St James' Park

[TomYam]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

If you can point to an example of this I'm all ears like.  As far I can tell it's at least always the argument for a new stadium and at best a swing and a miss (Spurs)

Probably the majority of clubs have moved at some point in their history, sometimes for growth and development and sometimes relating to cost effectiveness or ownership issues. Those that have remained in situ bear little resemblance due the building and rebuilding of stands - even the pitches are relaid intermittently. 

 

In English football in recent years a number of big clubs or big new stadium moves have occurred - perhaps those most relevant to us are Arsenal and Tottenham. Both big clubs moving largely due to footprint constraints and within a short stroll from their previous home. From what I read and hear the supporters of both clubs are largely happy with the moves, although there is always a 'but' (...but it's not the same atmosphere....but there are so many new faces here.....but everything it's not like the old days...). That is normal and would undoubtedly hold true if we were ever to move home but, if done correctly, sentiment and nostalgia shouldn't hold the club back. Interestingly, I remember a huge number of supporters (surely the majority) were enthusiastic with Hall's plans to move to Castle Leazes back in the mid '90s. Have those fans' minds changed subsequently? 

 

Whatever happens, I'm sure all options will be considered, but the one thing that all fans agree with is that NUFC must remain in the city centre. 

 

[Wallsendmag]

3 hours ago, christ said:

After the first underwhelming season a load of people will fuck off in a huff.

 

Tbf we've been worse than shite for the past 15 years, suffering 2 relegations and knocked out the cups straight away yet crowds still usually hovered around the 50,000 mark.

[Kanji]

My guess is the stadium won’t ever move but they may have to sacrifice attendance for a season or two or three to rebuild existing stands and create more modernized concourses/fan areas while finding marginal capacity increases. 

[Groundhog63]

1 hour ago, Stifler said:

If we rebuilt SJP I’d absolutely love it if we did what Spurs did and made it so it can host NFL games as well. We already have a lot of Rugby games. I doubt the NFL will be coming to Newcastle though.

Thank fuck

[Yorkie]

I think in reality 52,000 isn't that far away from the limit in terms filling the place consistently. Any development will be as much about modernising the place generally and bringing it into the 2020s, probably including expanding the multi-use offering and the corporate experience, whilst trying to add as many seats as possible without a physical extension (though that will obviously be being explored too). 

[BottledDog]

Could we not feasibly have an extended roof and have seats running under them on tracks?

 

Bit like this, but with cup holders -

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just now, Yorkie said:

I think in reality 52,000 isn't that far away from the limit in terms filling the place consistently. Any development will be as much about modernising the place generally and bringing it into the 2020s, probably including expanding the multi-use offering and the corporate experience, whilst trying to add as many seats as possible without a physical extension (though that will obviously be being explored too). 

 

We were averaging over 51k last time we were in the Championship. Every game has been sold out since Ashley left. You really think demand wouldn't increase substantially if the club has the success that the owners want it to have over this next decade? 52,000 would be nowhere near enough.

[Joseph]

Who are the 20,000+ people that would come if we were more successful but aren't coming now? 

[Stifler]

If we get sustained success then the North East will by and large become NUFC fans. It is arguably in anyway, but you’ll start to see Sunderland’s catchment area decrease, as well as Boro’s. Depending on how Leeds do, we’ll possibly expand to have some sort of following in North Yorkshire as all, not to mention Cumbria.

[Happinesstan]

1 hour ago, The Butcher said:

NFL can get tae fuck. Utter shite sport. 

It's not utter shite but they can keep it in the US for all I care. It;s made for TV and I'm happy with it like that. Football's going that way, of course.

[Wallsendmag]

4 minutes ago, Joseph said:

Who are the 20,000+ people that would come if we were more successful but aren't coming now? 

 

You want their names?  Every home game this season has sold out on the day of sale to members (other than the L7 tickets that they put restrictions on stopping a lot of people buying plus the small amount they have to keep back for GS). If you think we've resched our ceiling interms of support then that's fair enough but I'm certain you're wrong.

 

We could have sold 60k+ for every home game this season if capacity was there.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Wallsendmag

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

We were averaging over 51k last time we were in the Championship. Every game has been sold out since Ashley left. You really think demand wouldn't increase substantially if the club has the success that the owners want it to have over this next decade? 52,000 would be nowhere near enough.

 

I think there'll be peaks and troughs in demand as time goes by but it will inevitably plateau once the new normal settles in, whatever that may be.

 

I'm not saying we couldn't consistently fill circa 60,000 seats; I just don't think 'demand' necessarily justifies moving location, particularly at the cost of all the romantic aspects. If they choose to stay put, reorganise things and gain only a modest increase, I think that would probably turn out to be a good decision. 

[Wallsendmag]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I think there'll be peaks and troughs in demand as time goes by but it will inevitably plateau once the new normal settles in, whatever that may be.

 

I'm not saying we couldn't consistently fill circa 60,000 seats; I just don't think 'demand' necessarily justifies moving location, particularly at the cost of all the romantic aspects. If they choose to stay put, reorganise things and gain only a modest increase, I think that would probably turn out to be a good decision. 

 

Demand at the moment could constantly fill 60k+ seats and the club haven't really done anything yet. 52,000 is nowhere near big enough for what's coming over the next few years and beyond. It's vital that the next generation of supporters aren't locked out like they were back in the 90s. I'm sure our new owners are mindful of that. Football as a spectator sport is more popular than ever now. If you'd told me 10 years ago that West Ham (a club with a far smaller fanbase than us) would be averaging 62,500 in 2022 I'd have laughed in your face!

