Final: England 1-2 Spain

[Kimbo]

England have lacked a top CM that can dictate play and dominate a game for as long as I can remember. We’ve had workhorses and players that are good at breaking forward for goals and assists, but I don’t judge a CM based on that. The closest we’ve had is Scholes, who didn’t really do it for England for various reasons, and had some weaknesses of his own (he tackled like Bruce Lee). Hopefully one of Mainoo, Wharton, and Miley can develop into something special.

 

 

Edited July 14 by Kimbo

[Doctor Zaius]

1 minute ago, ponsaelius said:

Btw I think Southgate was genuinely a good manager for England 2018-2022. Personally never agreed with any of the criticism previously, both in terms of performances and results considering the relative personnel available each time.

 

However I think we were actually terrible throughout this tournament and think it would have been more befitting if we had gone out against Slovakia. 

 

Its almost bewildering that we got this far. Absolutely no discernable style of play. 

 

I felt more gutted when we went out to France in the World Cup because we looked like a side. Tonight was blind hope rather than expectation. 

[Sempiternal]

Just now, Wullie said:

And for all Kane has been rubbish, when you watch as much top level modern football as we/I do, watching Jordan Pickford whack it long to him over and over and over again, hoping for a knockdown, is almost surreal. 

 

I've said to a couple of relatives this tournament who are the type of people who only watch football at these times that basically nobody plays football like this now, it has felt sometimes like Southgate hasn't watched a Premier League game since he retired.

It wouldn’t be terrible if he won a header. Like if you’re gonna do that, play Toney, he’s dominant in the air. Very strange to watch 

[Sempiternal]

1 minute ago, Kimbo said:

England have lacked a top CM that can dictate play and dominate a game for as long as I can remember. We’ve had workhorses and players that are good at breaking forward for goals and assists, but I don’t judge a CM based on that. The closest we’ve had is Scholes, who didn’t really do it for England for various reasons, and had some weaknesses of his own (he tackled like Bruce Lee). Hopefully one of Mainoo, Wharton, and Miley can develop into something special.

 

 

 

Wharton should have got game time. He’s a great player 

[RobsonsWonderland]

Just now, ponsaelius said:

Btw I think Southgate was genuinely a good manager for England 2018-2022. Personally never agreed with any of the criticism previously, both in terms of performances and results considering the relative personnel available each time.

 

However I think we were actually terrible throughout this tournament and think it would have been more befitting if we had gone out against Slovakia. 

I agree.. seemed very negative since the world cup. 

I don't think he ever got over getting booed after the Hungray 4.0 loss and fans and critics questioning his selections.

 

Tried to create an us against the world mentally this camp and I think it backfired

[Sempiternal]

4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I've said it before but Foden having previously been on the other side of that undroppable/unstartable dichotomy makes it all the more baffling. Up until now Southgate wanted nothing to do with him

He’s the ultimate system player I fear 

[The Butcher]

[Mattoon]

Pickford - Deserves his spot

Walker - Past it, no footballing brain, relies on his ever decreasing pace too much

Stones - Great defender, poor tournament

Guehi - Deserves his spot

Trippier - Time to hang up the international boots.

Shaw - As above, can't give 90 minutes, faded badly at the end.

Rice - Never the man to control that engine room, great player but doesn't set the pace of the game and plays the ball to Stones far too often.

Mainoo - Great potential, but must be in a double pivot, not mature enough to run that space alone.

Foden - All fart

Saka - Deserves his place.

Kane - Retire already! Serial loser.

Watkins - Deserves to start

Tony - Deserves his place in the squad

Palmer - Criminally underused

Wharton - Deserves minutes, very tidy if unthrilling player.

Gordon - Unbelievably underused

 

Southgate - Thanks for the memories, top bloke, poor manager, has to rely on moments of brilliance and absolute screamers to win games.

[KaKa]

25 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

 

Some truth to the first, but not the latter. I'd swap Gordon for Williams in a heartbeat.

 

Gordon is more tenacious and energetic.

 

In one on one situations Williams is more dangerous and difficult to get a handle on.

 

Both good players in different ways. 

[Sempiternal]

Hmmm I dunno, if I had choice I’d rather defend Williams than Gordon personally.

[ponsaelius]

Just now, KaKa said:

 

Gordon is more tenacious and energetic.

 

In one on one situations Williams is more dangerous and difficult to get a handle on.

 

Both good players in different ways. 

 

I take back my comment about swapping them, but only because these Basque lads love getting homesick straight away so would be far too much of a gamble.

 

All being equal and just looking at them as players Williams is another level IMO.

[tinoasprilla]

Southgate was a great of fresh air when he came in gave everyone hope saying he’d pick players in their position and on form.  Go forward a few years and he’s doing the exact opposite.  Shaw was good first half partly through Bellingham protecting him but why’s he playing left wing? To make space in the team for Foden who had one good half in 7 games. Which is one better half than Kane.  Palmer makes things happen is a better player than Foden who is a luxury player same as Kane.  Where would Spain play Bellingham or Foden

[Ronaldo]

Rice, Kane and Foden all had a really poor tournament.

 

New manager, new ideas needed. Need to go foreign again because the list of English candidates is absolutely woeful, Eddie aside. 

[Pata]

1 hour ago, Jonas said:

Euro 2020/21 is too messy in my mind to gage but since they've expanded it that's at least two shit tournaments when the only bad one in the previous format was Euro 96.

 

Format is partly to blame due to so many third place teams going through which results in cautious approaches in especially the third group games. Much bigger problem IMO is that so many big countries are playing abysmal football right now with their terrible scared managers. Honestly think Spain and Germany were the only big nations playing entertaining football, shame they faced in the first knockout round. 

