Scott McTominay

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, STM said:

 

Turning my point on its head but I understand where you are coming from. Scott McTominay is of a much higher standard than Cleverly IMO.

Where would you rank him?

 

Darren Fletcher level? He’s behind that imo.  

[gbandit]

Absolutely nowhere near Darren Fletcher

[Mazzy]

Darron Gibson

[TheDarkKnight]

Nowhere near Darren Fletcher.

 

People forget just how good Darren Fletcher was.

 

He was in the EPL 2009/10 team of the year and was the closest thing to Roy Keane that Manchester United have had.

 

In that season he was amazing. I remember an Arsenal match where he pretty much dominated their midfield single-handed.

 

Sadly, illness robbed Fletcher of what would have been his peak years.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by TheDarkKnight

[The College Dropout]

I agree. Just trying to place where STM ranks McTominay in the homegrown Man U CM's rankings.

 

 

Prime Nicky Butt was a v. good player. Terrible human being mind, been arrested more than once for domestic abuse.

[Froggy]

53 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I agree. Just trying to place where STM ranks McTominay in the homegrown Man U CM's rankings.

 

 

Prime Nicky Butt was a v. good player. Terrible human being mind, been arrested more than once for domestic abuse.

 

Butt/Fletcher etc. had the luxury of playing with world class players beside them. Something to factor in when judging McTominay in that regard.

[KaKa]

37 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Butt/Fletcher etc. had the luxury of playing with world class players beside them. Something to factor in when judging McTominay in that regard.

 

Not to mention they all played under a top manager too that played a style that suited their skillset.

[The Prophet]

Probably starting at the weekend with Sabitzer potentially injured. 

[Froggy]

25 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Probably starting at the weekend with Sabitzer potentially injured. 

 

He would probably start anyway even if Sabitzer was fit.

 

Sabitzer being out would be the return of McFred.

[hakka]

Evey time I see this thread bumped I feel sick.

 

(I realise I'm part of the problem admitting this)

[The College Dropout]

FWIW Butt looked like a talented player whose legs had completely gone by the time he came to NUFC. But he had more ability than McTominay for me. 

[Holmesy]

This rumour is like a turd that won't flush. Might have to resort to drastic measures, fish it out by hand and stick it in the neighbour's wheelie bin. 

[Chris_R]

On 25/03/2023 at 22:14, TheDarkKnight said:

One "bright spark" Manchester United fan says that "Scott McTominay hides from the ball", next thing we know, a few other people say it, then a few more people, until it becomes the popular thing to say.

 

Really? I thought it was from videos of him actually hiding from the ball. Like this:

 

 

I'm no expert on Man U, and don't watch them in general or McTominay in particular, so maybe these videos (there are more) are not representative. But I also don't think it's just someone saying it and it mysteriously becoming a thing with absolutely no substance. Here he deliberately positions himself behind the attacker, quite literally hiding, so he cannot receive a pass.

[Froggy]

3 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

Really? I thought it was from videos of him actually hiding from the ball. Like this:

 

 

I'm no expert on Man U, and don't watch them in general or McTominay in particular, so maybe these videos (there are more) are not representative. But I also don't think it's just someone saying it and it mysteriously becoming a thing with absolutely no substance. Here he deliberately positions himself behind the attacker, quite literally hiding, so he cannot receive a pass.

 

Never bought the whole hiding from the ball thing myself to be honest. This is a 20 second clip. I could probably find one of Messi doing the same thing for 20 seconds.

[SteV]

The theory that a footballer with substantial appearances in the PL and at International level (even if it is Scotland) actively ‘hides from the ball’ on any kind of regular basis is total madness.

 

I can’t say of watched anything like enough of McTominay to be offering a considered opinion on him personally, and it might be that his positioning to receive the ball is frequently poor, but to think that he’s consistently deliberately doing it to avoid getting the ball is laughable.

[The College Dropout]

Jack Colback has 200+ PL appearances. He hides from the ball. Shirks responsibility. Doesn't want the ball. Doesn't try to do anything substantial with it.

[SteV]

15 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Jack Colback has 200+ PL appearances. He hides from the ball. Shirks responsibility. Doesn't want the ball. Doesn't try to do anything substantial with it.

He doesn’t, we just like to make out that he does because we don’t like him. 
 

And not doing anything substantial with it is a different argument (I’d actually probably agree with you on that in terms of Colback).

 

He’s also spent his entire PL career in the mid to lower reaches where the majority of the time there’s less chance/expectation to get on the ball and be progressive, as opposed to a team challenging towards the top end.

