Football pet hates

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Happinesstan]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down.

 

Exploit the sensitivity of the baldy fella.

 

[steve_69]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? It's part of the game that's disappearing - strikers would much rather take a tumble, try to win a penalty and attempt to get the keeper sent off at the same time. Sportsmanship has been completely eradicated from the game by cynical cheats and that's a very sad feature of the modern game.

Just because cheating is now accepted at an institutional level doesn't make it right, and the game is a lesser spectacle for it.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? It's part of the game that's disappearing - strikers would much rather take a tumble, try to win a penalty and attempt to get the keeper sent off at the same time. Sportsmanship has been completely eradicated from the game by cynical cheats and that's a very sad feature of the modern game.

Just because cheating is now accepted at an institutional level doesn't make it right, and the game is a lesser spectacle for it.

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? - Happens all the time, as does forwards being fouled and brought down. Sadly, the latter and the resulting coverage and discussion over a refereeing descion will always gather more media coverage than a 'simple goal'.

 

When was the last time you saw a foul committed in the box, advantage offered, but play brought back. Until referees apply the same logic to the rules in the box as anywhere else on the pitch, strikers will always have to go out of the way to win penalties.

 

'Cheating' has existed in football for god knows how long, I just don't understand the sudden turn of attention onto this subject. It's just become such as a mass media agenda to fuel incidents that have always been taking place in the game. But now, because it's a focus, it's all of a sudden become such a deplorable act. Really don't think it's such a big thing anywhere else than in England or Scotland either.   

 

Liverpool Tottenham last night was a fantastic game, but all the coverage was spent on talking about refereeing decisions, and whether Kane dived or not. Little or no coverage was made on any other area of the game, how well certain players played, how the game was won or lost.

[steve_69]

But why are we just focusing on holding back forwards and their interest in the game? It's the prerogative to exploit weakness for their gain, just as much as any one else on the pitch. 

 

Completely accept that out right diving, without any contact has no place in the game - but you've got to accept that it's always going to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it, or even encourage it, but the level of focus and outrage on it I find boring beyond belief. 

 

Karius and Cortouis last weekend coming out and diving at the feet of Delefeou and Kane put themselves at risk of fouling the player. Why should the forward then go out of their way to avoid them? If they can knock the ball past, and then round the keeper to score, score. But for whatever reason the keeper halts their progress by touching them, go down. Their knocking them well out of balance, and chances are they would fall within a couple of strides, or certainly wouldn't be of composed stance to finish as easy if the keeper didn't make contact.

 

Any team will give briefs of traits and likely situations ahead of games. Don't show Arjen Robben inside! Don't dive at the feet of forwards that are likely to go down. 

 

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? It's part of the game that's disappearing - strikers would much rather take a tumble, try to win a penalty and attempt to get the keeper sent off at the same time. Sportsmanship has been completely eradicated from the game by cynical cheats and that's a very sad feature of the modern game.

Just because cheating is now accepted at an institutional level doesn't make it right, and the game is a lesser spectacle for it.

 

When was the last time you saw that happen? - Happens all the time, as does forwards being fouled and brought down. Sadly, the latter and the resulting coverage and discussion over a refereeing descion will always gather more media coverage than a 'simple goal'.

 

When was the last time you saw a foul committed in the box, advantage offered, but play brought back. Until referees apply the same logic to the rules in the box as anywhere else on the pitch, strikers will always have to go out of the way to win penalties.

 

'Cheating' has existed in football for god knows how long, I just don't understand the sudden turn of attention onto this subject. It's just become such as a mass media agenda to fuel incidents that have always been taking place in the game. But now, because it's a focus, it's all of a sudden become such a deplorable act. Really don't think it's such a big thing anywhere else than in England or Scotland either.   

 

Liverpool Tottenham last night was a fantastic game, but all the coverage was spent on talking about refereeing decisions, and whether Kane dived or not. Little or no coverage was made on any other area of the game, how well certain players played, how the game was won or lost.

 

Specifically I was asking when the last time you saw a player vault or round a keeper was, as opposed to throwing himself on the ground like a small child?

It rarely happens these days.

