Swazzdro Tonali

[Solitude20]

It doesn’t matter how many goals he scores for Italy, he will end up warming the bench for Longstaff 

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

20 minutes ago, Solitude20 said:

It doesn’t matter how many goals he scores for Italy, he will end up warming the bench for Longstaff 

Statistically the correct decision….

[Nattfare]

On 12/11/2024 at 20:37, PauloGeordio said:

Sandro Dali! 
 

 

 

 

 

Slightly off centre 6/10.

[madras]

20 minutes ago, Nattfare said:

 

Slightly off centre 6/10.

Would not hang.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

13 hours ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

Statistically the correct decision….

Correlated with better results, along with a lot of other factors. 

 

 

Edited November 15 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Solitude20]

16 hours ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

Statistically the correct decision….

Statistics don’t work with small and tiny samples.  
 

We’ve had matches where we won with Longstaff, and we’ve had other matches where we lost with him. The same applies to Tonali, Willock, Joelinton, and all other players. Let’s just not cherry pick the last couple of games just because we won them.

 

Should we start benching Bruno because we beat Chelsea with him not starting the game? 

[Heron]

Wasn't there a stat last week about Longstaff, Bruno, Willock and Joelinton being unbeaten in like 19 starts together or something?

 

It is okay to like both Sandro and Longstaff yi kna chaps. They can coexist.

[Heron]

12 minutes ago, Solitude20 said:

Statistics don’t work with small and tiny samples.  
 

We’ve had matches where we won with Longstaff, and we’ve had other matches where we lost with him. The same applies to Tonali, Willock, Joelinton, and all other players. Let’s just not cherry pick the last couple of games just because we won them.

 

Should we start benching Bruno because we beat Chelsea with him not starting the game? 

Just on this - Tonali has statistically got the least data to go off with regards to starts and performances in the Newcastle United squad. So surely that just adds weight to Longstaff starting if you wanna go off that?

 

Anyways, I'm not sure I get the whole Tonali versus Longstaff thing being dragged on when we're achieving results and also performing. Don't think we have the luxury of tinkering to see if we can reach a new (and even better) levels just yet. Just stick with what's working.

 

 

Edited November 15 by Heron

[huss9]

23 minutes ago, Heron said:

Wasn't there a stat last week about Longstaff, Bruno, Willock and Joelinton being unbeaten in like 19 starts together or something?

 

It is okay to like both Sandro and Longstaff yi kna chaps. They can coexist.

Heron, Heron, Heron ..... how long have you been on this site?

 

 

Edited November 15 by huss9

[Heron]

Just now, huss9 said:

Heron, Heron, Heron..... how long have you been on this site?

Just the 17 years and 107 days...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh. Dear God.

[toonfanman]

Tonali and Longstaff are currently competing for the same position within the team.

I don't see why we can't discuss the merits of them directly against each other.

It's probably the most contentious topic for line-up discussions.

 

Some terrible use of stats to justify opinions as other's have said.

[Alberto2005]

I think the important question is, why is Tonali seemingly playing better for Italy than us?

 

Is it a positional issue? Or just coincidence.

 

If the former we need to address it, maybe playing either deep or to the left side of the midfield will fix that.

 

 

Edited November 15 by Alberto2005

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, toonfanman said:

Tonali and Longstaff are currently competing for the same position within the team.

I don't see why we can't discuss the merits of them directly against each other.

It's probably the most contentious topic for line-up discussions.

 

Some terrible use of stats to justify opinions as other's have said.

I'm not sure they are anymore, or at least right now anyway. Tonali and Willock seems to be the rotation at the moment.

 

 

Edited November 15 by Kid Icarus

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Alberto2005 said:

I think the important question is, why is Tonali seemingly playing better for Italy than us?

 

Is it a positional issue? Or just coincidence.

 

If the former we need to address it, maybe playing either deep or to the left side of the midfield will fix that.

 

 

 

 

 

Italy probably play a totally different style to ours. Tonali is clearly a fantastic player, he would sell for a lot more than Longstaff if we had to get rid of one to balance the books. But does he fit Howe's system better than Longstaff? That's the question. As long as we are winning with Longstaff starting ahead of Tonali, there's not really much of an argument.

[STM]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I'm not sure they are anymore, or at least right now anyway. Tonali and Willock seems to be the rotation at the moment.

 

 

 

 

Precisely and it seems to be Tonali dropping into Brunos role and Bruno playing where Willock was.

 

[Alberto2005]

3 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Italy probably play a totally different style to ours. Tonali is clearly a fantastic player, he would sell for a lot more than Longstaff if we had to get rid of one to balance the books. But does he fit Howe's system better than Longstaff? That's the question. As long as we are winning with Longstaff starting ahead of Tonali, there's not really much of an argument.

That's fair enough, but if that's the case it's a bad signing if we've put ourselves in a position he won't play because our system doesn't suit him.

[toonfanman]

Just because Howe has made 70 minute tactical substitutions for an injury prone Willock in the last two games doesn't mean Tonali and Longstaff aren't directly competing for a place in the starting line-up.

[SUPERTOON]

18 minutes ago, Alberto2005 said:

I think the important question is, why is Tonali seemingly playing better for Italy than us?

 

Is it a positional issue? Or just coincidence.

