St James' Park

[Dokko]

Just now, LeeB said:

 

Aye, make it like the Mediterranean Village at the Metro Centre. Put Leazes Terrace inside the new stand and covert it into bars and restaurants.

 

Not 100% sure how that impacts its heritage status, but it lives on and becomes an important part of the club which its stood next to for decades.

[TheBrownBottle]

If we lived in a rational world, you’d knock the bugger down and pay the Mackems a fee to play at the SOS for a season or two.

 

But we don’t live in a rational world, and I’m not a rational person so I’d fucking hate that outcome like every other irrational person  

[TheBrownBottle]

Also, has the option of buying the Metro station and grouting the fucker ever been explored?  There seems to be far more Geordies keen on a spot of cultural vandalism at Leazes Terrace than there are those who’d be perfectly happy to get off at Haymarket or Monument and make their way from there.  Given that any Metro extension west looks completely unlikely what is the point of SJ Metro even being there?

[Ben]

23 minutes ago, Mr Pups said:

it's a familiar oversight, but Leazes terrace isn't the main problem with regard to the East stand. If light issues and all that other fucking environmental shit wasn't a problem then the East stand could easily go back with the road running underneath. St James' terrace (grade 2 listed) on the otherhand is almost a cunt hairs length away  

Imagine living in one of those houses.

[Whitley mag]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Also, has the option of buying the Metro station and grouting the fucker ever been explored?  There seems to be far more Geordies keen on a spot of cultural vandalism at Leazes Terrace than there are those who’d be perfectly happy to get off at Haymarket or Monument and make their way from there.  Given that any Metro extension west looks completely unlikely what is the point of SJ Metro even being there?

Talking of cultural vandalism was disgraceful when they got rid of the Gremlins and petrols dear graffiti on boot boy alley. Nothings sacred these days. 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

In terms of Strawberry Place, were an extension to the Gallowgate feasible (and I’m still not convinced that it is structurally unless something is done with the Metro station), then it is perfectly possible to build over the road and leave it intact (Ajax’s stadium has a motorway running under it).  Leaving Strawberry Place is situ is the easy bit.

 

As for Leazes Terrace, it won’t be touched and quite bloody right too.  There’s been enough unnecessary damage to Georgian Newcastle done over the years.

 

Adding a small additional tier onto the East Stand (which would need a full KD and rebuild on the current footprint) might be an option if you can get permission.

 

It all just looks like a fucking massive ball ache from a CE point of view.  The cost, if it can work, would be astronomical and completely unviable as a money-making venture.  If the PIF wants to spunk quarter of a billion on it, that’s their business tbf - just so long as the cost doesn’t land on the club’s accounts as a debt. 

As some people have mentioned could it not be repurposed and included in the planning?

A brand new 10000 seat East stand with a covered Georgian Pedestrian arcade that links straight to the new 8 star Hotel on LT.

Sorted.

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

As some people have mentioned could it not be repurposed and included in the planning?

A brand new 10000 seat East stand with a covered Georgian Pedestrian arcade that links straight to the new 8 star Hotel on LT.

Sorted.

Honestly, that sounds both horrendous and a no-goer to me.  

[ponsaelius]

Do tend to agree that the whole thing is possibly not viable from a traditional cost/benefit analysis considering the civil engineering work required for the gain in terms of seating. I suppose it comes down to what they think the long term value of the club would be worth 10-20 years down the line. In that sense all of the sunk costs on infrastructure don't necessarily need to make a return any time soon. We've probably got the only type of ownership that would justify the investment of £250 million for 8k seats.

[ponsaelius]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Honestly, that sounds both horrendous and a no-goer to me.  

 

Repurposing LT for another use could potentially be a goer (and indeed probably necessary if you ever want East Stand to by higher). Connecting any new development to it is not happening.

 

As pointed out above though it's arguably St James Terrace which is an even bigger issue.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by ponsaelius

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, ponsaelius said:

 

Repurposing LT for another use would potentially be a goer (and indeed probably necessary if you ever want East Stand to by higher). Connecting any new development to it is not happening.

 

As pointed out above though it's arguably St James Terrace which is an even bigger issue.

Yes, I can absolutely see Leazes Terrace no longer being residential property - though that doesn’t resolve right to light issues.  But building over it and the ideas around it being some sort of covered terrace like the pretend village in the Metro Centre?  Absolutely no chance.  
 

Agreed that’s it’s SJ Terrace which really hems in development.  Any works would likely have to sit within the existing East Stand footprint. 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Honestly, that sounds both horrendous and a no-goer to me.  

I was kind of joking but horrendous, for me the current look of Brutalist and and Georgian architecture on the same  street is not  good  like.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Doc

[ponsaelius]

9 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yes, I can absolutely see Leazes Terrace no longer being residential property - though that doesn’t resolve right to light issues.  But building over it and the ideas around it being some sort of covered terrace like the pretend village in the Metro Centre?  Absolutely no chance.  
 

