St James' Park

[Whitley mag]

Exciting times ahead.

 

i also understands that stadium specialists who were contacted by the club in the early part of the feasibility study were uniform in their opinion that “bolting on” additional seats or adding piecemeal to St James’ Park would be costly and far from ideal in terms of aesthetics. 

It’s understood that an interim solution of a small increase in capacity or patching up the stadium – one of the options looked at originally – have been ruled out in favour of much more ambitious options.

[Tiresias]

Moving it is absolutely inevitable the money will win out. I know I'm not popular on this but leaving that location is absolutely heartbreaking imo. 

[Stifler]

2 hours ago, Heron said:

I was too and 100% understand this.

 

However, that is the risk we took. I lost all my loyalty points (around 80) and cannot get to away games.

 

I feel for you (and others like you) but I don't think we need say 20/30k increased capacity to accommodate those folk.

I can understand your concerns about leaving SJP, legitimate concerns.

Losing that historic bond, having a period of time where the atmosphere in a new ground would need to be generated etc.

I can see all your reasons to be honest, and I’ll not argue against those. Even myself, there are lot of musts that we require before I’d be ok with a move.

 

However I fail to see arguments of saying we don’t need such an increase in capacity. We honestly do. We have 100k members, we have at least 40k people on top of season ticket holders trying to get into each match. Some fans have already been shoved out for corporate, and with a 100 company waiting list for boxes, only more people will be moved on. We also do have to acknowledge PSR.

Arsenal are on about increasing their capacity to 80k, with more corporate facilities. Birmingham City have just announced that they want to build a 62k capacity stadium. Liverpool have rebuilt 3 stands of their ground in recents years, and will no doubt do the final stand soon.

Aston Villa will finalise their plans for Villa Park improvements, Man Utd will end up with their 90k-100k capacity toilet bowl, Everton are about to move into their new stadium, and Man City are currently expanding theirs.

Football as a whole is becoming more popular, and more in demand, heck we have nothing clubs like Crystal Palace needing to expand to fit in supporters.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:49 by Stifler

[Nepharite]

If a move to Castle Leazes/Leazes Park is ultimately delivered it makes sense to me that the City Centre sprawl of Newcastle would organically grow around the new stadium. Shops, bars, hotels and the like would be built and connect to the existing center. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:49 by Nepharite

[54]

If Leazes Park is such a big issue, I have a solution, underground stadium 50 metres deep. The Council gets there precious park, and we get a shiny new stadium.

 

As an aside, @TBG i'm disappointed you didn't make this post. 

[Whitley mag]

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:55 by Whitley mag

[Whitley mag]

Newcastle chiefs are working on new plans to expand the site of the current training ground, Confidential can exclusively reveal.

 

A gravel area currently used as a car park and where some staff are housed in cabins has been identified for the planned development, which will increase the footprint of the Benton base and accommodate an ever-growing backroom operation.

 

We have been told the move should not be misinterpreted as the club deciding against a new training ground, but it is an indicator that a brand-new development is still several years away.

Indeed, we can reveal that the club have taken out a five-year lease on the Northumberland FA building at Whitley Park, next door to the current site. This is now being used by the scouting, media and communications departments.

 

Discussions about a new training ground have been commonplace among staff and players in recent years, given the cramped nature of their North Tyneside home. However, there is now an acceptance that many of them will not see a new complex during their time at the club.

 

We understand ‘three to four’ sites have been shortlisted, including land near Newcastle Racecourse - owned by the Reuben family, who have a 15 per cent stake in the club - while the others are ‘in and around’ Ponteland, close to Newcastle Airport. Chief operating officer Brad Miller is leading the project and Ryder Architecture were involved in some early-stage drawings.

 

Newcastle's training ground is set to be expanded after being planned for a number of years 

The likes of Bruno Guimaraes (left) and Alexander Isak (right) were promised the expansion when they signed, and now it is set to finally happen 

 

But while the plans will be ambitious and a much-needed next step when it comes to offering players an elite, daily environment, the delay is said to have frustrated some.

 

Everything I’m hearing as this process continues is that option two is the most likely. Indeed, when I wrote for Mail Sport last month that I had changed my mind and now favoured a move to a new stadium - instead of staying at St James’ - there were some inside the club keen to know more about a social-media poll I ran asking what option supporters preferred.

