Scott McTominay

[elbee909]

McBomination.

[Whitley mag]

He’s fucking shite 2 goals against part time halloumi munching footballers from Cyprus doesn’t change anything.

Apologies Nicos Papavasiliou fucking legend.

[Cronky]

6 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

Well, you've seen him more than I have, so I can't claim to be an expert. But I would say that he isn’t hiding, either.

 

Some players have different abilities. Spacial awareness is an ability that you can't teach. Yes, you can study videos, etc, but it's akin to a person playing Medal of Honour, etc. Put them put on the front-line, they'll crumble.

 

Look at Haaland. People might think he scores so many because of his finishing or his physique or his pace. It isn't. His movement is incredible. Watch him, he's always 5 seconds ahead of the defenders.

 

Look at Oliver Burke. He has the same physique as Haaland. He's just as fast. But when Burke steps out on a pitch his brain goes out to lunch.

 

Spacial awareness is the same as movement. Midfielders like Pirlo, Scholes and Busquets, etc, have/had so much time on the ball because their innate movement is incredible.

 

McTominay's spacial awarenes has improved under EtH, but it's never going to be amazing.

 

I think we can all agree that Erik ten Hag is a good manager. He doesn't want to sell McTominay. There's reasons for that. The main one is that McTominay can be trusted.

 

 

 

 

Actually, Jack Colback didn't hide IMO, and I was on the painful end of many a bruising argument on here about him.

 

Interesting what you say about 'spacial awareness'. The prime example of that for me was Dalglish, who despite his lack of pace was something of a magnet for the ball, and always seemed to receive the ball in space.

 

I also remember a game against your lot which I think we lost 6-2. Scholes was a one-paced player, but somehow we never got anywhere near him all game.

[TRon]

9 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

Well, you've seen him more than I have, so I can't claim to be an expert. But I would say that he isn’t hiding, either.

 

Some players have different abilities. Spacial awareness is an ability that you can't teach. Yes, you can study videos, etc, but it's akin to a person playing Medal of Honour, etc. Put them put on the front-line, they'll crumble.

 

Look at Haaland. People might think he scores so many because of his finishing or his physique or his pace. It isn't. His movement is incredible. Watch him, he's always 5 seconds ahead of the defenders.

 

Look at Oliver Burke. He has the same physique as Haaland. He's just as fast. But when Burke steps out on a pitch his brain goes out to lunch.

 

Spacial awareness is the same as movement. Midfielders like Pirlo, Scholes and Busquets, etc, have/had so much time on the ball because their innate movement is incredible.

 

McTominay's spacial awarenes has improved under EtH, but it's never going to be amazing.

 

I think we can all agree that Erik ten Hag is a good manager. He doesn't want to sell McTominay. There's reasons for that. The main one is that McTominay can be trusted.

 

 

 

 

Jack Colback is an absolute master of hiding from the ball. How I define a player who hides is one who will make a safe pass when it comes to him, but will never make the run to get the return. FWIW, I never considered McTominay as someone who hid from the ball, he does seem to press quite aggressively, so I can see why he might appeal to Howe, my question is whether he can actually use the ball, or retain it under pressure himself.

[Kid Icarus]

Jack Colback either absolutely did hide or was the single worst footballer I've ever seen for being screened by opposition midfielders.

[The College Dropout]

Colback definitely hid. 
 

 

By hide I mean he didn’t make himself available for the ball a lot of the time.  He wouldn’t show for it.  And when he got it, played it safe and didn’t show for it again.  
 

Tiote (RIP) always showed for the ball and tbf the opposition let him.  Colback didn’t. Moussa Sissoko for all the criticism.  Wanted the ball and got on it. Jenas as a player, didn’t show for the ball enough, demand to be on it and push his passing. Scott Parker never hid, he just wasn’t particularly talented.  Gini was very talented but even at Liverpool he was criticised for hiding.  He also didn’t demand the ball enough.  For all his technical limitations Henderson never hid

[TheDarkKnight]

6 hours ago, Cronky said:

 

Actually, Jack Colback didn't hide IMO, and I was on the painful end of many a bruising argument on here about him.

 

Interesting what you say about 'spacial awareness'. The prime example of that for me was Dalglish, who despite his lack of pace was something of a magnet for the ball, and always seemed to receive the ball in space.

 

I also remember a game against your lot which I think we lost 6-2. Scholes was a one-paced player, but somehow we never got anywhere near him all game.

 

Yeah. Great example.

 

Xavi and Iniesta and Zinedine were three others. Neither blessed with pace, but it always seemed like they had an eternity on the ball. It's like they have an in-built radar. It's a skill.

 

Yeah, Scholes was definitely another.

[TheDarkKnight]

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Jack Colback is an absolute master of hiding from the ball. How I define a player who hides is one who will make a safe pass when it comes to him, but will never make the run to get the return. FWIW, I never considered McTominay as someone who hid from the ball, he does seem to press quite aggressively, so I can see why he might appeal to Howe, my question is whether he can actually use the ball, or retain it under pressure himself.

 

I get what you're saying, but I detest the term "hiding".

 

Some players are just more intelligent than others. It had nothing to do with hiding or bravery, etc. A Good example Is James Milner. Not the greatest player in the world, but his football IQ was absolute top notch.

