Bramble, Carr and defensive selection...

[Guest Bellers]

Earlier this year we witnessed the emergence of Paul Huntington and David Edgar. In an injury hit team these lads were not outstanding, but they were solid enough to earn a place in a defence that has leaked goals for as long as can be remembered. The consistancy of Nol Solano in right back was a bonus, the Birmingham game aside he barely put a foot wrong.  

 

So when Titus Bramble and Stephen Carr returned from injury what exactly gave them the divine right to walk straight back into the team? Carr is possibly the worst right back in the premiership. He's overweight and has no ability at what so ever. On his day Bramble can be outstanding, but exactly how often is "his day"? Virtually every game he'll make a mistake which will cost us a goal, he has no concentration span at all and like Carr looks overweight.

 

Throwing these two back into the team straight after injury was bad enough, but to shuffle the defence round as Glenn did is simply unacceptable. Carr is bad enough at the best of times in his favoured position at right back, but to play him in left back was a joke, a joke that backfired badly, especially during the build up to Fulham's second. Taylor, by far and away our best centre back moved to right back to gift Bramble his place in the team. Nobby our newly found saviour at right back dropped to the bench for the benefit of Bramble. The Titus Bramble who let Brian McBride slip past him to tuck away Diops's low cross.

 

The simple fact of the matter is when Glenn has had a decision to make regarding team selection he has blown it.  Playing a defence like he did yesterday is simply not good enough, they're terrible at the best of times. If he does not learn soon we're going to be getting rolled over on a regular basis, he's shooting us in the foot before we even get off the bus...

 

[nufcjmc]

I have to agree its hard to say that had bramble and carr had of  not been in the team we would have won, I predicted a draw from this game as we really arent that good normally down there. But I like you was left tugging my hair and scratching my head wondering why on earth a suspended nobby through the week would justify carr's stay in the team. As for bramble i think roeder was trying to use "the heavies" two big lads trying to dominate play from set pieces but it just didnt work, taylor has proved to be a starter in the back 4 and i just wish he would have stayed to being in the middle as for huntington I dunno now we know the result i would have preferred him being in the side and keeping gooch on the bench, the lad had only had one practice session and roeder in the past has shown he doesnt rush a player back well i think he maybe should have done the same thing with gooch to settle in, see more practice matches and see which pair would work.

 

I really think at times someone else is telling him what to pick and do as this team selection had me baffled.

[La Parka]

Some good points Bellars.

 

IMO it should have been:

 

Nobby Bramble Gooch Taylor

 

[stozo]

Your off your head if you think Huntington is anywhere near good enough to be starting at centre back. Was to blame for 2 of the 3 goals at Everton and 1 or the 2 goals at Bolton.

[garth]

I agree with most said but I would have had Edgar down the left with Taylor in the centre with Gooch and of course Nobby on the right. I just think that Edgar is a bit better than Huntington and maybe a bit more adaptable.

[Guest Bellers]

Your off your head if you think Huntington is anywhere near good enough to be starting at centre back. Was to blame for 2 of the 3 goals at Everton and 1 or the 2 goals at Bolton.

 

He's average at best, but he's still a massive improvement on Bramble, who simply isn't good enough. Yesterday Taylor and Gooch had to start in the centre of defence, no if's, no but's...l

[morpeth mag]

IMO Taylor is the only defender guarenteed a long term future at NUFC (accept he is still learning). So play him in his long term position, CB. Use the next 12 games to see if Gooch will be a long term partner for Taylor.

 

We should have made our minds up about Bramble a long while ago. If he's staying give him a contract. For me he goes and I'd only play him when Taylor or Gooch are out.

 

After his recent displays Solano has to be RB. In the summer we need to sign another RB.

 

The biggest disappointment for me was the failure to sign a LB. All our decent play is down the right and even though Duff has been poor so far part of this must be the quality of the various LB he's being asked to play with. I'd have started Carr at LB yesterday and accepted I'd have got that wrong. Edgar for me next time.