[Abacus]

8 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Newcastle's training ground is set to be expanded after being planned for a number of years 

The likes of Bruno Guimaraes (left) and Alexander Isak (right) were promised the expansion when they signed...

 

 

Confused. I thought a previous regime reckoned that players don't sign based on the state of the training ground.

[OpenC]

1 hour ago, Nepharite said:

If a move to Castle Leazes/Leazes Park is ultimately delivered it makes sense to me that the City Centre sprawl of Newcastle would organically grow around the new stadium. Shops, bars, hotels and the like would be built and connect to the existing center. 

 

 

 

 

I keep reading this but I just don't see it. Who's opening a business in an out of the way part of town that only gets significant footfall once a week at best? Where is the organic growth around the stadium of light? They wheel in the funfair stands full of sweeties and blue pop on matchday.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 18:50 by OpenC

[Stifler]

1 hour ago, OpenC said:

I keep reading this but I just don't see it. Who's opening a business in an out of the way part of town that only gets significant footfall once a week at best? Where is the organic growth around the stadium of light? They wheel in the funfair stands full of sweeties and blue pop on matchday.

In all fairness, Castle Leazes Hall is being demolished for a student village.

The flats on Barrack Road are a disgrace for living standards in 2024. It would be much better that they were replaced with mixed use units (retail/hospitality on the ground floor, residential on the upper floors).

Matchday, and events would bring much more footfall to that area, as well as a bigger influx in residents, and students.

 

Even at the SOL, it is changing, with permanent facilities being constructed around the stadium, and ones that are not matchday dependant. I believe some of it is residential/student accommodation, with other outlets. There are 2 new pedestrian bridges being built, one going Sheepfolds, which has just been converted into a hospitality venue.

Another will go directly to Sunderland centre, passing the new buildings they are building on the river bank.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 20:12 by Stifler

[Nepharite]

1 hour ago, OpenC said:

 

I keep reading this but I just don't see it. Who's opening a business in an out of the way part of town that only gets significant footfall once a week at best? Where is the organic growth around the stadium of light? They wheel in the funfair stands full of sweeties and blue pop on matchday.

 

 

 

Howay now there's absolutely no comparison here. 

[Disco]

1 hour ago, OpenC said:

 

I keep reading this but I just don't see it. Who's opening a business in an out of the way part of town that only gets significant footfall once a week at best? Where is the organic growth around the stadium of light? They wheel in the funfair stands full of sweeties and blue pop on matchday.

 

 

 

OC is hereby barred from Uncle Disco’s Biscuity Bonanza opening next to the blood bank. 

[RS]

2 seasons at a redeveloped Gateshead fc  with a 35-40k capacity while St James’ is rebuilt 200m further North and West than the current ground. Capacity increased to 80k. 

[bobbydazzla]

44 minutes ago, RS said:

2 seasons at a redeveloped Gateshead fc  with a 35-40k capacity while St James’ is rebuilt 200m further North and West than the current ground. Capacity increased to 80k. 

Guns n Roses play the opening ceremony of the redeveloped Gateshead stadium 

[Wallsendmag]

3 hours ago, ramirez said:

I think that’s partly to do with demand for the first two and obviously not a great look to have a new, half full ground. The Sunderland ground in particular was huge for a team of their size at the time, especially when freshly relegated. 

 

Tbf Boro sold out every single game for the first few years at the Riverside and they ended up expanding it.

[TheBrownBottle]

19 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Tbf Boro sold out every single game for the first few years at the Riverside and they ended up expanding it.

True - though the SOS cost the same as Alan Shearer (before they expanded it).  Our new ground will cost a lot more - but I wouldn’t expect the club to be passing top much of that cost on; the idea should be to maximise revenues for PSR

[TheBrownBottle]

3 hours ago, Nepharite said:

If a move to Castle Leazes/Leazes Park is ultimately delivered it makes sense to me that the City Centre sprawl of Newcastle would organically grow around the new stadium. Shops, bars, hotels and the like would be built and connect to the existing center. 

