Sandro Tonali

[Dr Venkman]

20 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

100%.  Funny how Isak is a ‘rat’ despite consistently performing in the shirt, and Tonali is an all-round good lad despite this not being the case, spending a year giving ‘come and get me eyes’ to any club that looks, and being shite for that period to boot. 

This isn’t true. 

[The College Dropout]

Isak’s last season was excellent.  His form did wane towards the end of the season but overall he was excellent.  
 

A 23 goal PL season, a goal in the league cup final. Cmon man. Haaland is the most consistent PL striker in recent memory and he goes 2 in 10, sometimes less, every season at some point. 
 

Isak was a consistent performer for us which is why most thought he was a top 3-5 player for Newcastle in our lifetime. And was sold for an English record fee. 

Isak was consistent in a manner Tonali and Gordon were not. 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

13 hours ago, TRC said:

It’s not the London thing primarily, it’s the ambition. Spurs are really going for it now, how successful they will be who knows. 
 

We aren’t and our ambition peaked when we signed Tonali and we haven’t really kicked on.

 

Is that how ambition works?

[sushimonster85]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Isak’s last season was excellent.  His form did wane towards the end of the season but overall he was excellent.  
 

A 23 goal PL season, a goal in the league cup final. Cmon man. Haaland is the most consistent PL striker in recent memory and he goes 2 in 10, sometimes less, every season at some point. 
 

Isak was a consistent performer for us which is why most thought he was a top 3-5 player for Newcastle in our lifetime. And was sold for an English record fee. 

Isak was consistent in a manner Tonali and Gordon were not. 

 

 

I feel like the rat stuff can mask just how phenomenal he was in that final season, I give you that. But before that season he was somewhat inconsistent. Not to the same levels we have seen from Tonali & Gordon this season where they have been mostly poor, barring a few bright spots. But pre that final season Isak would blow hot and cold. He didn't have that 'I actually only need one half chance to change the game' form till his last season. 

[Geogaddi]

Isak went to Liverpool who were the current league champions , biggest team in the country and a club who are pretty much guaranteed to win trophies . The way he went about it was unforgivable but at least you could see why he wanted to play for them and he gave us two brilliant seasons before that .

 

Tonali seems happy to go to Spurs who are perennial losers and not even in the Champions League . He isn't going for any sort of ambitions to win trophies or anything it's all about the money . All this after getting himself banned for a year then giving us one good season and spending the last year or so hawing himself about to anyone that will listen .

 

Blows my mind how anyone can criticise Isak but not Tonali. If anything Tonali is worse.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Geogaddi

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Geogaddi said:

Isak went to Liverpool who were the current league champions , biggest team in the country and a club who are pretty much guaranteed to win trophies . The way he went about it was unforgivable but at least you could see why he wanted to play for them and he gave us two brilliant seasons before that .

 

Tonali seems happy to go to Spurs who are perennial losers and not even in the Champions League . He isn't going for any sort of ambitions to win trophies or anything it's all about the money . All this after getting himself banned for a year then giving us one good season and spending the last year or so hawing himself about to anyone that will listen .

 

Blows my mind how anyone can criticise Isak but not Tonali. If anything Tonali is worse.

The bit in bold is crucial. 

[Mills and Boon]

I mean, it hasn't happened yet. He's not gone on strike to make it happen either 

[Geogaddi]

1 minute ago, Mills and Boon said:

I mean, it hasn't happened yet. He's not gone on strike to make it happen either 

He wont need to as luckily for him it seems we aren't refusing to sell him like we did at first with Isak.

[SteV]

1 minute ago, Geogaddi said:

Isak went to Liverpool who were the current league champions , biggest team in the country and a club who are pretty much guaranteed to win trophies . The way he went about it was unforgivable but at least you could see why he wanted to play for them and he gave us two brilliant seasons before that .

 

Tonali seems happy to go to Spurs who are perennial losers and not even in the Champions League . He isn't going for any sort of ambitions to win trophies or anything it's all about the money . All this after getting himself banned for a year then giving us one good season and spending the last year or so hawing himself about to anyone that will listen .

 

Blows my mind how anyone can criticise Isak but not Tonali. If anything Tonali is worse.

 

 

 

Tonali hasn’t really done anything yet though.

 

He could well end up still being here next season and performing.

