Scott McTominay

[Stal]

15 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Hi all. Manchester United and Scotland fan here. Just signed up to give my honest assessment.

 

I'm not entirely sure of your policy on members from rivals, so this might be my first and final post.

 

McTominay isn't an anchorman (no 6). He is more like a box-to-box midfielder. These days midfielders are boxed in and told to do one specific job, so box-to-box midfielders are obsolete, which is one of the reasons why McTominay is so polarized.

 

As for this "he hides from the ball" thing. It's been said for about 3 years and I'm still not clear what it means. How can a player hide from the ball? Sneak off and sit on the bench, without anyone noticing? Hide behind the goals?

 

One Manchester United fan came out with that line and it just snowballed into a ball the size of a glacier.

 

Just yesterday, he made himself available dozens of times, and he wasn't picked out. It's hardly his fault if his team-mates don't pass to him.

 

Besides, let me give you an example of the general online Manchester United fan. On RedCafe (their no 1 site) they have a thread dedicated to Frenkie De Jong. It has close to 2k posts of United fans salivating over him and fawning over him.

 

Even though he is a Barcelona player and will probably never join Manchester United.

 

On RedCafe there's also individual threads dedicated to every squad member. Each thread is full of Manchester United fans criticising and tearing apart their own players. They are the most toxic group of fans.

 

They usually have a couple of scapegoats at a time. Back in the day it was Fletcher and O'Shea. The previous ones were Lingard and Pogba. The recent scapegoats are McTominay and Maguire. When those two leave, the scapegoats will probably be Fred and Antony.

 

Every player gets it in the neck, though, even Bruno and Rashford. So I wouldn't give any credence to the general opinion of United fans. They treat players of other clubs with more respect than their own.

 

McTominay's attributes: opening his legs and running with the ball. Shooting. Keeping it simple and recycling the ball. Tackling and his physicality. Plus he's played at the back from Scotland, so he's versatile.

 

In 2019 in the Quarter finals against Barcelona he won motm. Not bad for someone who apparently hides from the ball

 

As far as "Scott McTominay hides from the ball". It reminds me of what Joseph Goebbels said that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.

 

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/scott-mctominay-wins-man-of-the-match-award-after-champions-league-display-against-barcelona

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can hide from the ball by making sure you position yourself in the shadow of an opposition player so you can't receive a pass. That's pretty much what that means.

 

Also, welcome to the forum

 

 

 

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, Stal said:

 

You can hide from the ball by making sure you position yourself in the shadow of an opposition player so you can't receive a pass. That's pretty much what that means.

 

Also, welcome to the forum

 

 

 

 

Watch any highlight video of Jack Colback, basically.

[Ikon]

Whoever we bring in to play the “#6” role has to have technical ability and a good progressive passing range in combination with being reasonably athletic and have good footballing intelligence imo. Scott isn’t the answer! 
 

Howe could make him a better player yeah blah blah but he’s a limited footballer. I honestly don’t think we will go for him (I pray). Gone are the days of playing a pure DM with a lack of footballing ability. 
 

Get Ugarte in and be done with it.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Ikon

[TheDarkKnight]

8 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

To be honest, if we do sign him, I think he will play in that number 6 position for us, because we will be looking to push Bruno further forward to greater influence things in the final third, as that is his preferred position. And his ability to open up defences will be a huge plus for our attacking play, not to mention the knack for scoring goals that he showed when he first joined, and when he was further forward when Shelvey played deeper.

 

Howe's preference seems to be for an aggressive ball winner in that number 6 spot that will add to the press from that position, rather than be a screener that sits with more positional defensive instincts like you said. Howe's setup is going to more resemble a gegenpressing style closing down higher up the pitch to try and win the ball in those areas.

 

We've also been linked with the likes of Ugarte and Alvarez who are also aggressive ball winners from that  6 position. Howe also had Jefferson Lerma playing in that position for him at Bournemouth who also played the same way.

 

 

 

 

Yeah. I read that.