 

As far as i'm concerned any player who chooses to go to ground, whether he's been touched or not, is diving/cheating. The whole 'he was touched so he had a right to go down' line is utter bullshit! That's never been what football is about and it has damaged the game beyond repair. Unfortunately the FA and the referees union are complicit so it has basically become an accepted part of the game for a lot of people. At the risk of sounding like an old fucker though, those of us who remember football as a true contact sport and have seen players who had mastered the real art of defending see the modern game as a very poor alternative.

 

Just because cheating has become mainstream doesn't make it acceptable. There has always been cynicism in football and 'the dark arts' as pundits choose to call them, but there's no subtlety to it now and absolute no sportsmanship whatsoever. It's just a bunch of fannies throwing themselves on the ground in the hope of getting a fellow pro booked or even better, sent off. 

 

That's not football mate, not even close.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

Smalling yesterday overran the ball and ended up throwing himself to the ground, and looked like a right fanny doing so. He took a risk in that situation, it didn't pay off, and was rightly booked. That's that.

 

Shelvey was smart enough to see it coming and exploited Smalling's weakness he'd given up. Equally so, Shelvey could have been daft enough to stick a foot in, allowing Smalling to win a foul and exploit his weakness given up. Fouls are won all the time like that. When teams are running down the clock, running down the by line, a winger will knock the ball past a player knowing that the full back will foul him. 

 

If I'm a manager, and Shelvey gives away a foul, I'm going to be frustrated at him for being stupid enough to be sold like that. Cortouis coming out last week after the Watford match and moaning about the penalty decision was an embarrassment. Defend your goal better and don't dive at a players feet. What on earth was he expecting, complete naivety.

 

Defenders and goalkeepers on the whole need to wise up and stop putting themselves in these sorts of situations. Whenever a player has 'won contact' it inevitably comes from a defender making an error in judgement.

 

On the point of there being no sportsmanship - that's a slightly rose tinted view. A very easy thing to say as well. Plenty of nefarious business happened before Sky Sports News came along. Would say more so. You can't be telling me that Harry Kane winning penalties from silly arse defending is any worse than Billy Whitehurst punching, kicking and elbowing defenders every Saturday.

 

[1964]

Every keeper, defender, midfielder and striker puts themselves at risk of fouling a player every time they take to the pitch.  If your argument is why should they go out of their way to avoid an opponent then extrapolate that across the 90 minutes. 

 

Imagine a game where no one tries to avoid an opponent, it would be ridiculous.  If you condone an attacker 'winning' a penalty by deliberately running into an opponent then would that be a free kick anywhere on the pitch? 

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

Every keeper, defender, midfielder and striker puts themselves at risk of fouling a player every time they take to the pitch.  If your argument is why should they go out of their way to avoid an opponent then extrapolate that across the 90 minutes. 

 

Imagine a game where no one tries to avoid an opponent, it would be ridiculous.  If you condone an attacker 'winning' a penalty by deliberately running into an opponent then would that be a free kick anywhere on the pitch? 

 

To a certain extent that's what has happened to football. The continued evolution of how teams defend has seen teams favouring interceptions, and favourable tackling situations through sophisticated pressing of certain areas and players. What you're saying is itself quite ridiculous, and dragging any point I've made widely out of context.

 

Situations anywhere else on the pitch, outside the penalty area rarely arise whereby a player is at their very limits whereby they would need to go down from contact. Rarely you'll see exact actions of a goalkeeper and forward nudging the ball past them, from any two players on the pitch. When, and if you do, and a player slides in it's often deemed that the player is out of control and a free-kick is awarded.

 

 

[steve_69]

Smalling yesterday overran the ball and ended up throwing himself to the ground, and looked like a right fanny doing so. He took a risk in that situation, it didn't pay off, and was rightly booked. That's that.

 

Shelvey was smart enough to see it coming and exploited Smalling's weakness he'd given up. Equally so, Shelvey could have been daft enough to stick a foot in, allowing Smalling to win a foul and exploit his weakness given up. Fouls are won all the time like that. When teams are running down the clock, running down the by line, a winger will knock the ball past a player knowing that the full back will foul him. 

 

If I'm a manager, and Shelvey gives away a foul, I'm going to be frustrated at him for being stupid enough to be sold like that. Cortouis coming out last week after the Watford match and moaning about the penalty decision was an embarrassment. Defend your goal better and don't dive at a players feet. What on earth was he expecting, complete naivety.