[Skeletor]

Should have been:

 

Nobby Gooch Taylor Edgar

 

Edgar is sadly enough the most consistent left back we have (even though he isn't one) and Gooch obviously had to play being the new signing. Steven Carr really should get the Luque treatment from Roeder.

[Yorkie]

Agreed Bellers. I fear for our starting line-up every time we've got more than 11 first teamers fit.

[ATB]

Should have been:

 

Nobby Gooch Taylor Edgar

 

Edgar is sadly enough the most consistent left back we have (even though he isn't one) and Gooch obviously had to play being the new signing. Steven Carr really should get the Luque treatment from Roeder.

 

definitive. Edgar looks like a really intresting player who I want to see more from. And Talyor is class. Gooch is problaby our best defender alongside Taylor and Solano is our best rightback.

 

Carr and Bramble is shit and should be kicked by the club in the summer with Ramage, Baba, O`Brien and Pattison.

With this shit players and Roeder the top will never be reach!

[Yorkie]

I'm not saying he's a shit signing and i'm not writing him off... but please don't expect too much of Gooch just yet. Although he looked promising against Fulham, and really no more than that, i don't really know how people can be calling him our 'best defender' or 'second best defender', like they are doing. He could very easily turn out to be another Bramble.

 

He came from a highly average Standard Liege side after all.

 

For sure, he looked decent against a striker who he's played with and sussed over the space of two or three years, but i'm not getting over-excited just yet.

 

On the plus side though - he's a fucking beast.

[ATB]

Bramble is often playing well. but in the games he always doing 1-2 things that gives the opponent a goal. and then it dosen´t matter how well he´s playing. we can´t have a player like that if we want to win.

 

Goochy will maby not be the gud we hoped fore. but if he can put his efforts togheter and don´t make errors like Bramble he will without a doubt be a starting player.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I would say the basic principle should be, as few players out of position as possible, and if the best players can play in their preferred position then do it.

 

Nobby has been our best RB this season, so he should have started there.

Taylor has been the best CB this season, so he should start there, not on either flank.

Gooch was getting his debut and is a CB, so he starts there.

 

That leaves the LB position where, tbh, we have no good options. If it was up to me I would have probably picked Edgar, as he seems the lesser of all the evils we have there.

[Guest teepee]

totally agree bellers!

 

imo nobby, taylor and gooch should be certain starters, and either edgar or ramage should fill in at left back untill we get an atual left back in the squad...

 

bramble seems too protected by roeder, and the reliance on carr is simply idiotic! he should never get anywhere near our squad again!

[Cronky]

I'd agree that Roeder got his selection wrong, although usually I find myself agreeing with his decisions. He had a decision to make about which two to play out of Onyewu, Taylor and Bramble, and tried to get out of it by playing all three. It gave us the advantage of aerial power, but really we'd have been better off with Solano's constructive play from full back.

 

But on the other points, Huntington and Edgar look promising, but aren't ready yet. The defence has looked anything but solid in recent weeks.

 

Very rarely does a centre back go through an entire game without a single mistake. It always seems to me that no matter how Bramble performs, if he puts one foot wrong then his entire display is written off. That's regardless of whether the mistake leads to a goal. There are only 2 or 3 centre backs in the entire Premiership who would survive that kind of judgement.

 

Carr seems to have taken over Shola's mantle as the player who gets the 'he'sabsolutelyuseless' treatment. He's not great, but he's not useless either, and he can still do a reasonable job for us. He can't really be blamed for Fulham's second goal, because realistcally 90% of defenders would have been muscled off by Diop's challenge, which would have been called a foul if Fulham had been the away side.

[Guest johnson293]

I listened to Radio Newcastle's commentary on saturday, and when the team was read out, Mick Lowes and John Anderson (anderson in particular  ) questioned why Solano was on the bench and why Taylor was moved to right back just to accomodate debutant Oguchi Oyewu.

