Next signing an experienced centre-half for 'free' (Chronicle)

[Baggio]

It's Christian Dailly in a swap for Dyer.

 

Good signing IMO, stick a heart rate monitor on his chest, sort out his nutrition and use a bit of psychology on him and he'll be like Matthias Sammer by August 11th.

[Rich]

Penny pinching in defence again. Will this club ever learn?

 

Looking at the defence we put out against Juventus I think it'd be an understatement to say we need some investment in that area. If you believe we're targetting freebies purely because they're the right people for the job then good for you, but I think it's because the money isn't there and we're getting whatever we can, a view backed up by practically all of Allardyce's comments over the last couple of weeks ("can't guarantee quality but ill get some numbers in", "targets are disappearing rapidly", "missed out on loads of players recently", "clubs like fulham are spending much more than us", "I need to convince the new owners to spend and quickly" etc etc etc).

 

Fair enough, but you've yet again completely ignored the relevant points that numerous people have made about the very recent takeover, the club's debt, the difficulty we might be having attracting players, etc.

 

It's a waste of time looking at things on such a simplistic level, man. Ashley de-listed the club 12 days ago and alright, we might not have money in the immediate short-term while this infamous "review" is undertaken and while things are sorted out from top-to-bottom (I notice the board are backing Allardyce's backroom rebuilding plans, which won't be exactly "cheap" and which people seem to completely be ignoring while they claim he's going to be forced out.)

 

Where is it written that you absolutely positively need to spend big, solid money to do well/build a solid foundation?

 

Surely you can appreciate it that it might take more than 12 days (or a month or two at the most since they started buying shares/taking full control) to come in and decided what route to take a multi-million pound business. As Gemmill said, it's unfortunate that it's happened in the summer and it's perhaps "unfortunate" that the likes of Man City don't seem to be suffering the same problems, but perhaps they're not doing things the right way and we are.

 

How many of us were calling for a massive upheaval at this football club just a few short months ago?

 

Well we're getting it and people still aren't fucking happy because we're not doing that AND spending millions at the same time.

 

Beggars belief and shows us up as supporters.

[Rich]

It's Christian Dailly in a swap for Dyer.

 

Good signing IMO, stick a heart rate monitor on his chest, sort out his nutrition and use a bit of psychology on him and he'll be like Matthias Sammer by August 11th.

 

 

The post where the month-long wind-up attempt went one step too far.

[STM]

I'll have until at least September 1st 2008, if that's alright.

 

Shepherd had a decade here to get things right, and he didn't start losing me until towards the very end despite some serious ups and downs along the way. In fact, with him bringing Allardyce in he'd as good as won me round again to the point where I didn't mind him having one final roll of the dice on his terms (but bear in mind my complete ignorance of the financial side of things, which some say were getting very worrying.)

 

Ashley's had about a month here, hasn't yet done anything to be majorly criticised for (outside of what's been speculated) and I haven't got an opinion either way on him just yet.

 

Surely that's fair enough?

 

As I said, but having a board who's manager is coming out in the press and saying "they know nothing about football" doesn't look too good does it ?

 

I didn't expect Ashley to bankroll the club, unlike others, but this could be a bad situation. They have got to wise up, and you have to face the real possibility that they may not have the ambition you thought they would. Time will tell.

 

 

I don't have any preconceptions about them, that's the whole point. I didn't buy into this "£50M budget", "unlimited fee for a megastar" stuff and I don't buy into the fact that Allardyce is now getting nothing. I can understand people getting twitchy with the lack of activity, but from the looks of it things are certainly not being missed out on because of the want of trying. As you say, time will tell.

 

I do see your concerns about their lack of football knowledge and it's obviously the case otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure what else we expected? Was Shepherd too ill to be of any real use to them in the early stages? Did they discover some things on his part that were unforgivable enough to get shot of him straight away? Did he want to help them anyway? We don't know the full story, as always, which is a f****** killer on here.

 

If I can speculate on a personal level: to me it seems like David Dein would have been their ideal solution to this problem because of his knowledge and it certainly seems like they've been forced into biting off more than they can chew on a personal level (especially Mort) after this didn't come off... and also that Big Sam might be doing the jobs of a "DOF" and a manager at the moment. Something, which if true, will obviously need resolving sooner rather than later - but on both Sam and the board's terms, not just one or the other.

 

This obviously shows that I do have personal concerns about things, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know better than those involved at the club currently and I certainly don't know what they do about the takeover/finances/etc.

 

I can appreciate, however, that the changes we've seen/will see are absolutely massive and will perhaps eclipse anything we've seen before at this club, yourself included. All we can really do is hope for the best for now.

 

The optimism I feel is solely down to Allardyce. The board have done absolutely nothing yet. I hope they do. If they don't do any more, or generate more money, than the old board, what then ? If they don't back him so much, what then ? Face facts, so far they haven't shown much inclination. They know nowt about football, that in itself is pretty damning. You don't have to know anything about football to know that you need to back your managers if you want success and get among the money, if thats his objective.

