FAC QF: Manchester City 2-0 Newcastle United (16/03/24) | Reaction: pg 34

[McDog]

20 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

He sees the guy everyday in training, unlike any of us on here. 

 

 

On the surface that sounds like a huge cop out but it really isn't. He has 1000x the information we have on everything from form in training to mental state and how everything is coming together with different groups.

 

That doesn't mean we can't speculate or have an opinion and it doesn't mean Howe is never wrong in his determinations but he is quite a bit more informed than us.

 

 

Edited March 16 by McDog

[Rafalove]

8 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

On the surface that sounds like a huge cop out but it really isn't. He has 1000x the information we have on everything from form in training to mental state and how everything is coming together with different groups.

 

That doesn't mean we can't speculate or have an opinion and it doesn't mean Howe is never wrong in his determinations but he is quite a bit more informed than us.

 

 

 

 

 

Against another manager you could really use not starting Hall as a stick to beat the manager with, but Howe has proven himself to be correct so often you can give him the benefit.

[Pancrate1892]

37 minutes ago, madras said:

Yedlin ?

What was the score?? 2-1? One of the exceptions from a total pounding?

 

Mitrovic was 6-1 city and I think Murphy was 3-1 city. 

[Conjo]

Man City players were tired at the end. No way they were in 1st/2nd gear. They had to work hard for their victory. It just looks like they are coasting with the way they play, but they spend a lot of energy by always moving, always being available for the pass, always closing down in numbers.

 

 

[Ginola14]

agreed Man City look like they're in low gears against most teams that's just their style and the brilliance of Pep

 

proper annoying and boring though

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I wouldn’t say it was a bad performance for the players we have and the situation we’re in. Problem is we gave away two unlucky/soft goals and we were finished. 

 

It certainly could have been worse,  but they stopped going for it and controlled the game after their second when it became plainly obvious that they could do just that with very little risk. It's just frustrating when you watch other teams and they're so much more exciting than us, often appearing to have a go at the top sides whereas we tend to go into games such as this already defeated. I like Howe and want him to succeed but he needs to stop persisting with players who are putting in poor performances week after week. I've been critical of Burn pretty much every game this season, now it seems as though Botman may be next. That's 3 poor performances in the last few games from him, but there's no way he'll pick Lascelles, Krafth or Dummett (remember Man Utd away in the cup?) ahead of him for whatever reason. I really hope we see Anderson ahead of Longstaff too. Lewis Hall needs a run too, none of this 30 minutes every 7/8 games bullshit. Frustrated.

[Holmesy]

There’s no embarrassment in losing by 2 goals to city. But for better first touches and a bit of luck we could’ve had 2 ourselves. They would probably have kicked into another gear and won anyway though.

What I’m disappointed and frustrated with is that the game left me with more doubt over Eddie’s decision making. Largely I think we had all come to the conclusion that Hall must actually not be very good. Burn has been a disaster this season and yet Hall and Livra have stayed on the bench while the former has consistently cost us goals. It was only a short glimpse admittedly, but Hall looked more than ready. We know Livra is more than ready. So what the fuck?! How can we do anything but question Eddie when he will not replace one of the worst players in our team with a better, more mobile, faster, more positive and more effective option? 

 

 

Edited March 16 by Holmesy

[Tsunami]

It’s so frustrating seeing how easy it was for Man C and knowing that the current elite are going around plugging all the potential avenues the likes of us and Villa may have to break through.

 

In some ways you could argue that finishing 4th and getting to the LC Final last year might have put too much fear into the top sides and they’ve accelerated the rule changes.

 

Not necessarily Man C but the rest of them are using every shitty stick available to fend our progress off.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's hard to say how 'easy' it would've been for Man City if they hadn't deflected two soft goals in. Of course, once they are 2-0 up the game is over. 

 

I do hope we see Hall, Ando and Miley play more now though.

[greydos]

The worst thing for me about losing to Man Scott is not the difference in quality but core body strength. Whenever there’s duels for the ball or a battle to get it under they always our strength us and come out with it. Watching Dan Burn running with Foden and struggling to knock him over shoulder to shoulder, or watching Bruno lose out to Kovacic or Willock lose out to Silva. 
 