 

 

 

That’s never happened elsewhere mind.  Not that it should stop anything - and I’m amazed that people would whinge about walking an extra couple of hundred metres (there are some right lazy buggers kicking around).  It would be adding about five minutes of walking time for those who currently are in the Leazes End.  

[TheBrownBottle]

Unpopular thought - the club’s owners won’t give a flying one re local businesses’ drop in revenues.  If anything, NUFC’s city centre location has a retardant effect on match day revenues.  I seriously doubt that the Saudi PIF would give a shite if the Three Bulls was selling 25% fewer pints on a match day.  

[gjohnson]

I dount it would even make much difference to local business. People will still go to the centre for food and drink before and after match....its not like there's another area within 80 miles people would go to instead. 

 

If people can't tolerate a a little extra travel time without a pint then they've bigger problems than actually getting there to watch the match.

 

[DiddyLevine]

So , let me get this straight . TynesideLife was wrong when he said there would be no new stadium built on Castle Leeezers ? 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

22 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

I dount it would even make much difference to local business. People will still go to the centre for food and drink before and after match....its not like there's another area within 80 miles people would go to instead. 

 

If people can't tolerate a a little extra travel time without a pint then they've bigger problems than actually getting there to watch the match.

 

 

I think it would be pretty huge. Right now people can keep drinking until 30 minutes before KO, later in some cases.

 

Full impact depends if it was walkable to town. 

 

In any case, the presence of the club is one of the city's main character features, so IMO it would be disastrous to change that. 

[r0cafella]

8 hours ago, Heron said:

In your previous point you were alluding to the fact that fans won't support Newcastle if they cannot get to their games. I think whilst that may be somewhat correct, it is not the largest driving factor for why fans won't support Newcastle. If we're a good team who play good football - that is what will ultimately drive people to support us.

 

I'd be surprised if most folk in Newcastle (and it's surrounding areas) choose not to support Newcastle, especially if we're a good side. Most Man United fans globally will probably only ever once get to Old Trafford but thy exist in what is most likely their hundreds of thousands (if not millions) because they were the dominant force of English football. Man City probably now has grown its support for the same reason.

 

Again, appreciate that adds weight to increasing stadium size and increasing revenue to become the financial egg that the good-football chicken is hatched from. However, it is only the case because of FFP and PSR etc. Why invest billions(?) On a new stadium that it would take decades to see a return on if it was just for a return on national PR by having the best footballing side available/dominance in a sporting field? They could simply spend that money on better training facilities, staff and players (were there to be no FFP, etc.).

 

St James' Park may not have the capacity to play host to every Newcastle fan or enough that would be deemed satisfactory, you're right - we can agree. However, what about other factors?

 

What about the fact that ticket prices will likely shoot up to help pay for it and boost revenue (to achieve a higher FFP/PSR) capability? Thus meaning some fans are priced out.

 

What about if they do not consider standing or singing sections to ensure there is a good atmosphere?

 

What about if they don't consider the acoustics of the stadium?

 

What about if most the additional capacity is corporate?

 

What about if it's a big Green and White Stadium and called the Aramco Arena with little link to Newcastle's history?

 

What about the loss of activity in the town centre of it relocated a sufficient distance out?

 

People may want this new American kind of style entertainment with light shows and 5 star meals available and all that jazz but it's not for me. I don't want my ticket price going up and the atmosphere being lost and ultimately part of the soul that is Newcastle United so that potentially an extra 10/20k fans can have a day out.

 

We can (most likely) increase the capacity at SJP (for those who'd like to regularly attend) without the need for a relocation of the stadium, and avoid much of the above. Of course - in my opinion.

I wasn't alluding to fans no longer supporting us, it's more a question of fairness and custodianship. Why should younger fans get the short end of the stick of not enjoying the same privileges as other fans? What is the reason for this? Makes no sense to me at least. 

 

Your kind of looking at the finances from the wrong angle here, it's not about a return when it comes to premier league investments in a P&L sense it's all about the value of the club. According to Forbes City are worth 4b and the UAE have invested 1,7b so those people (not you btw) who claim they are wasting money terrible investment etc are clearly misguided. 

 

So back to the stadium, as we know the stadium is more than just a place we play our home games, it already holds multiple functions such as being our offices, boardroom etc and we know those facilities are also below par, I remember watching the video of the changing room when they "upgraded" and included a warm up area it was truly embarrassing. 

