Roeder - simply not good enough?

[Guest]

This new Academy bloke (Joyce is it?) seems like he knows what he's doing mind. Talks a lot of sense from some of the interviews I've seen from him in the Chronicle, etc.

[mrmojorisin75]

what you mean is you didn't READ about us scouting martins 'til you did and you read about us scouting kuyt when you did

 

neither of the above 2 versions of events necessarily correspond with what happened in reality - if roeder only had a look at martins when it started to come out in the press then it's at odds with everything else he's done before and after, and ultimately qualifies as a panic buy that came good

 

i don't believe that for a second

 

woodgates a mystery - i openly admit to not reading everything about the story but my assumption would be that he might have come to SJP and talked to the fat man, who wanted him back, whilst maybe he never actually spoke to roedebot?

[Mick]

what you mean is you didn't READ about us scouting martins 'til you did and you read about us scouting kuyt when you did

 

neither of the above 2 versions of events necessarily correspond with what happened in reality - if roeder only had a look at martins when it started to come out in the press then it's at odds with everything else he's done before and after, and ultimately qualifies as a panic buy that came good

 

i don't believe that for a second

 

woodgates a mystery - i openly admit to not reading everything about the story but my assumption would be that he might have come to SJP and talked to the fat man, who wanted him back, whilst maybe he never actually spoke to roedebot?

 

We'll never really know, the Martins transfer only kicked in once Milan brought two new forwards in and Martins started to say that he wanted away because of a lack of first team opportunities.

[mrmojorisin75]

what you mean is you didn't READ about us scouting martins 'til you did and you read about us scouting kuyt when you did

 

neither of the above 2 versions of events necessarily correspond with what happened in reality - if roeder only had a look at martins when it started to come out in the press then it's at odds with everything else he's done before and after, and ultimately qualifies as a panic buy that came good

 

i don't believe that for a second

 

woodgates a mystery - i openly admit to not reading everything about the story but my assumption would be that he might have come to SJP and talked to the fat man, who wanted him back, whilst maybe he never actually spoke to roedebot?

 

We'll never really know, the Martins transfer only kicked in once Milan brought two new forwards in and Martins started to say that he wanted away because of a lack of first team opportunities.

 

true, we'll never know

 

only thing with him is he was maybe considered less a gamble than kuyt due to playing in a more competitive league and scoring goals in the CL prior to leaving...might have been on the radar since we played them, when i seem to recall he had a decent game in the away leg....

[BottledDog]

He's out of his depths here. Let him go back to the academy and let him help bring through some more stars such as O'Brien & Pattison.

 

Arf.

[Kimbo]

I'd like to see him go at the end of the season and take the old boys club(Clark and McDerrmot) with him,... ideally Shepherd would go with them but you can't have everything.

 

Shepherd likes to go for big name players, so why doesn't he go for a big name manager?!?! The manager's position is the most important at the club(bar chairman ofcourse) so why doesn't he offer some mega wages like he does with the likes of Owen, Emre, Duff etc???

[BottledDog]

I'd like to see him go at the end of the season and take the old boys club(Clark and McDerrmot) with him,... ideally Shepherd would go with them but you can't have everything.

 

Shepherd likes to go for big name players, so why doesn't he go for a big name manager?!?! The manager's position is the most important at the club(bar chairman ofcourse) so why doesn't he offer some mega wages like he does with the likes of Owen, Emre, Duff etc???

 

Shepherd said his time would be up if he got the next managerial appointment wrong (Roeder).

 

I'm happy to hold him to that if Glenn goes. 

[Mick]

I'd like to see him go at the end of the season and take the old boys club(Clark and McDerrmot) with him,... ideally Shepherd would go with them but you can't have everything.

 

Shepherd likes to go for big name players, so why doesn't he go for a big name manager?!?! The manager's position is the most important at the club(bar chairman ofcourse) so why doesn't he offer some mega wages like he does with the likes of Owen, Emre, Duff etc???

 

Shepherd said his time would be up if he got the next managerial appointment wrong (Roeder).

 

I'm happy to hold him to that if Glenn goes. 

 

More importantly, NE5 also said that Shepherd should go if he got this one wrong.

[Yorkie]

My opinion of Roeder:

 

He's an average manager doing a decent job. I feel that he would be an excellent Premier League coach, but is not an excellent Premier League manager. Yet.

 

One of the reasons for why i think he'd be a great coach, is because i think he works well with the players on an individual level. He appears to have confidence in all of his players and, on numerous occassions, he has managed to grind the best out of one or two that have previously performed in fits and spurts.

 

Players that have improved gradually and/or dramatically this season:

 

Steven Taylor

Nolberto Solano

Nicky Butt

James Milner

Kieron Dyer

Antoine Sibierski

Obafemi Martins

 

Roeder knows how to deal with his players on an individual level, which i feel is a massive asset that a good coach should have. Whether it be a position change, a holiday, or simply a confidence boost via the media, he has managed to squeeze out the obvious qualities that the above players have. He knows what to do with the players on a personal level. He knows how to make them better.