 

They need to find a way of getting SJP to 60/65k. If not they've got a decision to make.

[Wallsendmag]

12 minutes ago, Stifler said:

If we get sustained success then the North East will by and large become NUFC fans. It is arguably in anyway, but you’ll start to see Sunderland’s catchment area decrease, as well as Boro’s. Depending on how Leeds do, we’ll possibly expand to have some sort of following in North Yorkshire as all, not to mention Cumbria.

 

We draw a huge support from South East Scotland as well which anyone on the Edinburgh - Newcastle train on a matchday will testify!

[Kanji]

I’d say 65k would be ideal capacity size. Takes care of the seat supply increase while still building a healthy waiting list for demand. 

[Whitley mag]

An increase in capacity by mirroring the Gallowgate with Leazes end would be disastrous for atmosphere in my opinion. The 52k redeveloped SJP doesn’t hold the noise like it did when 36k under Keegan.

 

If the club are set on staying at SJP I hope they can come up with some spectacular style single tier stand for the Gallowgate, what increase in capacity that would bring though I have no idea.

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Demand at the moment could constantly fill 60k+ seats and the club haven't really done anything yet. 52,000 is nowhere near big enough for what's coming over the next few years and beyond. It's vital that the next generation of supporters aren't locked out like they were back in the 90s. I'm sure our new owners are mindful of that. Football as a spectator sport is more popular than ever now. If you'd told me 10 years ago that West Ham (a club with a far smaller fanbase than us) would be averaging 62,500 in 2022 I'd have laughed in your face!

 

They need to find a way of getting SJP to 60/65k. If not they've got a decision to make.

 

I just don't see that as an issue personally but respect the point. Football is pretty accessible these days (not that there aren't issues, i.e. the ever-increasing monopoly of chargeable broadcasting).

 

I'd only been to about three games before I was an adult. 

[Dokko]

20k online trying to get 1k worth of season tickets at the start of the season would suggest were a good 15k short. 

 

If these guys are sticking around and going to deliver trophies and challenge for titles, then it's really difficult to put a limit on it. Whats for certain, is the demand will be great than at the start of this season, where realistically all we did was repair a damaged season and start the journey forward.

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

 

I just don't see that as an issue personally but respect the point. Football is pretty accessible these days (not that there aren't issues, i.e. the ever-increasing monopoly of chargeable broadcasting).

 

I'd only been to about three games before I was an adult. 

 

Opposite for me. My dad started taking me when I was 6 back in 1984 and that's what shaped me as a Newcastle fan as an impressionable kid back then (the Bobby Robson quote definitely applied to me!). I was hooked from such a young age and going to the match with my dad on a Saturday afternoon or sitting watching Ceefax or Oracle waiting for the page waiting for our score to come around) when we were away are my favourite childhood memories.

[Rafalove]

I’m sure the club will do proper diligence when deciding how much we should increase St James’ park

[Yorkie]

10 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Opposite for me. My dad started taking me when I was 6 back in 1984 and that's what shaped me as a Newcastle fan as an impressionable kid back then (the Bobby Robson quote definitely applied to me!). I was hooked from such a young age and going to the match with my dad on a Saturday afternoon or sitting watching Ceefax or Oracle waiting for the page waiting for our score to come around) when we were away are my favourite childhood memories.

 

Class.

 

I think my argument about this specific point would be summarised by saying: live access isn't the most important thing to guarantee supporting a club; it's the profound connection you have with it through family or local pride, or some other 'human' reason. I supported Newcastle cos my Dad did and tbh that sounds like the same as you.

[Wandy]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

I think in reality 52,000 isn't that far away from the limit in terms filling the place consistently. Any development will be as much about modernising the place generally and bringing it into the 2020s, probably including expanding the multi-use offering and the corporate experience, whilst trying to add as many seats as possible without a physical extension (though that will obviously be being explored too). 

 

If the club remains as as ambitious as it currently is then 52,000 is nowhere near enough. As has been pointed out earlier, there must have been at least 15,000 long-term ST holders who have walked away in the Ashley years who now cannot get back in.

 

Of course, the club must stay in the city centre....that is non-negotiable. But the idea that moving a few hundred yards north to Castle Leazes would "tear the soul" from the club is absolute bollocks. It would mean a bit more walking for a few minutes and that's it. 

 

Another very good reason for a fresh start in a new stadium is that, although many people want to come back, they also don't want to sit up in the Gods, which would be the only option in an extended SJP. 

 

The club needs a stadium that is basically a bigger version of how SJP looked in the 1990s. Symmetrical stands so that good views are accessible everywhere, and also that ensure the atmosphere is kept within the stadium.

 

People go on about the atmosphere at SJP but in reality it is pitiful compared to 25 years ago. That's due to the changed design of the stadium and also the many thousands of the more militant, vociferous supporters walking away. Only an all-new stadium will rectify those issues.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Wandy

[Wolfcastle]

1 hour ago, Joseph said:

Who are the 20,000+ people that would come if we were more successful but aren't coming now? 

The 10-15k that have left because of Ashley plus gloryhunters. Which will be in exces of 5,000, given there were 20,000 in 1992 increasing the gate from 21k to 36k with 10k on the waiting list - and football has grown exponentially since then.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

We were averaging over 51k last time we were in the Championship. Every game has been sold out since Ashley left. You really think demand wouldn't increase substantially if the club has the success that the owners want it to have over this next decade? 52,000 would be nowhere near enough.

Averaging over 51k in the Championship but you could always get a ticket for the match. That's the ideal situation really, I don't think we'd out grow 60k like 

[marki]

looking at this its time to move on