I can take teams having more technical quality than us. But not team should be physically stronger than us. We should be bossing duels.

[Dr.Spaceman]

11 hours ago, McDog said:

 

 

On the surface that sounds like a huge cop out but it really isn't. He has 1000x the information we have on everything from form in training to mental state and how everything is coming together with different groups.

 

That doesn't mean we can't speculate or have an opinion and it doesn't mean Howe is never wrong in his determinations but he is quite a bit more informed than us.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if people who use this argument did the same when Pardew refused to pick HBA.

[Doctor Zaius]

Say what you like but what a fucking booooring team City are. Far better than anyone else, with far better players and a deep squad full of top class players yet it's fucking dull watching us play against them. It was bad at SJP watching them and even that was a relatively entertaining 3-2 affair. Peak Arsenal，Man Utd or Chelsea were never as dull as these cunts.

 

Their plastic fans barely celebrating as they passed us to death. What a miserable game. 

 

Watched it in the pub but spent most of the second half playing darts with my back to the game.

[The College Dropout]

50 minutes ago, greydos said:

The worst thing for me about losing to Man Scott is not the difference in quality but core body strength. Whenever there’s duels for the ball or a battle to get it under they always our strength us and come out with it. Watching Dan Burn running with Foden and struggling to knock him over shoulder to shoulder, or watching Bruno lose out to Kovacic or Willock lose out to Silva. 
 

I can take teams having more technical quality than us. But not team should be physically stronger than us. We should be bossing duels.

We’ve lost confidence and dare I say motivation ? A lack of confidence and motivation makes you that bit slower and weaker. Touch worse etc. Howe is partly responsible for that. 

[Beren]

54 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We’ve lost confidence and dare I say motivation ? A lack of confidence and motivation makes you that bit slower and weaker. Touch worse etc. Howe is partly responsible for that. 

 

The commitment was there IMO, but it all looked quite jaded. The season has been plagued by injuries, but there are now a lot of bodies back - there has been a diet of one game per week, or playing other teams with the same number of games, for quite a while now.

 

It's like a person in their very late twenties still blaming their parents. 

 

There's still an element of players finding fitness, but it's just the attritional style of play which seeks to generate opportunities from harrying defenders, rather than retaining possession which does it IMO. Not against the likes of Man City, of course, other teams - Newcastle seem to play in an overly direct style of play (always seeking an immediate killer ball) and then chase way too hard for a comparatively modest return in possession turnovers/chances.

 

My hope for Howe and the team is they use the rest of the season to address this, but I've been waiting for 3-4 months.

 

Man City's football may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's more sustainable in the long run - you don't want to be running full throttle for 90 minutes every week for a whole season. Have bursts of it in games, sure. Or for certain matches.

[NE27]

5 minutes ago, Beren said:

Man City's football may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's more sustainable in the long run - you don't want to be running full throttle for 90 minutes every week for a whole season. Have bursts of it in games, sure. Or for certain matches.

 

But that's what having at least two technically proficienct players to a position will give you.

 

Longstaff et al can barely trap a ball atm nevermind play triangles out of trouble. obviously going forward it would be great if we could change the tactics from run harder than the opposition but I think this team is just bottomed out after a ridiculous season of shit going wrong.

 

Not actually sure what needs to happen, but picking up injuries every game is such a mentally damaging aspect, and Howe could do himself a few more favours with regards to rotation instead of literally killing a player off.

[gbandit]

I think the issue is that the “intense press” is a bit all or nothing. It needs everyone on it working at 100%. If anyone is not on it then it starts to crack pretty quickly. We haven’t been able to use the press anywhere near as effectively as last season and we’re not a great team in possession of the ball. We need to marry the press approach with better technical ability in holding the ball and moving the ball. Those two together and then we’re deadly and probably end up not having as many injuries as we’re not absolutely at our limit all the time 

[Beren]

2 minutes ago, NE27 said:

instead of literally killing a player off.

 

 

This got me. Does feel at times like he is a General just sending bodies over the top until they don't come back.

[gbandit]

Howe’s brave boys

[NE27]

Just now, Beren said:

 

 

This got me. Does feel at times like he is a General just sending bodies over the top until they don't come back.