 

With regards to pricing ticket prices will be going up regardless as is the trend In the entire economy, no way of getting around it. I'd actually argue the potential for unsavoury behaviour from the club is increased at SJP as seating areas will be reconfigured and people will be moved to make way. 

 

Acoustics are simple and should be the heart of any design, that being said any atmosphere is created by the fans if they sit in silence for 90 mins then no amount of acoustic engineering will save it.

 

If your building a new stadium things such as singing sections and safe standing sections can be baked in via the design process. 

 

Any additional capacity will obviously be a mix, and as Miller confirmed we can accommodate a lot more people at a new ground, I'm glad the club has come out on record and clarified this point personally but the official acknowledgement that being at SJP will/is holding us back is welcomed by myself. 

 

The history arguement is one which I must admit doesn't make sense to me, because the history doesn't change if we move, nothing which has gone changes we still have our fantastic memories and they can't be taken away. This is a discussion about the figure and not about the past and when you look at it through that Lens the perspective should shift accordingly because the choice is stark. The choice is stagnate in place which will eventually lead to our decline and inability to compete OR push forwards and fight to compete at the highest level with best in class facilities. 

[Heron]

6 hours ago, Mag3.14 said:

 

It's more certain this will happen with the current or slightly expanded SJP in order to generate revenue, certainly will be a bigger rise than it would with a newer stadium with more corporate facilities available 

 

 

But the cost to cover expansion would be less. So whilst it may be more a certainty it (the price hike) may also be less in value. I suppose you could argue that the increase in corporate seats and capacity would offset said price hike to make them similar but in all honesty, I doubt it.

[Heron]

6 hours ago, Stifler said:

I can understand your concerns about leaving SJP, legitimate concerns.

Losing that historic bond, having a period of time where the atmosphere in a new ground would need to be generated etc.

I can see all your reasons to be honest, and I’ll not argue against those. Even myself, there are lot of musts that we require before I’d be ok with a move.

 

However I fail to see arguments of saying we don’t need such an increase in capacity. We honestly do. We have 100k members, we have at least 40k people on top of season ticket holders trying to get into each match. Some fans have already been shoved out for corporate, and with a 100 company waiting list for boxes, only more people will be moved on. We also do have to acknowledge PSR.

Arsenal are on about increasing their capacity to 80k, with more corporate facilities. Birmingham City have just announced that they want to build a 62k capacity stadium. Liverpool have rebuilt 3 stands of their ground in recents years, and will no doubt do the final stand soon.

Aston Villa will finalise their plans for Villa Park improvements, Man Utd will end up with their 90k-100k capacity toilet bowl, Everton are about to move into their new stadium, and Man City are currently expanding theirs.

Football as a whole is becoming more popular, and more in demand, heck we have nothing clubs like Crystal Palace needing to expand to fit in supporters.

 

 

 

Fair enough - I just question this popularity of the game to be honest.

 

Tin hat here but I feel that a lot of this additional popularity is as spectators or folk looking for sporting entertainment as opposed to supporters. I mean they're entitled to be entertained too.

 

It's just going away from what football is for me. If the PL is going to continue in this way then it needs a real European style intervention whereby full stands are for singers and chanters and tifo displays and all that jazz and clubs are rightly represented by those singing for a clubs heritage and history and what it means not some jonny come lately who has bow decided they might take in a nice game at NUFC before the "support" the next "big thing" in a few years when we take a down turn.

 

I'm really not arsed about catering for those types tbh.

 

But you are right - it is the financial reality.

[et tu brute]

9 minutes ago, Heron said:

But the cost to cover expansion would be less. So whilst it may be more a certainty it (the price hike) may also be less in value. I suppose you could argue that the increase in corporate seats and capacity would offset said price hike to make them similar but in all honesty, I doubt it.

You're not taking into account other events which can be held at a new stadium. Unable to do this currently with the size of the entrance /exits into the stadium. The executives said yesterday that the revenue would be double that of SJP. Extending the current stadium would be at a huge cost with very little opportunity for revenue growth. A new stadium is just a no brainer all round.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 23:54 by et tu brute