TheBrownBottle Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, GideonShandy said: It seems perverse that he would be entitled to be paid in full while being banned from playing due to his own illegal conduct. Assuming that he is legally entitled to collect his full wage, if he has any moral compass he would nonetheless volunteer to give up a big chunk of it -- not less than half -- to the club. and also devote some of his remaining pay and time to appropriate charity or community work. And the club should look hard at pursuing a lawsuit or arbitration claim against Milan, as I'm sure they're already doing. That isn’t happening anytime soon - Tonali signed knowing full well what the risk was to his new club. Zero chance he’ll take a pay cut. I haven’t even seen something as asinine as a public apology yet, never mind handing millions back to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Football is very ‘insidery’. Tonali was acting like a ringleader - so there would have been people in the dressing rooms he was in who knew. He managed to get others involved - so there would likely be others who he approached who didn’t. There is a good chance AC Milan were aware - either from internal whispers or outright knowledge. Someone claiming to be his psychologist came out and said he’d been diagnosed with a gambling addiction. So the chances are the club knew. Making that stick is likely impossible. Scouting is about character as well as xG wank. We don’t know whether what Tonali was up to was discoverable or not - most on here appear to have made up their mind that it was ‘impossible’ to know. I really think the 'Ringleader' stuff is massively overblown in the press. I doubt he was going around trying to recruit everyone. Even Fagiolo the grass admits it was him who approached Tonali when he seen him gambling on a site. "In the training camp of the Under 21 national team, he suggested that I play on an illegal site," Fagiolo said in his deposition, according to Tuttosport. "I saw him playing and asked him what he was doing, he told me that I could do it too because there was no trace of betting" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Jaqen said: I really think the 'Ringleader' stuff is massively overblown in the press. I doubt he was going around trying to recruit everyone. Even Fagiolo the grass admits it was him who approached Tonali when he seen him gambling on a site. "In the training camp of the Under 21 national team, he suggested that I play on an illegal site," Fagiolo said in his deposition, according to Tuttosport. "I saw him playing and asked him what he was doing, he told me that I could do it too because there was no trace of betting" That does seem less bad, though if our friendly grass noticed him doing it and asked about it, it can’t have been all that inconspicuous. Others likely noticed too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 5 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: That isn’t happening anytime soon - Tonali signed knowing full well what the risk was to his new club. Zero chance he’ll take a pay cut. I haven’t even seen something as asinine as a public apology yet, never mind handing millions back to the club. I still think this ban is a disaster on a lot of fronts and is definitely a huge set back for us in the short term, long term a lot depends on Tonali when he returns. The kid owes us big time when he returns, but think he’s got a big uphill battle to become the top player we thought we were signing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 8 hours ago, FCB said: Newcastle United are set to ‘launch an internal investigation’ into the £55m deal to sign Sandro Tonali from AC Milan. It is believed club chiefs want answers as to how the recruitment team failed to discover Tonali’s betting problem. Newcastle sporting director Dan Ashworth and head of recruitment Steve Nickson are now both under fire for the signing – which cost the club a reported £55million in the summer window. The Magpies now face the huge cost of picking up Tonali’s wages during his ban. Sources say the midfielder earns £140,000-a-week, meaning Newcastle will have to pay out around £5.6million during his period of unavailability. Newcastle are now keen to replace the Italy international as they prepare to potentially fight on four fronts simultaneously this season. Football Insider revealed on Sunday (29 October) that Man City midfielder Kalvin Phillips could join the club on loan in the January transfer window. It is believed the Magpies will be restricted to loan signings only in the mid-season window due to Financial Fair Play constraints. Given this is from Football Insider, I'd take it with a massive amount of salt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, madras said: I'm very surprised clauses protecting the club from issues like this aren't built into a contract. this type of contract provision has effectively been banned by the unions. Maximum fine is six weeks wages Edited November 3, 2023 by James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty66 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Mr Mrs actually made a decent point when she heard about this. Surely in his contract there should be a clause along the lines of - "failing to disclose any personal information or activity to the club that could result in bans/fines/criminal charges will result in a breach of contract" Obviously Tonali maybe didn't think he had a problem but he still knew it was wrong. A clause like something above would protect the club from paying out wages etc. There must be a clause like that in a contract of this size and profile?