 

Interesting. The thing about McTominay is that he actually was keeping Casemiro out of the first XI at the start of the season, on merit. He was superb in that anchorman role. He looked motivated and his tackling and passing were spot on.

 

So, he absolutely can play that role.

 

The main that frustrates me about McTominay is that he needs a rocket lit under him. He plays better whilst angry, so, if you so buy him, Eddie Howe has to buy a comedian that specialises in "Mother" jokes. So before each game get the comedian to enrage Scott and watch him go!

 

I wish he had some of what Darren Fletcher had. The season Fletcher was in the EPL team of the season (09/10) he was like the Tazmanian Devil.

[TheDarkKnight]

2 hours ago, Stal said:

 

You can hide from the ball by making sure you position yourself in the shadow of an opposition player so you can't receive a pass. That's pretty much what that means.

 

Also, welcome to the forum

 

 

 

 

Yeah.

 

You could think of it as a revolutionary counter-pressing technique where he's marking an opposition player, basically stopping the opposition from pressing the man with the ball.

 

Thank you.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

2 hours ago, vicente_14 said:

 

 

I lived in Brentford for a short while, this view isn't limited to the football team! 

 

lol

[TheDarkKnight]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

 

Welcome to the board. Some of our best contributors are fans of other teams. It's nice to finally have a Manchester United fan as well.

 

Thanks.

 

Such a nice welcome! Definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the Brentford debacle .

[Shearergol]

10 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. I read that.

 

Interesting. The thing about McTominay is that he actually was keeping Casemiro out of the first XI at the start of the season, on merit. He was superb in that anchorman role. He looked motivated and his tackling and passing were spot on.

 

So, he absolutely can play that role.

 

The main that frustrates me about McTominay is that he needs a rocket lit under him. He plays better whilst angry, so, if you so buy him, Eddie Howe has to buy a comedian that specialises in "Mother" jokes. So before each game get the comedian to enrage Scott and watch him go!

 

I wish he had some of what Darren Fletcher had. The season Fletcher was in the EPL team of the season (09/10) he was like the Tazmanian Devil.

 

Sounds like you don't want to lose him.

[Skeletor]

4 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Sounds like you don't want to lose him.

 

It would be an honour to see him sitting on Man Utd's bench next season.

[TheDarkKnight]

16 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Sounds like you don't want to lose him.

 

I don't. It's a nuanced one, though.

 

I'm primarily a Scotland fan. I hate watching him on the bench. So if moving to Newcastle and if being coached by Howe can unlock his potential, then l wouldn't mind him going.

 

There's definitely a player in there. For five years he's outshone a player who cost £50m and a Brazilian international (Fred).

[TheDarkKnight]

17 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

 

It would be an honour to see him sitting on Man Utd's bench next season.

 

You forgot the variable.

 

He has a player who has 5 European Cup winner's medals in front of him.

[Skeletor]

21 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

You forgot the variable.

 

He has a player who has 5 European Cup winner's medals in front of him.

 

[TRon]

16 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

Thank you.

 

As I said, I wouldn't really put any stock in the opinion of online Manchester United fans. They just like to moan, especially about their own players.

 

 

Not going to argue with you there.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by TRon

[RobsonsWonderland]

Out of interest... Is there any reason we are putting so much stock into a click balt article from Luke Edwards?

 

It's almost like he knew it would get a negative reaction from the masses!!

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Out of interest... Is there any reason we are putting so much stock into a click balt article from Luke Edwards?

 

It's almost like he knew it would get a negative reaction from the masses!!

 

I can see why he might want him from a short term POV. Never really noticed much about him from the creative side, but he does look like a pain to play against, he presses hard and has mobility. I just would have thought there will be players with those attributes who can actually use the ball a bit better if we cast our net wide enough.