 

And the ‘rat’ baseline he’s competing against is refusing to train/play, denouncing the club via social media, and then offering nothing in the way of apology/contrition once that behaviour has forced the club into selling him.

 

As it stands at present, the two aren’t remotely comparable.

[Nucasol]

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

The bit in bold is crucial. 

 

It's really he only thing that matters

 

This comparison is crazy.

[The College Dropout]

19 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

I feel like the rat stuff can mask just how phenomenal he was in that final season, I give you that. But before that season he was somewhat inconsistent. Not to the same levels we have seen from Tonali & Gordon this season where they have been mostly poor, barring a few bright spots. But pre that final season Isak would blow hot and cold. He didn't have that 'I actually only need one half chance to change the game' form till his last season. 

The 21 goals in 30 PL games season? He was consistent that season too. He was so good I was expecting a new contract for him and my eyebrows were raised when we didn't hear anything about it.

 

His first season he had injuries and Wilson was on fire. I wouldn't say he was inconsistent but he was still finding his feet. The next season wasn't a surprise - he reached the level you expected if he was the main man and stayed largely injury free which he did.

 

His transfer was so painful because he put his head down for most of the season and delivered. In retrospect, players of his calibre don't have 3 seasons like that for a club like Newcastle at his age without a new contract. It was naive to expect him to run 4 years on that initial contract. Lack of leadership from the owners there.

 

In retrospect I'm more sympathetic to his eventual transfer and he was excellent for us.

 

----

 

Re: Tonali - he's had 1 great season - 1 ok season and another one banned. Doesn't feel right.

 

You felt like if Tonali was going to stay medium term, he would've signed a new deal on better money after we finished 5th (the ban extension doesn't count - that was to protect his value and reduce amortisation for the season he was out). Now all of our prime assets are contract concerns. Tino, Hall and Bruno. I'm fearful for the rumour mill once Bruno is back from the world cup.

[GWN]

Howay Spurs bid £100m and he’s yours 

[Dr Venkman]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Isak’s last season was excellent.  His form did wane towards the end of the season but overall he was excellent.  
 

A 23 goal PL season, a goal in the league cup final. Cmon man. Haaland is the most consistent PL striker in recent memory and he goes 2 in 10, sometimes less, every season at some point. 
 

Isak was a consistent performer for us which is why most thought he was a top 3-5 player for Newcastle in our lifetime. And was sold for an English record fee. 

Isak was consistent in a manner Tonali and Gordon were not. 

 

 

He stopped trying after the league cup final. He played 10 games without bothering his arse, that's over 1/4 of the league season. That's not performing consistently. Consistency is 'constantly adhering to the same principles, course, form, etc..'. No-one's saying he wasn't excellent when he was trying to be excellent. To say he performed consistently is just wrong.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dr Venkman

[The College Dropout]

10 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

 

He stopped trying after the league cup final. He played 10 games without bothering his arse, that's over 1/4 of the league season. That's not performing consistently. Consistency is 'constantly adhering to the same principles, course, form, etc..'. No-one's saying he wasn't good. To say he performed consistently is just wrong.

3 in 10 Consistent striker

 

4 in 10 not a consistent striker

 

[Dr Venkman]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

3 in 10 Consistent striker

 

4 in 10 not a consistent striker

 

 

Context:

1. 2 of the 4 goals were pens
2. 1 of the remaining 2 was the 5th goal in a 5-0 home victory

 

Everyone knows he stopped trying after the LC final. To draw a comparison between Isak and Tonali and come to the conclusion that the former kept performing consistently while the latter didn't is contrarianism. And it's wrong.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dr Venkman

[Wallsendmag]

1 hour ago, Geogaddi said:

Isak went to Liverpool who were the current league champions , biggest team in the country and a club who are pretty much guaranteed to win trophies . The way he went about it was unforgivable but at least you could see why he wanted to play for them and he gave us two brilliant seasons before that .

 

Tonali seems happy to go to Spurs who are perennial losers and not even in the Champions League . He isn't going for any sort of ambitions to win trophies or anything it's all about the money . All this after getting himself banned for a year then giving us one good season and spending the last year or so hawing himself about to anyone that will listen .

 

Blows my mind how anyone can criticise Isak but not Tonali. If anything Tonali is worse.