 

I'm a firm Eddie howe backer, but it does feel he has pushed players a little too far this season for the cause when they weren't 100% fit.

 

Lots of mitigating factors of course, I'm just tired of this season now.

 

 

This season...

[Gallowgate Toon]

7 minutes ago, Beren said:

 

The commitment was there IMO, but it all looked quite jaded. The season has been plagued by injuries, but there are now a lot of bodies back - there has been a diet of one game per week, or playing other teams with the same number of games, for quite a while now.

 

It's like a person in their very late twenties still blaming their parents. 

 

There's still an element of players finding fitness, but it's just the attritional style of play which seeks to generate opportunities from harrying defenders, rather than retaining possession which does it IMO. Not against the likes of Man City, of course, other teams - Newcastle seem to play in an overly direct style of play (always seeking an immediate killer ball) and then chase way too hard for a comparatively modest return in possession turnovers/chances.

 

My hope for Howe and the team is they use the rest of the season to address this, but I've been waiting for 3-4 months.

 

Man City's football may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's more sustainable in the long run - you don't want to be running full throttle for 90 minutes every week for a whole season. Have bursts of it in games, sure. Or for certain matches.

We still have some key injuries and mixed fitness of those returning. Just because something has been happening for a while, it doesn't diminish reasoning because it's annoying to keep referencing.

 

We've had more of the ball than not this season. 52% average, 2% off Villa with Emery's pausa approach. We've scored a lot so we're evidently more than just runners, especially when you factor our press has been used far less this campaign due to lack of availability.

 

Brighton have the second highest possession in the league but have still had lots of injuries and struggle to put together coherent performances. Style and tactics are so often overrated, players are the most important part of the whole thing most of the time.

[Beren]

3 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

We still have some key injuries and mixed fitness of those returning. Just because something has been happening for a while, it doesn't diminish reasoning because it's annoying to keep referencing.

 

We've had more of the ball than not this season. 52% average, 2% off Villa with Emery's pausa approach. We've scored a lot so we're evidently more than just runners, especially when you factor our press has been used far less this campaign due to lack of availability.

 

Brighton have the second highest possession in the league but have still had lots of injuries and struggle to put together coherent performances. Style and tactics are so often overrated, players are the most important part of the whole thing most of the time.

 

Interesting post 

 

I don't think 50%+ average possession is the gloryland personally. I don't think any possession stat is isolation is the measure of success, or what I was getting at, but it's an interesting bit of data.

 

For example, I'd be more than happy to let Brighton pass it along their backline for 60 minutes while sitting on a 2-goal deficit vs Newcastle. Meaningful possession during meaningful parts of the game is less easy data capture though.

 

Also, I'm not surprised Villa's stat is reasonably low either and I'm not a big fan of their style of play either.

 

FWIW, I don't think NUFC are inherently "just runners" and they've showed on numerous occasions what they're capable of, which makes it all the more galling when the "running game" is leaned on too heavily.

 

I also strongly disagree that it's just about players. I think coaching/strategy have the biggest impact - especially when you're NOT in the position to a have a squad like Man City's or Liverpool. Evidence of this is what Howe did with the likes of Murphy, Longstaff and Almiron last year who under a different system were in a relegation battle. 

[The College Dropout]

Agreed. But we aren’t going to catchup to the top 6 sustainably by out footballing them technically.  
 

Actually that might not be true. 
 

But we will need to out coach them and be smarter in the transfer market. 
 

I don’t think we’ve done either over the last 6-7 months. Especially the transfer market.  We’ve spent £150m and not a single one of those players features regularly in the starting XI.  

[The College Dropout]

Injuries have have been pamming Villa too. 
 

3 ACL injuries this season. Captain. DM. and AM. 

[Optimistic Nut]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Injuries have have been pamming Villa too. 
 

3 ACL injuries this season. Captain. DM. and AM. 

 

Mings & Buendia happened in August so they were able to get in Lenglet & Zaniolo. Doubt they'd have been there if those two weren't injured.

[The College Dropout]

I do fundamentally agree that we are overly reliant on the press.  
 

Last season we could defend even if the press didn’t work.