 

Defenders and goalkeepers on the whole need to wise up and stop putting themselves in these sorts of situations. Whenever a player has 'won contact' it inevitably comes from a defender making an error in judgement.

 

On the point of there being no sportsmanship - that's a slightly rose tinted view. A very easy thing to say as well. Plenty of nefarious business happened before Sky Sports News came along. Would say more so. You can't be telling me that Harry Kane winning penalties from silly arse defending is any worse than Billy Whitehurst punching, kicking and elbowing defenders every Saturday.

 

 

I get how it all works mate, it's just a load of s*** and is ruining the game. Every time a player is challenged he should ask himself 'if my life depended on it, could i stay on my feet?'. If the answer is yes, stay on your f***ing feet and get on with the game. If the challenging player takes you down, it's a foul. That's how the game used to be played and there was nothing wrong with it.

And with regards to your comment about keepers not diving at players' feet, that's what keepers have always done. It's brave goalkeeping and part of the art of being a good goalkeeper. The fact that opposing players these days throw themselves to the ground to try and win a penalty whether you got your hands to the ball or not, instead of allowing you to take the plaudits for a good piece of keeping is quite frankly disgusting, but that's the way the game has gone.

Half the time these players nick the ball past the keeper and the f***ing thing is going out of play, so instead of admitting their poor touch they throw themselves on the ground. It's absolutely pathetic!  That's something the refs should take into account but again, they don't.

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

The cheapening of the F.A Cup across the board. Presenters and pundits talk about it not being seen as important, then they're missing when it's F.A Cup weekend and we're having to watch a MOTD line up of Gabby Logan with the last pick pundits and the shittest commentators going. The whole thing feels like watching The Championship with Manish.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Bet their houses are tips.

Just accidentally browsed this thread (SATURDAY NIGHT!) and this has got me creased again.

[Interpolic]

That whole Beautiful South convo is enjoyable to read again.

[54]

The Premier League app sending 7 individual notifications for the postponed games due to the FA Cup.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The flawed assertion that Arsenal fans can't complain because there are teams worse off, completely ignoring that there's a scale and it's about upholding standards.

[HaydnNUFC]

The flawed assertion that Arsenal fans can't complain because there are teams worse off, completely ignoring that there's a scale and it's about upholding standards.

[Stifler]

The flawed assertion that Arsenal fans can't complain because there are teams worse off, completely ignoring that there's a scale and it's about upholding standards.

It’s not about them complaining. A lot of them claim that they have won nothing for years and that they should be winning the league. When you point out to them that they have won the FA Cup 3 times in 4 years recently they dismiss this from being a real trophy or symbol of success. Also I get the point that they feel that they have recently won the title so should be able to compete with it, but the argument is never about competing, it’s about how they are owed a league title.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that a lot of that is strawman and numpties rather than the majority. Arsenal should absolutely be competing for the title, like. They've gone backwards and backwards and backwards. When they're top 10 should they not complain about no longer being in the Europa because they're not threatened by relegation?

 

Honestly, after the Pardew years of being told that we were 'where we should be' and being called 'deluded' for wanting more, you'd think football fans in general would take their own experiences into account and learn something.

[Mbemba Youre A Womble]

The whole 'big club' guff bores me to tears. Dozens of clubs in the country can justify themselves to be a big club - we've won this, we've won that, we've a big stadium, we've history etc. etc. All that is ultimately vacuous nonsense that somehow deludes fans, managers and owners into thinking that they have a right to achieve something, and football somehow owes them success.

 

Arsenal fans shouldn't be expecting to win the league or even compete for it in all honesty. Football is a forever changing landscape, and along with that expectation also has to change. The club has been left miles behind from their previous contemporaries, and inevitably been caught up by the investment into Chelsea and Man City, and again left in the dust by them. Most worryingly for them and have even been overtaken by Spurs - previously the perennial middling PL side.