 

 

 

 

Tonali will only be worse if he goes on strike and point blank refuses to play for the club. Add to his 1 year ban that the club and fans backed him 100% through and that he didn't give us anywhere near as much on the pitch as Isak did then yes I think you could say he's been even worse,but as yet there's no suggestion that he'll do that.

 

I'm a realist though. Players come and players go. It's the nature of the game and long gone are the days where players stay at clubs for years and years, especially clubs that aren't winning all the time, or at least challenging. It's very much agent driven now as well and moving their clients from club to club is what makes them their money.

 

Last season was always having a knock on effect going into the summer. The so called better players will be getting twitchy. You'd expect that. Gordon already gone, fair enough to Barcelona so not much you can do about that. Tonali is a bit different. Spurs is pretty much a sideways step but when you add in the appeal of London, playing in probably the best stadium in the Country, and then the chance to pretty much double his salary then you suddenly realise the attraction. Also they have a new manager and look like they're going to really go for it this summer so I can sort of see the attraction from his side.

 

More of a pride thing from our POV. Losing players to Liverpool and Barcelona, you've got to grudgingly accept your place in the footed chain. Losing them to Spurs is a bit harder to take.

 

Again though our position should be to bring in a top quality replacement BEFORE he leaves and if then it's a case of the fee is the fee for Tonali and if we value him at £100m then that is what it is. Can't be doing anyone any favours and we need to be tough negotiators when selling, just like Spurs are.

 

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

 

Context:

1. 2 of the 4 goals were pens
2. 1 of the remaining 2 was the 5th goal in a 5-0 home victory

 

Everyone knows he stopped trying after the LC final. To draw a comparison between Isak and Tonali and come to the conclusion that the former kept performing consistently while the latter didn't is contrarianism. And it's wrong.

 

 

 

Answer me these 2 questions honestly, yes or no.

 

Was Isak excellent in his final season?

 

Anything other than "yes" is a lie. It was as good, if not better, than Tonali's season that year when he only "clicked" in December.

 

Was Tonali excellent last season?

Anything other than "no" is a lie. And i've defended Tonali last season.

 

 

[GWN]

In truth £100 million is a piss take, he doesn't change games, a wee bit above average, a nice enough player but fuck me the price is nuts but all prices are honking at the moment so why not hang out for the moola.

 

We like him but yes they come and go.  

 

No one is crying if he goes ive noticed .

[Shearergol]

Today on NO - Who should we hate more?

 

Boring.

[Dr Venkman]

37 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Answer me these 2 questions honestly, yes or no.

 

Was Isak excellent in his final season?

 

Anything other than "yes" is a lie. It was as good, if not better, than Tonali's season that year when he only "clicked" in December.

 

Was Tonali excellent last season?

Anything other than "no" is a lie. And i've defended Tonali last season.

 

 

 

So you want to collapse all context into binary choices? 

 

Nah, you're alreet.

[Menace]

2 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

Today on NO - Who should we hate more?

 

Boring.

 

 

 

Not very difficult tbf

[Optimistic Nut]

1 hour ago, GWN said:

Howay Spurs bid £100m and he’s yours 

 

Posts like this, just fuck PSR. Nothing wrong with the post in a PSR world but we should be looking to add to players like him, not have to sell him to buy 2-3 not as good, but who if they are, we're in the same boat in 2-3 years time. 

[Optimistic Nut]

1 hour ago, GWN said:

Howay Spurs bid £100m and he’s yours 

 

Posts like this, just fuck PSR. Nothing wrong with the post in a PSR world but we should be looking to add to players like him, not have to sell him to buy 2-3 not as good, but who if they are, we're in the same boat in 2-3 years time. 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Answer me these 2 questions honestly, yes or no.

 

Was Isak excellent in his final season?

 

Anything other than "yes" is a lie. It was as good, if not better, than Tonali's season that year when he only "clicked" in December.

 

Was Tonali excellent last season?

Anything other than "no" is a lie. And i've defended Tonali last season.

 

 

 

Is it not a bit of Isak was excellent then downed tools a fair bit post cup final whereas Tonali has been out out of form (compared to his peak) but the effort has generally been there?

 

I won't lose too much sleep if Tonali leaves but would prefer him to stay, and if we get anywhere close to £100m then we've got a great deal.

 

£125m/£130m for Isak felt about right but a little on the low side.

 

So it's easier to not feel as hurt with the Tonali deal whilst part of the Rat aspect is self preservation?