 

Many smaller nations were playing good stuff and especially Rangnick and Austria showed that you can play good football and get results even with a very average squad when it's well coached. France, England, Portugal, Belgium, Italy and even Holland should be ashamed of those performances, no matter the results. Just horrible boring football.

[St. Maximin]

I know people criticise Southgate but the thing with international football is it’s boring and defensive…

 

Except for the team that turned up with a squad very few thought would win and ended up beating everyone, despite a really tough run, playing fast and entertaining football that made them lightyears ahead of the next best teams. 

[Disco]

6 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Format is partly to blame due to so many third place teams going through which results in cautious approaches in especially the third group games. Much bigger problem IMO is that so many big countries are playing abysmal football right now with their terrible scared managers. Honestly think Spain and Germany were the only big nations playing entertaining football, shame they faced in the first knockout round. 

 

Many smaller nations were playing good stuff and especially Rangnick and Austria showed that you can play good football and get results even with a very average squad when it's well coached. France, England, Portugal, Belgium, Italy and even Holland should be ashamed of those performances, no matter the results. Just horrible boring football.

Defensive football is far easier to coach but I’d hope Spain winning on the front foot (even if I didn’t think they were great tonight) might be a wake up for other so called bigger nations.  

[samptime29]

Just got home. Absolutely gutted. Obviously toon comes first but that was painful.

[samptime29]

Huge day of work at 8am lol

[Sempiternal]

They are so much better than the dross tiki taka tbf. Two wide men gasping to put a cross in. It’s good 

[Heron]

Let's just face it. Our style of football was sussed. We tried to adapt and we couldn't and now we're stuck behind a trend.

 

Be bold and we will win it all.

 

We have the players and the appetite but not the manager.

 

Max respect to Gareth but that's it. Onward and upwards.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

2 hours ago, Rich said:

Talking up still being in the game at 80 minutes man. Howeh.

 

 Its just crazy

[Pata]

57 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

The amount of talent in that England squad doesnt give us the right to win a tournament, but fuck me, if anyone thinks Southgate got the best out of them, they're on a different planet. 

 

Easy draw, made hard work of it, outclassed by the first decent team they came up against. Looked alright for 45 mins v Netherlands. Delighted to see the back of Southgate tbh. A Bellingham overhead kick from an Iceland style knockout which would have been befitting of us this tournament.

 

 

 

 

If people were asked to form a combined eleven out of England and Spain before the tournament, I honestly think Rodri would be the only lock Spaniard and few others like Pedri and Williams might get some mentions. Spain were impressive all tournament but there's absolutely no reason why England shouldn't be too with a manager who has some balls and doesn't try to force big names to fit in to a formation out of position. It's mind-boggling that you just never used the left wing all tournament and it was Bellingham in the end who got sacrificed there after Foden failed miserably before.

[Pata]

Also certain Pickford just wants to kick the ball as far away as he can as a brag to look macho and tough, was ridiculous tonight.

[LFEE]

Pickford - Good tournament but still erratic when calm is needed.

Walker - Never been a big fan, no great footballing brain in final third and relies on his pace too much to make up for bad positioning.

Stones - Good defender, good tournament and our MOT possibly in the final.

Guehi - Did quite well considering how new to international football he is however thought he had a couple of sloppy and costly moments virtually each game.

Trippier - Played out of position but probably his last tournament. No worse than Shaw it turned out in the end.

Shaw - Should never of been picked. Never looked fit and was done after 45mins in the final.

Rice - Never a big fan. Especially at this level. Thought he hid early in the tournament but improved slightly.

Mainoo - His introduction early in the tournament improved us as a team but sadly went missing in the final and still a bit green understandably.

Foden - Played out of position and improved as he drifted to N.10 but ultimately didn’t have a great tournament.

Saka - Thought he hid in certain games in regards to playing it so safe but I feel he does that too much at club level also. He’s good but another I feel overhyped when up against the big boys.

Kane - Called it two weeks ago that Spurs sold at the perfect time. Feel his legs have gone. Great player in his time. Will score goals for Bayern still but will struggle in the big games going forward.

Watkins - Deserved his moment for the season he’s had and was underused. Has some rough edges but was a better fit than Kane.

Toney - Underused even though I’d never have him as a starter but we constantly needed a Plan B&C so should’ve had far more minutes.

Palmer - Underused. Should’ve started the 3rd game at least like a few of the squad should’ve.

Wharton - Should’ve started or got 45mins in the group. Especially in game 3.

Gordon - Unbelievably underused. The 4mins he got were possibly England’s best the whole tournament.

Konsa - Did possibly better than Guehi and maybe should’ve kept his place.

Gallagher - Not a fan and looked out of his depth every time he took the field.

Bellingham - Hadn’t played well in the final seven UCL games I’d seen and looked a player either out of form or suffering from a long physical and emotional season. Flashes of quality but he should’ve been an No.8 not No.10. Awful trait of diving/feigning injury.

 

Southgate - From breath of fresh air he’s slowly morphed into having all the mannerisms and faults of previous managers mainly being to loyal to out of form players. Selecting injured players for tournament squads. The LB situation was a farce this time round and Gordon criminally underused.

 

Team with Squad selected:

 

                       Watkins

 

Gordon           Foden       Palmer

 

 

               Rice    Bellingham

 

Saka/        Konsa Stones   Walker

Take fit LB

[Heron]

7 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

If people were asked to form a combined eleven out of England and Spain before the tournament, I honestly think Rodri would be the only lock Spaniard and few others like Pedri and Williams might get some mentions. Spain were impressive all tournament but there's absolutely no reason why England shouldn't be too with a manager who has some balls and doesn't try to force big names to fit in to a formation out of position. It's mind-boggling that you just never used the left wing all tournament and it was Bellingham in the end who got sacrificed there after Foden failed miserably before.

Yep. Absolutely.