 

If the former we need to address it, maybe playing either deep or to the left side of the midfield will fix that.

 

 

 

Is it because the international games are glorified friendlies ? 

[Heron]

Of course you can compare them - just the incessant desire to downplay Sean Longstaff is absolutely tiresome.

 

There appears to be folk who had their concerns about Longstaff starting ahead of Tonali who are now saying "Yeah - we are performing and so is Longstaff and we're getting wins". Hats off to these folk for not being so stubborn and set in their ways.

 

There are others absolutely hell bent on him being dropped for Tonali - who is clearly a more talented footballer but to date hasn't quite connected in the existing system and roles deployed.

 

That's not to say he is a bad signing, doesn't fit our system or anything. It will take time and work with him to fine tune the maximum we can get out of him. After a prolonged period of time then perhaps he is a bad singing but he's only had like 10/15games for us and not even full games. I'm positive we can get the best out of him - whether that be in the existing system or an alternative/evolution of it.

 

FWIW - at the start of the season I identified Hall as being our defensive weak link - he's now solid as a rock. I just never understand this position folk seem to have that their opinion is 'locked in'.

 

Suppose it would absolutely make sense for us to start a side that isn't getting results versus a one that is...wouldn't it...

 

 

Edited November 15 by Heron

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, Alberto2005 said:

That's fair enough, but if that's the case it's a bad signing if we've put ourselves in a position he won't play because our system doesn't suit him.

 

I'm of the opinion Tonali can fit into our system, he played really well in the 2-0 cup win over Chelsea. He played instead of Bruno though, not Longstaff, so the question remains whether he can play with Bruno successfully, because our best performances seem to have been where Joelinton, Willock and Longstaff were involved in the midfield make up. Howe's job is just to get results, and as long as they are positive he doesn't really need to change anything.

[Kid Icarus]

44 minutes ago, toonfanman said:

Just because Howe has made 70 minute tactical substitutions for an injury prone Willock in the last two games doesn't mean Tonali and Longstaff aren't directly competing for a place in the starting line-up.

Kind of does if Longstaff's position and role doesn't change if you ask me. At least at the moment anyway.

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

1 hour ago, Solitude20 said:

Should we start benching Bruno because we beat Chelsea with him not starting the game? 

 

Nope.  I should probably put more smileys on my messages so people don't take me too seriously!  The stats thing was just tongue in cheek.

 

On Tonali IMO he is not performing well in our setup.  It's really frustrating.  We see flashes but I think he should be at near Bruno levels.  At a minimum he should be involved in the game for the majority of the time he's on the pitch.  In reality he disappears for long periods of time.  The answer is not to stop playing him but I don't know what the answer is.  He seems to like a lot of one touches but then he doesn't get enough of the ball for that.  

 

My fear is that he's a player we never see then best of and he's a superstar somewhere else.  Hopefully Howe finds a formula that clicks for him and the overall team soon.

[Sibierski]

Can you get involved loads when the RCM in our set up? I’d say no as our set up doesn’t allow it.

 

Think long term, Tonali as the CM and Bruno RCM who can be further forward could be the way to go. Allows us an understudy to Tonali (Miley ideally) and Longstaff to continue as back up RCM till he’s moved on.

[Yorkie]

Quote

 

Above all, it had been a landmark night for Sandro Tonali, the one outfield starter employed abroad, and still the most expensive Italian ever exported thanks to the €59million (£49.2million) deal that took him from AC Milan to Newcastle United in 2023, three months before he was banned, for breaching betting rules, from all football, sidelining him for most of his first season in England and from the Euros. Eleven minutes into the Belgium game, Tonali scored his first goal for Italy, completing a move fluently engineered by Nicolò Barella and Giovanni Di Lorenzo. It was his first goal for anybody since marking his debut for Newcastle United with one in what, at the time, looked a very auspicious arrival in the Premier League.

 

That was 462 days ago; 312 of those days had been spent under suspension, out of action. The goal evidently meant a great deal. Tonali celebrated by forming the letter G with his hands, a gesture to his partner, Giulia, who had shared with him so many housebound matchdays during his suspension and who has since seen him galvanise Italy with what Spalletti detects is a pent-up desire to make up lost time. With each cap, the coach finds himself reaching for new figures of speech to praise Tonali’s horsepower. Last month, he was the car whose “engine is still roaring when he drives it back into the garage”; this week, he was the “wild stallion” of his midfield.

 

Tonali’s personal comeback neatly casts him as the emblematic figure of Italy’s renaissance, although, this being Italy, the term should be used warily. “We are on the right path,” noted Sacchi, “but we shouldn’t delude ourselves. Unfortunately, a relapse is always possible.”

 

 

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/sandro-tonali-the-unlikely-poster-boy-of-italys-renaissance-lhx3hl08d

[Smal]

18 hours ago, Sibierski said:

Can you get involved loads when the RCM in our set up? I’d say no as our set up doesn’t allow it.

 

 

There is more room for the RCM to be involved if Willock is playing I think, as it often means the RCM has to sit deeper. Especially if teams try to mark Bruno out of the game as they often do. Longstaff attempted 48 passes vs Bruno's 38 in the last game for example. 

 

 

Edited November 16 by Smal