Conjo Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 I haven't posted in this thread since the news came out, and after today I am really glad I haven't. I am glad that betting by professionals are clamped down on, but if possible what has been bet on should be taken into account. Maybe someone has more insight (haven't really followed up on this story, and didn't intend to until a verdict had been made), but if a player f.ex bet on his own team to win I wouldn't class that in the same category as a player betting on other teams, throw-ins, corners, cards or similar, or even worse, own team losing. Also glad Tonali is getting the support he needs from us and the club. Wish betting companies were or was forced to being more ethical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Are we under the assumption that yesterday was his last match for a while? That the ban will come this week? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzy Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, cubaricho said: Are we under the assumption that yesterday was his last match for a while? That the ban will come this week? Judging by how quick Fagioli was given his ban I was expecting it to be last Thursday/Friday, so yes I think this week is very likely. That means he could still potentially play against Dortmund ofcourse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, cubaricho said: Are we under the assumption that yesterday was his last match for a while? That the ban will come this week? 1 hour ago, Mazzy said: Judging by how quick Fagioli was given his ban I was expecting it to be last Thursday/Friday, so yes I think this week is very likely. That means he could still potentially play against Dortmund ofcourse. Monday apparently, at least according to Craig Hope. Same hack also reckons that UEFA aren’t having Tonali playing, so it’s likely that is that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 5 hours ago, alexf said: Reflecting on this some more. I'm starting to think that it is a bit messed up these lads are getting hit with long bans. The Toney one sort of felt the same. They obviously have a problem and need help to overcome it, but taking away the one distraction they have just doesn't feel like the right solution. Obviously if he was betting on anything that would call into question the integrity of the game like betting on his team to lose then yes a ban of some form would probably be needed but I just wonder the logic behind banning these guys for full seasons etc. I think the more this happens, there will be a change in perception of gambling and the punishments will change. Unfortunately for us and Tonali these sort of cases are still fairly new and he is likely going to be made an example of like Toney. Betting on his own team absolutely calls the integrity of the game into question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 We were told that he’d only bet on blackjack online. Then on football. Then on Milan, but in games he wasn’t playing in. Then on games he was playing in, but only to win. Again, no-one should be looking to crucify him, but he’s also not exactly covering himself with glory here. The lad has an addiction and needs help, but downplaying his actions or suggesting that he’s come clean doesn’t hold water to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said: We were told that he’d only bet on blackjack online. Then on football. Then on Milan, but in games he wasn’t playing in. Then on games he was playing in, but only to win. Again, no-one should be looking to crucify him, but he’s also not exactly covering himself with glory here. The lad has an addiction and needs help, but downplaying his actions or suggesting that he’s come clean doesn’t hold water to me. Who told us anything like? Most of it has been pure guesswork and speculation in the Italian press. The facts of this have been scarce from the start, so no need to say he’s been deceiving us at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solitude20 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said: We were told that he’d only bet on blackjack online. Then on football. Then on Milan, but in games he wasn’t playing in. Then on games he was playing in, but only to win. Again, no-one should be looking to crucify him, but he’s also not exactly covering himself with glory here. The lad has an addiction and needs help, but downplaying his actions or suggesting that he’s come clean doesn’t hold water to me. His punishment will be severe, and it will harm his career. He will come clean afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izakaya Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 This has just popped up on my Facebook feed. I assume it's discussed/debunked already? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1892 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 It all just seems so surreal at the pace that it has moved, made worse that it was over an international break. I see it similar to Barnes’ injury in that he hasn’t been here long enough or put in any sort of performances on the pitch where it will be a huge miss, compared to someone like Toney at Brentford who had been their star player for a number of years but we will miss the depth he offers the squad, which was the point of signing him in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Izakaya said: This has just popped up on my Facebook feed. I assume it's discussed/debunked already? Tonali would have been 10 in April 2011 tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izakaya Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: Tonali would have been 10 in April 2011 tbf Yeah the comments on the post did say he'd be super young if it was legit. Still, probably didn't need that coming to light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, Izakaya said: Yeah the comments on the post did say he'd be super young if it was legit. Still, probably didn't need that coming to light. I hadn't seen it so thanks for bringing it to light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjb Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Seen a few videos and images of the team where Sandro is alone, not on purpose but just a bit isolated. Think we need to find him an Italian teamate just like how Bruno had Big Joe when he joined. Language barrier is an obvious issue but think he'll be much more accompanied of he had a fellow Italian to be around with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Izakaya said: This has just popped up on my Facebook feed. I assume it's discussed/debunked already? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, AJ9 said: Who told us anything like? Most of it has been pure guesswork and speculation in the Italian press. The facts of this have been scarce from the start, so no need to say he’s been deceiving us at all. You're right, but it works both ways. There are a lot of people falling over themselves to worry for the little lamb and his devastating illness. Which might well also be a load of shite - supposedly there are dozens of Italian footballers involved in this that haven't come out yet, and it seems implausible that they're all helplessly addicted Paul Merson made a good point yesterday that they'll be able to assess his historic betting activities to get a clearer idea of where he's been at mentally. In the mean time, we're largely in the dark though, basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bally21 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 I wasn't at SJP yesterday as I'm out the area at the moment, but that video of the scenes after the match with tonali is spine tingling, the fans supporting him the way they did can only help. Forgiveness and warmth is always the best way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: Betting on his own team absolutely calls the integrity of the game into question. How? I'm really struggling to see how the integrity of the sport is damaged by a player betting on his own team to win over any other bet. I honestly think it's about the least corrupt thing he could do It doesn't indicate match fixing or fraud in any realistic way. You have to assume he did more (which he may have done). I imagine fraudulent bets are placed with alarming regularity, they're too easy not to. A player can realistically take a yellow card in any game they please and it's hard to believe players, especially in lower leagues, aren't tempted to essentially print money. Given Fagioli, Tonali and Zaniolo are apparently a part of some betting ring, it's feasible they could have been scheming to bet fix, "we'll all take a yellow today?". However Fagioli is in 3m debt, which points to it being a genuine case of addiction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Izakaya said: This has just popped up on my Facebook feed. I assume it's discussed/debunked already? Damn, his English at 10 is better than it is now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danh1 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Sorry if posted but pissed me off yesterday how he was in front of the Gallowgate, who were all chanting his name. Only for it to be barely audible due to Hey Jude, a fucking Scouse song being blasted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Seems to be alot of criticism of the loud music and speaker guy for awhile now surprised the club haven't noticed this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: How? I'm really struggling to see how the integrity of the sport is damaged by a player betting on his own team to win over any other bet. I honestly think it's about the least corrupt thing he could do It doesn't indicate match fixing or fraud in any realistic way. You have to assume he did more (which he may have done). I imagine fraudulent bets are placed with alarming regularity, they're too easy not to. A player can realistically take a yellow card in any game they please and it's hard to believe players, especially in lower leagues, aren't tempted to essentially print money. Given Fagioli, Tonali and Zaniolo are apparently a part of some betting ring, it's feasible they could have been scheming to bet fix, "we'll all take a yellow today?". However Fagioli is in 3m debt, which points to it being a genuine case of addiction. Nah I completely disagree, it does critically affect the integrity of the game either way if a player has a stake in a result beyond what he's employed to do. What if the team have a player sent off after 5 minutes, the manager's instruction is to sit deep and hold out for a draw, but the player keeps charging forward needing the win because he's got a huge amount of money on it? Now that the bookies offer foul, shot and tackle markets you don't even need to take a booking, would be so easy to do for any player who wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Wullie said: Nah I completely disagree, it does critically affect the integrity of the game either way if a player has a stake in a result beyond what he's employed to do. What if the team have a player sent off after 5 minutes, the manager's instruction is to sit deep and hold out for a draw, but the player keeps charging forward needing the win because he's got a huge amount of money on it? Now that the bookies offer foul, shot and tackle markets you don't even need to take a booking, would be so easy to do for any player who wanted to. I get what your saying, but it's hard to imagine at the highest level players are betting so much on their own teams to win, and to such an extent, that it is effecting their performances in such positions. Players can have win bonuses inserted into their contracts too, which would theoretically have a similar effect with players defying orders to earn a few more quid, but in general teams seeing a draw stick to it. I do agree though, theoretically there could be a tangible effect, I just think it's a far way off effecting the integrity of the game. The integrity of the game is naturally effected by being able to bet on it though, as it's just so easy to manipulate certain markets. Edited October 22, 2023 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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