 

On the most basic of levels, for 12 years, since Viera left - good players have left the club, and not been replaced with equal or higher quality. In football if you're standing still, you're going backwards. Simple fact is, Arsenal haven't even been standing still.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Arsenal are a huge club and while as an NUFC fan you could argue winning a few cups and finishing in the top 4 or 6 is the holy grail, for a club like Arsenal it should always be about trying to win the title and anything else considered a failure. My brother in law is a Gooner and wants Wenger out and I’d never say to him you’re spoilt because it’s about different expectations and standards. Arsenal have underachieved for over a decade and if I was a Gooner I’d say what is happening is unacceptable 100%. They have been overtaken by everyone, including Spurs, in that top echelon of big or super clubs. Obviously Man City and Chelsea have been helped massively thanks to a sugar daddy really, but it’s not like Arsenal can’t compete for wages and transfer fees as they can. It’s because Wenger keeps buying crap or the wrong players. Again there is nowt wrong with his philosophy which isn’t too off of Pep’s, but when you buy as poorly as he has over the last decade then you will struggle to challenge. Give him Pep’s team and he’d win the league IMO with that City side. His Arsenal side though lacks zero leaders, has too many similar players and mentally they are as weak as piss. No spine to the side either. A far cry from the side that went unbeaten and won the title at OT. Cup wins satisfy the record books, but not fans when they are used to winning the league or at least competing for it especially when they pay some of the highest ticket prices and see players being signed for over 50m plus. It’s just not good enough and their football has deteriorated massively. Their current squad is poor and needs major work done. They have let the wrong players go in Giroud, Sanchez and Walcott for example. PEA and the French striker are both good players but look totally out of place at Arsenal as things stand and to give Ozil a new contract... my brother in law was fuming with that one. Wilshere is probably their best player and he was at Bournemouth on loan last season. Wenger has to go and they need the Russian to oust the Yank.

[Tooj]

Letting Walcott go wasn't the wrong decision IMO.

 

Can't be arsed to read the rest.

[triggs]

Giroud proved many times that he wasn't good enough consistently and especially when he started against big teams. Sanchez was leaving in the summer anyway. Wilshere wasn't even a guaranteed starter at Bournemouth last season and isn't Arsenal's best player. You seem to just be repeating whatever your brother in law says

[Stifler]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that a lot of that is strawman and numpties rather than the majority. Arsenal should absolutely be competing for the title, like. They've gone backwards and backwards and backwards. When they're top 10 should they not complain about no longer being in the Europa because they're not threatened by relegation?

 

Honestly, after the Pardew years of being told that we were 'where we should be' and being called 'deluded' for wanting more, you'd think football fans in general would take their own experiences into account and learn something.

I get the point that they should in their mind be competing, I get that. however there is a lot of them (or latest they make up the vocal ones) who insist that winning the FA Cup doesn't count as success and that they are owed winning the title. It doesn't matter how big you are as a club, you are never owed winning success, and discrediting the FA Cup as success is a disgrace. Those arguing that they should be doing better, and should probably have a team competing, I get.

[wormy]

How many of them really feel they're owed a title? Feels like the same sort of argument that us NUFC fans rightly hate and have to battle with the whole 'deluded Geordies' moniker.

 

Fair play to the Arsenal fans for speaking up and stating Wenger's past it and won't have them challenging again as that's all I generally see or hear, not 'we should be winning the title'.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that a lot of that is strawman and numpties rather than the majority. Arsenal should absolutely be competing for the title, like. They've gone backwards and backwards and backwards. When they're top 10 should they not complain about no longer being in the Europa because they're not threatened by relegation?

 

Honestly, after the Pardew years of being told that we were 'where we should be' and being called 'deluded' for wanting more, you'd think football fans in general would take their own experiences into account and learn something.

I get the point that they should in their mind be competing, I get that. however there is a lot of them (or latest they make up the vocal ones) who insist that winning the FA Cup doesn't count as success and that they are owed winning the title. It doesn't matter how big you are as a club, you are never owed winning success, and discrediting the FA Cup as success is a disgrace. Those arguing that they should be doing better, and should probably have a team competing, I get.

 

The FA Cup isn't success for them though, that's the point, they used to win titles, then they competed for titles, then they competed for the top 4, then they competed for the cups, now they compete for the Europa. Of course they've gone backwards and although some of that is to do with the landscape changing and teams getting better, it's much more to do with them getting worse. Again, I don't believe for a second that there are a significant amount of Arsenal fans who think they're owed the title, like.

 

[Figures 1-0 Football]

Arsenal were good 10+ years ago, but they’re very average now and their squad is probably reflective of where they are in the league. Why should the FA Cup not be success to them? What else are they going to win? They’re not good enough as a group of players to compete to win anything else.