 

Alright, you could rebound that by giving examples such as Carr, Ramage, Luque, Duff, etc. But - you look at the majority of our defensive players, those that haven't improved, and you've simply got to say that the best manager in the world wouldn't improve them. Because they're simply not good enough.

 

Roeder knows his players.

 

Also, Roeder has stabilised the atmosphere at St James' Park and in the dressing room. Under Souness, the place was a mess and everybody knew it. Even when things picked up, something wasn't going right - whether it be on the pitch (Clark, Emre, Parker running into each other), or in the dressing room. You don't really get any of that now, under Roeder. Players know what they are doing; fair enough, one or two decisions starting line up-wise may raise a few eyebrows, but all of the players know there place. And i think Roeder should be congratulated for that.

 

That's what Roeder has done. He has steadied the ship at Newcastle. We might have a squad decent enough to be higher than where we are at the moment, but maybe people are requesting a little too much from Glenn Roeder in his first season. The place was such a shithole before he came, he has done remarkably well to just ease things and get us into a respectable position again. Premier League table-wise aswell as respectability in terms of commitment and general performance on and off the field.

 

These are the sort of traits that a great coach has. Excellent treatment of the players, generally on a personal level.

 

However, a great manager must have a good tactical awareness and a decent abililty to pick the team, on top of all the above traits. This is what Roeder doesn't really possess. His decision-making is inconsistent and erratic. Though, within a year or so's more time, maybe he will learn from his experiences and consequently develop as a manager.

 

What i feel we should do is:

 

• Let him see out his contract, unless something goes dramatically wrong within the next two years
  
• He's a capable manager, unlike Souness, so he warrants some time given
  
• Allow him this summer to properly build his squad; give him another chance in the transfer market
  

 

Like i say he's only steadied the ship at Newcastle, so don't expect an awful lot just yet.

 

Let's study irony for a second. Can anyone tell me what exactly Bobby Robson did in his first two years in charge of Newcastle United? What positions did we finish? Where exactly were we going before he came in and, exactly like Roeder, steadied the ship?

 

Exactly.

[Ally]

Agree with most of the above, but theres no way Dyer has improved this season. He's as shit, gutless and pointless as he's ever been.

[Slugsy]

Keeping Roeder for more than the end of this season will be a great indication of the level of ambition this club has.  Roeder may have steadied this ship but he is clearly not the man to take us forward.  Another season of Roeder will only allow more ambitious clubs (and I include the likes of Bolton in this) to get further ahead of us.

 

We can't afford another season of mediocrity.

 

 

[junkhead]

Keeping Roeder for more than the end of this season will be a great indication of the level of ambition this club has.  Roeder may have steadied this ship but he is clearly not the man to take us forward.  Another season of Roeder will only allow more ambitious clubs (and I include the likes of Bolton in this) to get further ahead of us.

 

We can't afford another season of mediocrity.

 

 

the thing is we can and Shepherd knows it..

[mrmojorisin75]

Keeping Roeder for more than the end of this season will be a great indication of the level of ambition this club has.  Roeder may have steadied this ship but he is clearly not the man to take us forward.  Another season of Roeder will only allow more ambitious clubs (and I include the likes of Bolton in this) to get further ahead of us.

 

We can't afford another season of mediocrity.

 

 

the thing is we can and Shepherd knows it..

 

yup, the only thing that would shock him into any sort of action was if season ticket sales dropped 10-15,000 (and they won't)

[Skirge]

So sack Glenn and give the job to who ?

Who would want the job anyway?

Oh aye Steve fkn Bruce wants it!

 

For once this club needs to stand by a manager, bring in some more help for Glenn maybe but do not sack him. a better coaching staff would be a great help, Big Nige made a difference to us straight away when he replaced Bond.

Beg KK to  come back and work alongside Roeder!!

[Guest Gemmill]

The game at the weekend was a glimpse of where we're headed under Roeder.  It was mid-table shit vs mid-table shit.  If we keep Roeder in charge, that sort of dross will become the norm.

[Tooj]

One thing that's always puzzled me over the last couple of years is we always play to the level of opposition we're versing, for example against the so called bigger clubs we seem to at least raise our game and know we have to do something, then against the teams at the bottom end of the scale we drag our performances down to their level.

[Skirge]

MON - doing shit with Villa. (we had a lucky escape)

Hitzfeld -  doing great with Byern right now.

Hitzfeld has said he will not stay at Byern, but could we get him here ? he is the only man I would even bother sacking Roeder for, or we would just end up with more of the same shit .