 

He was suggesting that Oyewu shouldn't have walked straight into the team - yet neither of them questioned at all why Bramble had walked straight back in after injury, or why Steven Carr had also walked back in, even though he was being played at left back, instead of right back.

 

However, with Oyewu not being available for UEFA matches, and a question mark (up to now) over his availablity for the Liverpool game, I think it was important for him to play on Saturday, otherwise, he'd have be waiting till the end of february to make his debut.

 

In my opinion, Roeder should have played Taylor and Oyewu together, with Solano and Edgar as his full backs.

 

Carr shouldn't play right back anymore, never mind left back - and Bramble shouldn't have been given precedence over Taylor at centre half, especially after only one game back from injury.

 

Lets hope its a lesson learned, and hopefully 'Gooch' will be available to take on Kuyt and possibly Crouch, at the weekend!

 

MJ

[Rebellious]

I'd agree that Roeder got his selection wrong, although usually I find myself agreeing with his decisions. He had a decision to make about which two to play out of Onyewu, Taylor and Bramble, and tried to get out of it by playing all three. It gave us the advantage of aerial power, but really we'd have been better off with Solano's constructive play from full back.

 

But on the other points, Huntington and Edgar look promising, but aren't ready yet. The defence has looked anything but solid in recent weeks.

 

Very rarely does a centre back go through an entire game without a single mistake. It always seems to me that no matter how Bramble performs, if he puts one foot wrong then his entire display is written off. That's regardless of whether the mistake leads to a goal. There are only 2 or 3 centre backs in the entire Premiership who would survive that kind of judgement.

 

Carr seems to have taken over Shola's mantle as the player who gets the 'he'sabsolutelyuseless' treatment. He's not great, but he's not useless either, and he can still do a reasonable job for us. He can't really be blamed for Fulham's second goal, because realistcally 90% of defenders would have been muscled off by Diop's challenge, which would have been called a foul if Fulham had been the away side.

 

Good post.

 

I think it was strange to put Gooch straight in the back 4 away from home when Taylor was doing well there. Correct me if i`m wrong but surely a good understanding of eachother is more important at the back.  I`m sure Fergie hardly used Vidic in his first year at the club. This gave him time to adjust and get to know how the team plays. The thing that stops us doing this is that Roeder has 12 games now to decide if he wants to permanantly take him.

[UV]

I'd agree that Roeder got his selection wrong, although usually I find myself agreeing with his decisions. He had a decision to make about which two to play out of Onyewu, Taylor and Bramble, and tried to get out of it by playing all three. It gave us the advantage of aerial power, but really we'd have been better off with Solano's constructive play from full back.

 

But on the other points, Huntington and Edgar look promising, but aren't ready yet. The defence has looked anything but solid in recent weeks.

 

Very rarely does a centre back go through an entire game without a single mistake. It always seems to me that no matter how Bramble performs, if he puts one foot wrong then his entire display is written off. That's regardless of whether the mistake leads to a goal. There are only 2 or 3 centre backs in the entire Premiership who would survive that kind of judgement.

 

Carr seems to have taken over Shola's mantle as the player who gets the 'he'sabsolutelyuseless' treatment. He's not great, but he's not useless either, and he can still do a reasonable job for us. He can't really be blamed for Fulham's second goal, because realistcally 90% of defenders would have been muscled off by Diop's challenge, which would have been called a foul if Fulham had been the away side.

Spot on, especially para 3.

[Slugsy]

I'd agree that Roeder got his selection wrong, although usually I find myself agreeing with his decisions. He had a decision to make about which two to play out of Onyewu, Taylor and Bramble, and tried to get out of it by playing all three. It gave us the advantage of aerial power, but really we'd have been better off with Solano's constructive play from full back.

 

But on the other points, Huntington and Edgar look promising, but aren't ready yet. The defence has looked anything but solid in recent weeks.