[midds]

This persistent link to McTominay needs to fuck off. He'd be an awful signing for any amount of money and absolutely no-one will convince me otherwise. He looked a bit raw a few years ago and possibly had potential to develop a bit but he's looked worse and worse the more I've seen of him. They'd be unloading their shit on us and making a fortune in the process. It's one of the worst signings we could possibly make and there's no reason to do it. He's utter wank, someone needs to get a red biro and scribble his name off the list asap 

[Skeletor]

Just now, midds said:

This persistent link to McTominay needs to fuck off. He'd be an awful signing for any amount of money and absolutely no-one will convince me otherwise. He looked a bit raw a few years ago and possibly had potential to develop a bit but he's looked worse and worse the more I've seen of him. They'd be unloading their shit on us and making a fortune in the process. It's one of the worst signings we could possibly make and there's no reason to do it. He's utter wank, someone needs to get a red biro and scribble his name off the list asap 

 

[Cronky]

On 20/03/2023 at 19:30, TheDarkKnight said:

Hi all. Manchester United and Scotland fan here. Just signed up to give my honest assessment.

 

I'm not entirely sure of your policy on members from rivals, so this might be my first and final post.

 

McTominay isn't an anchorman (no 6). He is more like a box-to-box midfielder. These days midfielders are boxed in and told to do one specific job, so box-to-box midfielders are obsolete, which is one of the reasons why McTominay is so polarized.

 

As for this "he hides from the ball" thing. It's been said for about 3 years and I'm still not clear what it means. How can a player hide from the ball? Sneak off and sit on the bench, without anyone noticing? Hide behind the goals?

 

One Manchester United fan came out with that line and it just snowballed into a ball the size of a glacier.

 

Just yesterday, he made himself available dozens of times, and he wasn't picked out. It's hardly his fault if his team-mates don't pass to him.

 

Besides, let me give you an example of the general online Manchester United fan. On RedCafe (their no 1 site) they have a thread dedicated to Frenkie De Jong. It has close to 2k posts of United fans salivating over him and fawning over him.

 

Even though he is a Barcelona player and will probably never join Manchester United.

 

On RedCafe there's also individual threads dedicated to every squad member. Each thread is full of Manchester United fans criticising and tearing apart their own players. They are the most toxic group of fans.

 

They usually have a couple of scapegoats at a time. Back in the day it was Fletcher and O'Shea. The previous ones were Lingard and Pogba. The recent scapegoats are McTominay and Maguire. When those two leave, the scapegoats will probably be Fred and Antony.

 

Every player gets it in the neck, though, even Bruno and Rashford. So I wouldn't give any credence to the general opinion of United fans. They treat players of other clubs with more respect than their own.

 

McTominay's attributes: opening his legs and running with the ball. Shooting. Keeping it simple and recycling the ball. Tackling and his physicality. Plus he's played at the back from Scotland, so he's versatile.

 

In 2019 in the Quarter finals against Barcelona he won motm. Not bad for someone who apparently hides from the ball

 

As far as "Scott McTominay hides from the ball". It reminds me of what Joseph Goebbels said that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.

 

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/scott-mctominay-wins-man-of-the-match-award-after-champions-league-display-against-barcelona

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for an interesting post, which prompted me to do a bit more research via You Tube. There seems to be no shortage of opinions about this player.

 

The gist seems to be that he's not trusted as a CB, unless it's on the right side of a three, as with Scotland. He's not a great DM, because he's not quite nimble enough to receive and use the ball under pressure in that vulnerable position. And there are question marks over him as a box-to-box player, because although he's very athletic, he's not particularly technical. The general view seems to be that he's box-to-box, but there now isn't a situation vacant at Man U for that kind of player, and the current system seems to work well.

 

I'm a bit dubious about these hybrid CB/Midfield players. We had one in Isaac Hayden, and it didn't work out. Even with the best of their kind, say Declan Rice, I wonder whether they're a bit of a jack of all trades.