[Guest Gemmill]

One thing that's always puzzled me over the last couple of years is we always play to the level of opposition we're versing, for example against the so called bigger clubs we seem to at least raise our game and know we have to do something, then against the teams at the bottom end of the scale we drag our performances down to their level.

 

I think it's an issue of motivation tbh.  The players can get themselves up for the big games cos they feel they have something to prove.  But if you wheel some shit opposition in to SJP, they seem to think that all they need to do is turn up - the games against Charlton and Sheff United were perfect examples of this (crap teams turning up and outbattling us).  The players have been getting away with it for far too long imo.

[juniatmoko]

MON - doing s*** with Villa. (we had a lucky escape)

Hitzfeld -  doing great with Byern right now.

Hitzfeld has said he will not stay at Byern, but could we get him here ? he is the only man I would even bother sacking Roeder for, or we would just end up with more of the same s*** .

 

Juande Ramos tbh.

[BottledDog]

So sack Glenn and give the job to who ?

Who would want the job anyway?

Oh aye Steve fkn Bruce wants it!

 

For once this club needs to stand by a manager, bring in some more help for Glenn maybe but do not sack him. a better coaching staff would be a great help, Big Nige made a difference to us straight away when he replaced Bond.

Beg KK to  come back and work alongside Roeder!!

 

Ugh. Most defeatist arguement evar!

 

There are enough managers out their that supporters can have faith in from the start and have records that deserve that time, it is up to the Chairman to track them down and woo them.

 

There is a suggestion for one in the post above this. Attaboy Freddy.

[juniatmoko]

Roeder is already done decent job... but newcastle demand more forward... i don't say we just sacked him... we bring him back to the youth again... i am happy for roeder btw.

[lovejoy]

i am just becoming insreasingly annoyed with the fact that he hasnt got any bollocks.

 

we suffered last week at wigan because he couldnt make a decision on which centre half to drop, so he played 4, this week he didnt have the balls to sub charles because he would moan (as he apparently does) or sub parker or butt, who do the same job (play dyer centrally and sib and martins up top), so he pulled off milner, the easy option.

 

funny thing is, i think teh injuries have saved him his jiob, as they have lowered expectation, but it eill be having everyone fit that gets him sacked, because he cant make a fucking decision, so the team suffers as a result.

 

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Players that have improved gradually and/or dramatically this season:

 

Steven Taylor  Taylor hasn't improved beyond how he was under Souness if you ask me.

Nolberto Solano  You do realize that Solano was good before Roeder don't you?

Nicky Butt  He was pretty good last season for Birmingham IMO.  He was shit under Souness though admittedly.

James Milner  He has improved this season, yes.  Not sure it's down to Roeder's treatment of him though (how long does it take to get to Birmingham?)

Kieron Dyer  Improved?  He's the same player he always was.  Just back from injury

Antoine Sibierski  Had a run of games where he wasn't shit.  Now that he's settled in, he pretty much is again

Obafemi Martins  Really?  From his days at Inter, he has actually improved?

 

Also, Roeder has stabilised the atmosphere at St James' Park and in the dressing room. Under Souness, the place was a mess and everybody knew it. Even when things picked up, something wasn't going right - whether it be on the pitch (Clark, Emre, Parker running into each other), or in the dressing room. You don't really get any of that now, under Roeder. Players know what they are doing; fair enough, one or two decisions starting line up-wise may raise a few eyebrows, but all of the players know there place. And i think Roeder should be congratulated for that.

 

Apparently, Scott Parker doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing.  Go forward or drop back? 

 

Titus Bramble doesn't know what he's doing.  Unless, Roeder wants him to waste possession at every given opportunity.

 

What i feel we should do is:

 

• Let him see out his contract, unless something goes dramatically wrong within the next two years
  
• He's a capable manager, unlike Souness, so he warrants some time given
  
• Allow him this summer to properly build his squad; give him another chance in the transfer market
  

 

The list is pretty much the same thing written differently three times. 

[Skirge]

Thing is if we had sacked Glenn and got MON in do you think we would be higher than we are now? or in trouble like Villa are?

There are no guarantees in football and we could just go from bad to worse if we sack another manager. The sacking of Souness was a must where as the sacking of SBR was not! We have sufferd from that very moment as soon as SBR left we have been going backwards, we had a slight lift under Roeder when they all pulled together and got us into the Intertoto and then worked hard to get us well intot he EUFA cup.

Now we need to get behind Glenn and hope he can turn it around again, its the only REAL option we have!

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm encouraged by Glenn's transfers in a way. I think he would have made more required signings if the backing from the club had been there and/or there were the right players available. I really believe he was looking for a left back, for example (maybe blind faith!)

 

Let's give Glenn another chance in the market, I think he will do well with the amount of money that SBR and Souness were backed with. Stability is underrated in the North East but is important, sacking now would not be the answer IMO.