 

Very rarely does a centre back go through an entire game without a single mistake. It always seems to me that no matter how Bramble performs, if he puts one foot wrong then his entire display is written off. That's regardless of whether the mistake leads to a goal. There are only 2 or 3 centre backs in the entire Premiership who would survive that kind of judgement.

 

Carr seems to have taken over Shola's mantle as the player who gets the 'he'sabsolutelyuseless' treatment. He's not great, but he's not useless either, and he can still do a reasonable job for us. He can't really be blamed for Fulham's second goal, because realistcally 90% of defenders would have been muscled off by Diop's challenge, which would have been called a foul if Fulham had been the away side.

 

I disagree with everything apart from para 1 - quite incredible the arguments people will put up to try and justify Bramble's ineptness!  Very rarely does a centre back go through a whole game without a mistake??? Unless your're watching some 3rd division sunday league game, thats a load of tosh!  I've seen plenty of centre backs go through a game without making a mistake.

 

Maybe you should have used the description - 'spectacular mistake' because Bramble is a master of those! 

 

This 'judgement' you speak of hasn't been some knee jerk reaction - its from a continued, consistent run of mistakes and poor performances - oh wait, apart from a few games one season when suddenly the blinkered thought he was an England internationalist!!! 

 

Why won't some people just admit the truth - they guy has been a big waste of money and if we want to move forward we have to stop making excuses for players such as Bramble who have never filled the 'supposed' promise they had in the first place - I say supposed because every Ipswich fan I have ever talked to thanked me for the cash and sniggered a lot!

 

As for Carr, go away, there are not many worse defenders in the whole league.  He got murdered for that second goal!  Stop talking about other defenders, you don't know what any other defender would have done, unless your GOD!  Its totally irrelevant and hypothetical, he was the defender and he was the one who f*cked up!

 

The guy has been overall, a pale shadow of the player he was at Tottenham, and since he has come back he doesn't even look like a Premiership footballer, to say anything different, is in my opinion, painfully deluded!

[Northern Monkey]

I'd agree that Roeder got his selection wrong, although usually I find myself agreeing with his decisions. He had a decision to make about which two to play out of Onyewu, Taylor and Bramble, and tried to get out of it by playing all three. It gave us the advantage of aerial power, but really we'd have been better off with Solano's constructive play from full back.

 

But on the other points, Huntington and Edgar look promising, but aren't ready yet. The defence has looked anything but solid in recent weeks.

 

Very rarely does a centre back go through an entire game without a single mistake. It always seems to me that no matter how Bramble performs, if he puts one foot wrong then his entire display is written off. That's regardless of whether the mistake leads to a goal. There are only 2 or 3 centre backs in the entire Premiership who would survive that kind of judgement.

 

Carr seems to have taken over Shola's mantle as the player who gets the 'he'sabsolutelyuseless' treatment. He's not great, but he's not useless either, and he can still do a reasonable job for us. He can't really be blamed for Fulham's second goal, because realistcally 90% of defenders would have been muscled off by Diop's challenge, which would have been called a foul if Fulham had been the away side.

 

I disagree with everything apart from para 1 - quite incredible the arguments people will put up to try and justify Bramble's ineptness!  Very rarely does a centre back go through a whole game without a mistake??? Unless your're watching some 3rd division sunday league game, thats a load of tosh!  I've seen plenty of centre backs go through a game without making a mistake.

 

Maybe you should have used the description - 'spectacular mistake' because Bramble is a master of those! 

 

This 'judgement' you speak of hasn't been some knee jerk reaction - its from a continued, consistent run of mistakes and poor performances - oh wait, apart from a few games one season when suddenly the blinkered thought he was an England internationalist!!! 

 

Why won't some people just admit the truth - they guy has been a big waste of money and if we want to move forward we have to stop making excuses for players such as Bramble who have never filled the 'supposed' promise they had in the first place - I say supposed because every Ipswich fan I have ever talked to thanked me for the cash and sniggered a lot!