 

So I'm wondering what Eddie has in mind here. We have Bruno in the anchor role in midfield, who is very good at keeping and using possession, but isn't a tackler. We seem to be getting away with it, to an extent where I'm questioning whether a specialist DM is really necessary in modern football. Longstaff is more box-to-box, and is probably the player who most closely resembles McTominay, but I'm not sure whether that's a position which really needs upgrading. We also have Joelinton and Willock as options. Finally we have Schar as CB in a back four who is actually very good at moving forward with the ball and opening up defences that way, but who will need replacing because he's in his 30's. 

 

So unless Eddie sees McTominay as a replacement for Schar, I'm really not sure where his value to us would lie. Having said all that, Eddie has made a number of decisions in his time here which defy conventional wisdom, but which have worked out well. (Covering myself in the event of future quotation  )

[kocunar]

Would only accept him as a free transfer.

[TRon]

5 hours ago, Cronky said:

 

 

 

So I'm wondering what Eddie has in mind here. We have Bruno in the anchor role in midfield, who is very good at keeping and using possession, but isn't a tackler. We seem to be getting away with it, to an extent where I'm questioning whether a specialist DM is really necessary in modern football. Longstaff is more box-to-box, and is probably the player who most closely resembles McTominay, but I'm not sure whether that's a position which really needs upgrading. We also have Joelinton and Willock as options. Finally we have Schar as CB in a back four who is actually very good at moving forward with the ball and opening up defences that way, but who will need replacing because he's in his 30's. 

 

So unless Eddie sees McTominay as a replacement for Schar, I'm really not sure where his value to us would lie. Having said all that, Eddie has made a number of decisions in his time here which defy conventional wisdom, but which have worked out well. (Covering myself in the event of future quotation  )

 

Well there's the issue for me using Bruno as a deep lying midfielder. He has the same issues as Cabaye when he was used in that role, he's not the quickest so he has a penchant for missing tackles in really dangerous areas which can lead to free kicks or cards being brandished.

 

Also we lose his goal threat and eye for a killer pass when he's not playing further forward.

[thomas]

The Howeneymoon will be well and truly over for me if this oaf signs.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by thomas

[TheDarkKnight]

5 hours ago, Cronky said:

 

Thank you for an interesting post, which prompted me to do a bit more research via You Tube. There seems to be no shortage of opinions about this player.

 

The gist seems to be that he's not trusted as a CB, unless it's on the right side of a three, as with Scotland. He's not a great DM, because he's not quite nimble enough to receive and use the ball under pressure in that vulnerable position. And there are question marks over him as a box-to-box player, because although he's very athletic, he's not particularly technical. The general view seems to be that he's box-to-box, but there now isn't a situation vacant at Man U for that kind of player, and the current system seems to work well.

 

I'm a bit dubious about these hybrid CB/Midfield players. We had one in Isaac Hayden, and it didn't work out. Even with the best of their kind, say Declan Rice, I wonder whether they're a bit of a jack of all trades.

 

So I'm wondering what Eddie has in mind here. We have Bruno in the anchor role in midfield, who is very good at keeping and using possession, but isn't a tackler. We seem to be getting away with it, to an extent where I'm questioning whether a specialist DM is really necessary in modern football. Longstaff is more box-to-box, and is probably the player who most closely resembles McTominay, but I'm not sure whether that's a position which really needs upgrading. We also have Joelinton and Willock as options. Finally we have Schar as CB in a back four who is actually very good at moving forward with the ball and opening up defences that way, but who will need replacing because he's in his 30's. 

 

So unless Eddie sees McTominay as a replacement for Schar, I'm really not sure where his value to us would lie. Having said all that, Eddie has made a number of decisions in his time here which defy conventional wisdom, but which have worked out well. (Covering myself in the event of future quotation  )

 

Very welcome.

 

Yeah. It's a strange one. It just shows you how toxic and viral the net can be. One bright spark said that he "hides from the ball", next thing we know it's like a scene from "The Scarlett letter". Maybe he should wear a big red "H" on his shirt.

 

As a Scotland fan, he's never really fluffed his lines at center back (in a back three) so I definitely trust him there.

 

In midfield, we haven't really seen the best of him.

