can sell property too. We could do 20 999,999 deals. Chelsea even have a fake main sponsor. It’s risky and aggressive. That’s not our approach.  Success should come but the road will be a long one - unless others do our dirty work or we pivot approach. Villa and Forest owners have come out against the PL. We’ve not done that either. 

 

We don't own the land St. James' Park is on, we can't sell the stadium.

 

The PL have closed / severely slowed down the avenue of lots of partnership deals. Each deal would have to either be genuine or demonstrated to be FMV.

 

There have been signs of us throwing spanners in the works from behind the scenes, such as the spending cap proposal.

[Wolfcastle]

Always wondered how it felt to support someone other than Rangers/Celtic in Scotland.

The hopelessness, dreamlessness and pointlessness of the unbridgeable gap outside of a one-off miracle and them hovering around any finds you unearth.

Thanks to PSR/FFP, like every other club that wasn't by an empty chair when the clubs by the empty chairs turned the music off, I wonder no more.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:30 by Wolfcastle

[Terraloon]

10 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Nobody has forgotten the UEFA issue, as I've mentioned before UEFA are much less of an issue as they dont dole out draconian punishments.

 

PSG have lost 600m euro over the past 3 years and they haven't been banned yet.

 

They had Neymar, Messi and Mbappe on the books at the same time ffs.

The 2023 version of UFEAs regulations will ultimately impact far more on clubs. PSG were fined €63 million last season and should they breech again so the penalty cranks up. Imagine if the PL had the same approach of 25% of sums due to be distributed after year one fail, 50% the next year, 75% should it happen 3 times 
Clubs have been banned from competing in Europe not sure that isn’t far more drocanian than say having points deducted . 
Having said all that my point about UEFA is that the PL has to have a process akin to FSR in place so 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

24 minutes ago, Boey_Jarton said:

The fact that a football board is starting to discuss Financial Reporting Standards 102,  Section 23 Revenue Recognition, demonstrates the complete nonsense that the premier league has got itself into.

 

 

tbf that one is a belta.

 

round the campfire, beer in hand level conversation is section 23

[timeEd32]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Tbf we didn’t know we were heading towards failing PSR. The club must’ve known it was a real opportunity which is why I think we courted transfer offers. Eales put out that message and there was a rush of bids for a few of our players. 
 

My best guess is that we thought we could make up the gap in league prize money?
 

Knowing what we know now. It was a mistake. 

 

We were 10th in mid January and in awful form. We can’t have been banking anything on merit payments. The three places we ended up gaining is worth about £9m.

 

Similar to what I said yesterday — if we didn’t know we were failing PSR in January then we are actually run by morons. I just really don’t think we are.

 

The only plausible scenario I can think of where we’re actually in a bit of a mess is if we had planned to sell one of Miggy / Wilson / Trippier (or Anderson) to balance the books and the market completely dried up.

[Fezzle]

12 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

We are fucked unless the rules change or we can grow our revenue massively. Our rate of growth has to surpass that of the sky6 if not we are falling behind. 
 

think about it. 

Must have missed the decade of circling the drain sick of the sight of football. I'm thinking about getting to see tonali Bruno, Gordon, isak etc together and excited how it goes. Fucking ridiculous as that is during our tragic existence as a club

[r0cafella]

Just now, Fezzle said:

Must have missed the decade of circling the drain sick of the sight of football. I'm thinking about getting to see tonali Bruno, Gordon, isak etc together and excited how it goes. Fucking ridiculous as that is during our tragic existence as a club

You’re missing the point but it’s all good. 

[Fezzle]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

You’re missing the point but it’s all good. 

Nope 

[Hughesy]

Staggeringly bad management of our finances if we knew about a potential breach in January and didn’t sell then. There was no realistic way we were going to get into the CL in January, so it wasn’t worth the gamble.

 

Now we are scrambling around with a few days to go and everyone knows we need cash quickly. Embarrassing stuff.

[Wolfcastle]

1 hour ago, duo said:

I would rather we just take the hit than dismantle our squad - rules might change come August anyway

Its not even close for me.

We'd be no less likely to challenge for the CL with a good team and points handicap than we would by selling our better players, being a modest team without a points handicap - plus we'd get to see better football and more wins.

Its an absolute farce they've created. That they think its worth all this just to keep certain clubs happy and entitled.

[The College Dropout]

40 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

We were 10th in mid January and in awful form. We can’t have been banking anything on merit payments. The three places we ended up gaining is worth about £9m.

 

Similar to what I said yesterday — if we didn’t know we were failing PSR in January then we are actually run by morons. I just really don’t think we are.

 

The only plausible scenario I can think of where we’re actually in a bit of a mess is if we had planned to sell one of Miggy / Wilson / Trippier (or Anderson) to balance the books and the market completely dried up.

This is fair. 
 

We are in a bad spot. But not the worst spot. 
 

The worst thing about our approach is that we’ve left it so late. When Villa sold Luiz we had few outgoing links. I thought we were ok. Now there’s multiple stories a day.  

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

Nobody in their right mind can believe that our board have left it this late to balance the books, they are far too switched on for what's happening. I am convinced though that we are desperate to raise £30-50Mish to create wiggle room going forward for future windows and this is all strategic for the long/medium plan and not to balance this years. There have been no knee jerk transfers, galactico signings or desperate moves to date. (Even Chris Woods was a strategic signing that worked!). Have confidence that they know what they are doing.

If we raise funds before Sunday we increase the £105M loss balance gap for next season's 3 year limit and hopefully 25/26 will have a different psr requirement going forward. PSR won't change mid season so this may be strategic to give us headroom going forward for the short term for next year. I am sure all of the untouchables will remain in black and white this season and I'm also convinced that Wilson, Trips and Miggy will all be offloaded to Saudi in July when their transfer window opens, all for decent money, so this weekend will be purely to maximise the next two seasons spend and the Saudi sales will cover for next season. Any sales this weekend will be for maximum paper profit with Anderson and Longstaff most at risk and all will be player swap type deals for players we actually want. Have faith. Everything up to now has been right with the board.

[ExiledGeordie]

Football and the premier league mainly has become a farce thanks to PSR.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 13:21 by ExiledGeordie