 

Yeah. When McTominay was keeping Casemiro out of the team his high press and tackling were superb.

 

Is he going to open up defences? Definitely not. But a team is like a jigsaw puzzle, you need different shapes and sizes in order to complete the puzzle.

 

I remember David Batty back in the day. I doubt he had one assist in his whole career, but he was invaluable as a destroyer and a recycler.

[jackyboy]

I always felt that Gini hid, both here and at Liverpool. For a player with so much ability he just didn't hurt the opposition as much as he was capable of doing 

[STM]

Don't be this guy. McTominay wouldnt have been someone I would have targeted but we have real football people at the top of our club now.

 

I'd imagine if I was sitting in a room with Ashworth and Howe and asked them why we wanted McTominay, they would have a 20 minute presentation prepared, which would go into good detail the reasons why they think he's a good signing.

 

It's not entirely obvious the reasons why we are looking at him but it's probably something to do with:

 

Nationality

Pedigree

Price

Age

Physical ability

Experience 

Versatility

Personality

 

And while one might argue that 20/30m is too much for McTominay. Its high time we realised that 20/30m is no longer big money for a top 8 midfielder, who could serve the club for 7/8 years and if we did decide to move him on, might get 50% of that back.

 

Also, I'm 100% convinced we go big this summer. If McTominay is followed by a Maddison etc, it might look decent business.

 

 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

2 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Jack Colback either absolutely did hide or was the single worst footballer I've ever seen for being screened by opposition midfielders.

I remember watching Cack Jockback and asking myself what is he actually supposed to be good at? He wasn’t particularly athletic, didn’t have a great passing range and his shooting wasn’t great either. I remember thinking at the time that every kid released from an academy plying their trade in the Northern League, must’ve justifiably asked what did he have that I didn’t? 

[STM]

I've got 10 year olds in my U10s side with better footballing brains and skill than Jack Colback. He wasn't even a physical specimen. Really weird.

[Froggy]

Big chief has come in and written 20 essays about how good McTominay is and not ventured anywhere else on the forum. I love the hustle.

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Big chief has come in and written 20 essays about how good McTominay is and not ventured anywhere else on the forum. I love the hustle.

Do you think he goes to games?

[Skeletor]

18 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Big chief has come in and written 20 essays about how good McTominay is and not ventured anywhere else on the forum. I love the hustle.

 

Great fiction writer for sure.

[rebelrouser]

1 hour ago, STM said:

a top 8 midfielder

?

[LV]

43 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Big chief has come in and written 20 essays about how good McTominay is and not ventured anywhere else on the forum. I love the hustle.

Almost like he’s trying to sell something 

[Kimbo]

Lets face it, Man Utd are always on TV and we've all seen him play dozens of times. We've seen enough to make a reasoned judgement.

[The College Dropout]

In every profession people shirk responsibility. In football, it is most obvious with central midfielders. It’s obvious when they don’t want to get on the ball. 
 

Also stylistically. I don’t want us to be that type of team. 

[TRon]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Colback definitely hid. 
 

 

By hide I mean he didn’t make himself available for the ball a lot of the time.  He wouldn’t show for it.  And when he got it, played it safe and didn’t show for it again.  
 

Tiote (RIP) always showed for the ball and tbf the opposition let him.  Colback didn’t. Moussa Sissoko for all the criticism.  Wanted the ball and got on it. Jenas as a player, didn’t show for the ball enough, demand to be on it and push his passing. Scott Parker never hid, he just wasn’t particularly talented.  Gini was very talented but even at Liverpool he was criticised for hiding.  He also didn’t demand the ball enough.  For all his technical limitations Henderson never hid

 

Tiote is the best example of a midfielder who never hid. He used to get pelters from a section of the fans, but I loved that he used to seem to be everywhere demanding the ball, especially in our side where a lot of players tended to go missing.

[STM]

29 minutes ago, rebelrouser said:

?

Well he's played loads of games for a side that finished 3rd, amongst other top 6 finishes. I thought if I argued he was a top 4 player, I'd undoubtedly get push back.

 

Let's not fall into the trap of saying that just because someone isn't world class or even an elite level player means they are shite and don't have worth.

 

I've seen plenty of "decent" players contribute to league winning sides over the years.

 

Just saying "he's shite man", is disingenuous and gets us nowhere IMO.

[The College Dropout]

Tom Cleverley won the premier league and played a fair amount. Never been a top 6 player.  Ever.  

[Shearergol]

17 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Tiote is the best example of a midfielder who never hid. He used to get pelters from a section of the fans, but I loved that he used to seem to be everywhere demanding the ball, especially in our side where a lot of players tended to go missing.

Fucking Tiote man, miss him a lot. Used to accept the ball with 2 players marking him 😍

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Shearergol said:

Fucking Tiote man, miss him a lot. Used to accept the ball with 2 players marking him 😍

He thought he was Patrick Vieira and Toure rolled into one.

[STM]

44 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Tom Cleverley won the premier league and played a fair amount. Never been a top 6 player.  Ever.  

 

Turning my point on its head but I understand where you are coming from. Scott McTominay is of a much higher standard than Cleverly IMO.