 

Yeah. He isn't really an anchorman. His tackling is fine, but it's his general lack of defensive positioning that lets him down. I do think he's better going towards the opposition goal rather than his own.

 

I'd say that he's an old school box-to-box player.

 

Interesting. I agree to some extent, but even now, every top team plays with anchorman (in a single or double-pivot). Bayern Munich with Kimmich, Barcelona with Busquets, Manchester United with Casemiro, etc. Then you think of players like Kate, Makelele, Dunga, Deschamps, Lambert, etc.

 

A midfield, more than any position, has to be nuanced and be varied. Look what happened when Sven tried to squeeze Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard into the same team. Chaos.

 

I'm not going to lie, Scott McTominay is a strange player. But there is definitely a player in there. And he's certainly EPL class.

 

He strikes me as a confidence player. Frankly, if he were most players, and they received as much abuse as he gets, they would've blown a gasket and unleashed on the Manchester United fans.

 

Players like Lingard, Ronaldo and Pogba deserve the crap that they took, as all three took the club and fans for a ride. McTominay has been dignified and professional throughout. He doesn't deserve the crap that he takes from keyboard warriors who talk like they have a UEFA Coaching badge.

 

I don't think it's match going fans, though.

 

He's also a manager's dream. He won't cause any fuss behind the scenes and he'll do his job.

 

Tune in on Saturday and Tuesday, as we're playing Cyprus and Spain.

 

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

Very welcome.

 

Yeah. It's a strange one. It just shows you how toxic and viral the net can be. One bright spark said that he "hides from the ball", next thing we know it's like a scene from "The Scarlett letter". Maybe he should wear a big red "H" on his shirt.

 

As a Scotland fan, he's never really fluffed his lines at center back (in a back three) so I definitely trust him there.

 

In midfield, we haven't really seen the best of him.

 

Yeah. He isn't really an anchorman. His tackling is fine, but it's his general lack of defensive positioning that lets him down. I do think he's better going towards the opposition goal rather than his own.

 

I'd say that he's an old school box-to-box player.

 

Interesting. I agree to some extent, but even now, every top team plays with anchorman (in a single or double-pivot). Bayern Munich with Kimmich, Barcelona with Busquets, Manchester United with Casemiro, etc. Then you think of players like Kate, Makelele, Dunga, Deschamps, Lambert, etc.

 

A midfield, more than any position, has to be nuanced and be varied. Look what happened when Sven tried to squeeze Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard into the same team. Chaos.

 

I'm not going to lie, Scott McTominay is a strange player. But there is definitely a player in there. And he's certainly EPL class.

 

He strikes me as a confidence player. Frankly, if he were most players, and they received as much abuse as he gets, they would've blown a gasket and unleashed on the Manchester United fans.

 

Players like Lingard, Ronaldo and Pogba deserve the crap that they took, as all three took the club and fans for a ride. McTominay has been dignified and professional throughout. He doesn't deserve the crap that he takes from keyboard warriors who talk like they have a UEFA Coaching badge.

 

I don't think it's match going fans, though.

 

He's also a manager's dream. He won't cause any fuss behind the scenes and he'll do his job.

 

Tune in on Saturday and Tuesday, as we're playing Cyprus and Spain.

 

 

All well and good, but a bit vague on what his actual qualities are. Box to box is good, no arguments there, but we have Longstaff who already ticks those "boxes". What in your opinion makes him better than Longstaff?

 

 

[Alan Pardew]

Championship player who goes into hiding during matches. Awful. 

[TheDarkKnight]

4 hours ago, TRon said:

 

All well and good, but a bit vague on what his actual qualities are. Box to box is good, no arguments there, but we have Longstaff who already ticks those "boxes". What in your opinion makes him better than Longstaff?

 

 

 

Fair point.

 

Physically he's a monster. He wins his fair share of ground duels and air duels, more than Longstaff does. He gets dribbled past less often than Longstaff. I'd say that his passing is better, too.

 

He's also deceptively a really good dribbler.

 

He would be an upgrade on Longstaff.