Agreed that’s it’s SJ Terrace which really hems in development.  Any works would likely have to sit within the existing East Stand footprint. 

 

The right to light is an easement law which has nothing to do with planning. It can allow an individual to potentially prevent development which would prevent their receipt of light. Such a law is obviously irrelevant if ownership of both developments is in the same hands. In planning terms considerations of amenity IE light/sunlight/outlook remain material regardless of ownership but are a lot less of an issue if the impact is to a non residential use (office or hotel for example).

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by ponsaelius

[James]

Wasn’t there some demonstration before that the pitch could be turned 90 degrees and all the planning issues go away?

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

 

The right to light is an easement law which has nothing to do with planning. It can allow an individual to potentially prevent development which would prevent their receipt of light. Such a law is obviously irrelevant if ownership of both developments is in the same hands. In planning terms considerations of amenity IE light/sunlight/outlook are a lot less of an issue if it is non residential use (office or hotel for example).

 

 

 

Yep, I understand that - but it means that the change is usage is effectively permanent once the stand is built.  

 

1 minute ago, James said:

Wasn’t there some demonstration before that the pitch could be turned 90 degrees and all the planning issues go away?

You can, but it doesn’t remedy the issue of where the club plays while that goes on.  A full rebuild might as well take place. 

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

I wonder if the Reuben family who seem to own most of Newcastle & the PIF have given any thought as to what to do with the land ? 

[LeeB]

17 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yes, I can absolutely see Leazes Terrace no longer being residential property - though that doesn’t resolve right to light issues.  But building over it and the ideas around it being some sort of covered terrace like the pretend village in the Metro Centre?  Absolutely no chance.  
 

Agreed that’s it’s SJ Terrace which really hems in development.  Any works would likely have to sit within the existing East Stand footprint. 

 

I wasn't being serious 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, LeeB said:

 

I wasn't being serious 

There are some who are  

[TheBrownBottle]

I do think that Staveley and Ghoudossi are smart and engaged and will want all (or as many as possible) local stakeholders onboard, the Reubens are obviously savvy property developers and PIF won’t want any negative publicity given that their involvement already creates negative attention.  I’d be very surprised if any proposed changes to SJP go ahead without a shitload of comms work - which would likely take a couple of years.  They’re unlikely to blindly plough in without a care about consequences. 

[Dokko]

Adaptive Reuse. It's a thing and saved loads of buildings from ruin. Not the case here, but could solve a different problem.

[Ben]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I do think that Staveley and Ghoudossi are smart and engaged and will want all (or as many as possible) local stakeholders onboard, the Reubens are obviously savvy property developers and PIF won’t want any negative publicity given that their involvement already creates negative attention.  I’d be very surprised if any proposed changes to SJP go ahead without a shitload of comms work - which would likely take a couple of years.  They’re unlikely to blindly plough in without a care about consequences. 

I think the opposite, I reckon the plans are in place with a money no object expansion that will be a jewel in the crown of their 2030 plans, they have already offered to fund Greece's entire infrastucture build for the 2030 world cup.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Ben said:

I think the opposite, I reckon the plans are in place with a money no object expansion that will be a jewel in the crown of their 2030 plans, they have already offered to fund Greece's entire infrastucture build for the 2030 world cup.

You’d need to actually develop the plans - unless they’re planning on bringing in everyone from outside the NE, then no plans currently exist.

 

And they weren’t supposedly offering that to Greece as an act of generosity - it was so they could jointly host the WC, which would directly affect KSA.  That doesn’t mean that the same offer applies to NUFC, where KSA are looking to ultimately make a profit. 

[James]

Do what Man City kind of did, build a second stadium of 20,000 capacity for academy and ladies team and then relocate there for a couple of years when the rebuild happens

[MrRaspberryJam]

1 minute ago, James said:

Do what Man City kind of did, build a second stadium of 20,000 capacity for academy and ladies team and then relocate there for a couple of years when the rebuild happens

 

Probably best we don't follow their blueprint tbh. 

[madras]

51 minutes ago, James said:

Do what Man City kind of did, build a second stadium of 20,000 capacity for academy and ladies team and then relocate there for a couple of years when the rebuild happens

Tell those other 20,000 or so season ticket holders that they can't go for 2 seasons..... and I don't remember Man City relocating to a much smaller stadium while the new one was built.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by madras

[SteV]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I do think that Staveley and Ghoudossi are smart and engaged and will want all (or as many as possible) local stakeholders onboard, the Reubens are obviously savvy property developers and PIF won’t want any negative publicity given that their involvement already creates negative attention.  I’d be very surprised if any proposed changes to SJP go ahead without a shitload of comms work - which would likely take a couple of years.  They’re unlikely to blindly plough in without a care about consequences. 

Didn’t actually realise that Ghoudossi was an architect himself until I watched Hope’s latest Vlog.