 

As for Carr, go away, there are not many worse defenders in the whole league.  He got murdered for that second goal!  Stop talking about other defenders, you don't know what any other defender would have done, unless your GOD!  Its totally irrelevant and hypothetical, he was the defender and he was the one who f*cked up!

 

The guy has been overall, a pale shadow of the player he was at Tottenham, and since he has come back he doesn't even look like a Premiership footballer, to say anything different, is in my opinion, painfully deluded!

 

Spot on, that man.

[Rich]

I'd agree that Roeder got his selection wrong, although usually I find myself agreeing with his decisions. He had a decision to make about which two to play out of Onyewu, Taylor and Bramble, and tried to get out of it by playing all three. It gave us the advantage of aerial power, but really we'd have been better off with Solano's constructive play from full back.

 

But on the other points, Huntington and Edgar look promising, but aren't ready yet. The defence has looked anything but solid in recent weeks.

 

Very rarely does a centre back go through an entire game without a single mistake. It always seems to me that no matter how Bramble performs, if he puts one foot wrong then his entire display is written off. That's regardless of whether the mistake leads to a goal. There are only 2 or 3 centre backs in the entire Premiership who would survive that kind of judgement.

 

Carr seems to have taken over Shola's mantle as the player who gets the 'he'sabsolutelyuseless' treatment. He's not great, but he's not useless either, and he can still do a reasonable job for us. He can't really be blamed for Fulham's second goal, because realistcally 90% of defenders would have been muscled off by Diop's challenge, which would have been called a foul if Fulham had been the away side.

 

Re: Carr, aside from the second goal he was partly to blame for their first goal (throwing to a man with 3 opponents around him and conceding the throw cheaply in the first place) and there were two clear occasions elsewhere in the game where he completely lost Bocanegra from a set-play, resulting in a narrow miss and a Milner clearance off the line. Not to mention the awful back-header to Steve Harper. There was probably more, but that's what I can remember.

 

He has offered very little to this club lately and is constantly injured, not to mention that if sources are to be believed he was trying to engineer a move back to London in the summer, but no bugger would have him. I do agree that it is easy to form "hate-bandwagons", especially on this forum, but people have been questioning Carr for a lot longer than this season.

[toptoon]

Should have been:

 

Nobby Gooch Taylor Edgar

 

Edgar is sadly enough the most consistent left back we have (even though he isn't one) and Gooch obviously had to play being the new signing. Steven Carr really should get the Luque treatment from Roeder.

 

Agreed.

 

Shambles and Car shoulden't be anywhere near our team, but i suppose will have to do as back ups for now due to the transfer window. Edgar has looked good the TOO few times we have played him (fantastic MOM debut V Manu).

 

As stated :  Nobby Gooch Taylor Edgar    is our best line up, Roeder needs to sort this out if he is to survive. Before Fulham i thought 6th place would be a good target to push for, but now this has to be doubtfull. If he continue's with Shambles and Car he should go imo as they are so obviously crap players. Hunty needs more time before people go writting him off completely, half decent back up atm though, he should get better imo.

[Guest johnson293]

Carr out of Irish game with an Injury...

 

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=446258&CPID=3&clid=116&lid=2&title=Duo+out+for+Irish&channel=football_home&

 

Lets hope it serious enough to keep him out of our game this weekend as well!!

 

MJ

[toptoon]

Carr out of Irish game with an Injury...

 

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=446258&CPID=3&clid=116&lid=2&title=Duo+out+for+Irish&channel=football_home&

 

Lets hope it serious enough to keep him out of our game this weekend as well!!

 

MJ

 

I hope that your right!

 

Got a horrible feeling he'll be back playing for us soon though.

 

Hope Duff has a blinder and then continue's that way with us.

[biggs]

Carr out of Irish game with an Injury...

 

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=446258&CPID=3&clid=116&lid=2&title=Duo+out+for+Irish&channel=football_home&

 

Lets hope it serious enough to keep him out of our game this weekend as well!!

 

MJ

lets hope its an injury to keep him out the rest of the season