[Mike]

Is there actually a link or are we shitting out of our mouths for 11 pages?

[Eveready]

I’m not saying he hides from the ball all the time (and by saying ‘hide from the ball’, like I assume others are, I mean not showing for the ball).  But what is he doing in that clip if he’s not hiding?

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Eveready

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, SteV said:

He doesn’t, we just like to make out that he does because we don’t like him. 
 

And not doing anything substantial with it is a different argument (I’d actually probably agree with you on that in terms of Colback).

 

He’s also spent his entire PL career in the mid to lower reaches where the majority of the time there’s less chance/expectation to get on the ball and be progressive, as opposed to a team challenging towards the top end.

His stats will probably tell you he rarely gives the ball away and has a 90-95% pass completion rate. However, look at him playing with your eyes and you see a guy who almost always passes sideways or backwards, rarely contributes to any attacking move, doesn't score, doesn't assist and won't take the ball under pressure. I'd argue any league 1 or championship midfielder could do the same in a PL team. 

There are similarities with Scott McT (especially looking at that video) - if he's not prepared to take a pass under pressure to either get his teammate out of trouble or move the ball forward quickly with a one touch pass, he's essentially hiding from the ball. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Holmesy

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Look at his stats and they will tell you he rarely gives the ball away and has a 90-95% pass completion rate. Look at him playing with your eyes and you see a guy who almost always passes sideways or backwards, rarely contributes to any attacking move, doesn't score, doesn't assist and won't take the ball under pressure. He's just a body filling a space in a team.

 

Stick him in a progressive, dominating side and he wouldn't know what the fuck to do.

If he’s passing sideways and backwards, he must be getting the ball and not hiding from it….

 

Someone not contributing much/anything in possession is significantly different to actively not making yourself available to receive it.

 

Anyway, we’re veering away from the topic here as we won’t be signing Jack Colback (again) thankfully.

[Holmesy]

Just now, SteV said:

If he’s passing sideways and backwards, he must be getting the ball and not hiding from it….

 

Someone not contributing much/anything in possession is significantly different to actively not making yourself available to receive it.

 

Anyway, we’re veering away from the topic here as we won’t be signing Jack Colback (again) thankfully.

No player hides completely for 90 minutes though. It's about if/when you do hide.

If you never show for the ball when you or your teammates are under pressure, you're hiding when it matters most. I suppose passing backwards and sideways thing is a moot point but it's another characteristic of the type of player who hides from the ball 

[sushimonster85]

Without wanting to get into the pros and cons (for the record I don't think he'd be a great signing but I also don't think we will sign him) of Scott McTominay, it's totally normal for the opposition forward to block off the passing lane to the deeper CM to prevent a team transitioning through the centre. If you look in that video you can see the attacker glance over his shoulder at times to check where McTominay is. This happens to Bruno constantly. Watch when the ball is with Botman or Schar. Bruno is either totally cut off, or has a guy right on his arse anticipating the ball coming into him. 

 

Should McTominay's movement be better to try and make himself available to receive the ball? Yep, but I'm pretty sure that's more down to him being a bit shit rather than him actually 'hiding'. 

[hakka]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Is there actually a link or are we shitting out of our mouths for 11 pages?

 

Get this awful thread locked.

[TheDarkKnight]

4 hours ago, Chris_R said:

 

Really? I thought it was from videos of him actually hiding from the ball. Like this:

 

 

I'm no expert on Man U, and don't watch them in general or McTominay in particular, so maybe these videos (there are more) are not representative. But I also don't think it's just someone saying it and it mysteriously becoming a thing with absolutely no substance. Here he deliberately positions himself behind the attacker, quite literally hiding, so he cannot receive a pass.

 

Yes. I've seen that video. It was posted on Redcafe by a person who has an agenda against McTominay. The video was also created by a person who share the same agenda.

 

There 20 outfield players on a finite field. If you think all 20 players are buzzing around for 90 minutes, attempting to find space... no. Doesn't happen.

 

I watched the England game just yesterday. Rice and Henderson were sometimes in the line between their team mate and the opposition. Does it mean that they hide?

 

It happens with every player in every match.

 

Does McTominay come come deep for the ball? Not really, but neither does Rice, etc.

 

If a player hides from the ball it would surely reflect on their average touches per match. McTominay got just as touches of the ball as Fred, last season.

 

That in itself debunks the "hides from the ball" rhetoric.