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Just now, Scotty66 said: Mr Mrs actually made a decent point when she heard about this. Surely in his contract there should be a clause along the lines of - "failing to disclose any personal information or activity to the club that could result in bans/fines/criminal charges will result in a breach of contract" Obviously Tonali maybe didn't think he had a problem but he still knew it was wrong. A clause like something above would protect the club from paying out wages etc. There must be a clause like that in a contract of this size and profile?! If not, there will be in contracts going forward now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Media blows everything up, especially football journalists. "Dan Ashworth and head of recruitment Steve Nickson are now both under fire for the signing". I am 95% certain, like any sensible business, that they are carrying out some sort of root cause analysis of the process rather than anything personal, and if the RCA shows that it is a human error from one of them, then maybe one or both will be "under fire". Describing Tonali as a "ring leader" too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 37 minutes ago, Scotty66 said: Mr Mrs actually made a decent point when she heard about this. Surely in his contract there should be a clause along the lines of - "failing to disclose any personal information or activity to the club that could result in bans/fines/criminal charges will result in a breach of contract" Obviously Tonali maybe didn't think he had a problem but he still knew it was wrong. A clause like something above would protect the club from paying out wages etc. There must be a clause like that in a contract of this size and profile?! Others will likely know better, but I’ve got a feeling that a contractual clause that stops a player from earning could lose if challenged in court. Of course, what would usually happen is a sacking, but that won’t happen here. It’s an impossible situation for the clubs - though I agree that the club should do what it can going forwards to protect itself from repeats of this nature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Just now, Conjo said: Media blows everything up, especially football journalists. "Dan Ashworth and head of recruitment Steve Nickson are now both under fire for the signing". I am 95% certain, like any sensible business, that they are carrying out some sort of root cause analysis of the process rather than anything personal, and if the RCA shows that it is a human error from one of them, then maybe one or both will be "under fire". Describing Tonali as a "ring leader" too The other players were pointing fingers at Tonali being the one getting them into it. Definition of a ringleader: ‘a person who initiates or leads an illicit or illegal activity’. The hat fits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: The other players were pointing fingers at Tonali being the one getting them into it. Definition of a ringleader: ‘a person who initiates or leads an illicit or illegal activity’. The hat fits. Bored lads in their early twenties with lots of disposable income, regularly away on international duty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, Scotty66 said: Mr Mrs actually made a decent point when she heard about this. Surely in his contract there should be a clause along the lines of - "failing to disclose any personal information or activity to the club that could result in bans/fines/criminal charges will result in a breach of contract" Obviously Tonali maybe didn't think he had a problem but he still knew it was wrong. A clause like something above would protect the club from paying out wages etc. There must be a clause like that in a contract of this size and profile?! the Athletic explained this. We can only dock six weeks of wages. Beyond that the provisions in his contract would allow us to sack him, but we aren’t allowed to hold his registration and suspend his pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 hour ago, 54 said: Given this is from Football Insider, I'd take it with a massive amount of salt. Was wondering why there was no source Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, GeordieDazzler said: Bored lads in their early twenties with lots of disposable income, regularly away on international duty. Yeah, that’s definitely the root of it - but that of course doesn’t mean they shouldn’t know better. Every book I’ve read on England’s WC squads read like what you’ve written - boredom resulting in betting (card schools, horses etc). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Wasn’t it World Cup ‘90 where the squad watched nothing but horse racing tapes and Gazza cleaned everyone out as he’d already seen all the races live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 (edited) I think the most important question is whether we want to stop paying him, not if we’re legally allowed to. He’s just at the start of his time with us and we’ve come out in support of him already. If we want him to stay attached to the club and remain motivated then probably paying him is the better option. Best case is that we could agree with him to some sort of gesture pay cut or some money going to gambling charities etc. But even then you’d be upsetting all the gambling sponsors. Edited November 3, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Said ad infinitum, there's no way the club could unearth anyone's illegal activity without hacking their devices, finding a grass or having paid informers within the authorities inc the bizzies. Admittedly, the latter is within the remit of our ultimate owners. Probs ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Not sure why his sessions would be individual? https://x.com/CraigHope_DM/status/1720380297613643858?s=20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 If Emil Krafth can be out for 14 months before returning to the team in an unfavoured position, and fit like a glove, I'm sure wor Sandro will do fine after ten. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 hour ago, SUPERTOON said: Not sure why his sessions would be individual? https://x.com/CraigHope_DM/status/1720380297613643858?s=20 Probably because he cant play games and Howe wants the available players to be part of the drills that is useful for the match squads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 hour ago, SUPERTOON said: Not sure why his sessions would be individual? https://x.com/CraigHope_DM/status/1720380297613643858?s=20 "a lot of sessions" so not only individual. Silver lining in this mess is that since he isn't injured and can train close to and with the team, he has a really good opportunity now to knuckle down and work on improving all aspects of his game - speed, strength & technical ability. Hope he takes it and show us all why we and the club were right in supporting him through this come start of next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Woundn't be surprised at all if he's an absolute monster when he comes back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 43 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Woundn't be surprised at all if he's an absolute monster when he comes back. My gut feeling too mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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