 

I've no doubt that there has been some changes, and will be more, but at the moment they appear to be Allardyce inspired ones, unless he goes.

 

 

 

"they know nowt about football" Where is your evidence of this?

[Guest Pie]

I'll have until at least September 1st 2008, if that's alright.

 

Shepherd had a decade here to get things right, and he didn't start losing me until towards the very end despite some serious ups and downs along the way. In fact, with him bringing Allardyce in he'd as good as won me round again to the point where I didn't mind him having one final roll of the dice on his terms (but bear in mind my complete ignorance of the financial side of things, which some say were getting very worrying.)

 

Ashley's had about a month here, hasn't yet done anything to be majorly criticised for (outside of what's been speculated) and I haven't got an opinion either way on him just yet.

 

Surely that's fair enough?

 

As I said, but having a board who's manager is coming out in the press and saying "they know nothing about football" doesn't look too good does it ?

 

I didn't expect Ashley to bankroll the club, unlike others, but this could be a bad situation. They have got to wise up, and you have to face the real possibility that they may not have the ambition you thought they would. Time will tell.

 

 

I don't have any preconceptions about them, that's the whole point. I didn't buy into this "£50M budget", "unlimited fee for a megastar" stuff and I don't buy into the fact that Allardyce is now getting nothing. I can understand people getting twitchy with the lack of activity, but from the looks of it things are certainly not being missed out on because of the want of trying. As you say, time will tell.

 

I do see your concerns about their lack of football knowledge and it's obviously the case otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure what else we expected? Was Shepherd too ill to be of any real use to them in the early stages? Did they discover some things on his part that were unforgivable enough to get shot of him straight away? Did he want to help them anyway? We don't know the full story, as always, which is a f****** killer on here.

 

If I can speculate on a personal level: to me it seems like David Dein would have been their ideal solution to this problem because of his knowledge and it certainly seems like they've been forced into biting off more than they can chew on a personal level (especially Mort) after this didn't come off... and also that Big Sam might be doing the jobs of a "DOF" and a manager at the moment. Something, which if true, will obviously need resolving sooner rather than later - but on both Sam and the board's terms, not just one or the other.

 

This obviously shows that I do have personal concerns about things, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know better than those involved at the club currently and I certainly don't know what they do about the takeover/finances/etc.

 

I can appreciate, however, that the changes we've seen/will see are absolutely massive and will perhaps eclipse anything we've seen before at this club, yourself included. All we can really do is hope for the best for now.

 

The optimism I feel is solely down to Allardyce. The board have done absolutely nothing yet. I hope they do. If they don't do any more, or generate more money, than the old board, what then ? If they don't back him so much, what then ? Face facts, so far they haven't shown much inclination. They know nowt about football, that in itself is pretty damning. You don't have to know anything about football to know that you need to back your managers if you want success and get among the money, if thats his objective.

 

I've no doubt that there has been some changes, and will be more, but at the moment they appear to be Allardyce inspired ones, unless he goes.

 

 

 

"they know nowt about football" Where is your evidence of this?

Leazes likes to back the old board, just as he liked to back Souness. When he is wrong he either twists things or talks utter shite. In this case its a bit of both. Don't ask for facts or evidence though. They wont be fothcoming.

[Guest Moe-Ali]

I hate half the fuckers i work with and we still end up with good results. Infact it is far more healthy for the club that Allardyce and Mort etc have conflicting opinions, results in a better productivity.

[Guest alex]

Btw, just quoting a post is worse than 'this'. I blame Parky like.

[BONTEMPI]

I think we will have a budget of 10 mil for the remainder of this transfer window, based on the amount of debt Ashley had to take on board, and him and Mort just trying to balance the books! With more coming from the looming Dyer transfer.

 

So with that in mind, were not likely to see a massive budget until next season, we had best bide our time until then, and get in some cheap or free defenders that can just hold there own in the prem!

 

TBH I wasn't expecting a miracle for this season, just wished it would have happened sooner! But then, we are the most impatient fans out there!

 

Just be happy Frey "Freddy" Bentos has fucked off, and Ratso isn't here to totally take us down the pan!

[Keefaz]

Btw, just quoting a post is worse than 'this'. I blame Parky like.

 

I thought people were just fucking up and forgetting to type their reply. Wasn't aware it was a genuine forum phenomenon.

[Baggio]

Btw, just quoting a post is worse than 'this'. I blame Parky like.

 

I thought people were just f****** up and forgetting to type their reply. Wasn't aware it was a genuine forum phenomenon.

[Guest alex]

Btw, just quoting a post is worse than 'this'. I blame Parky like.

 

I thought people were just f****** up and forgetting to type their reply. Wasn't aware it was a genuine forum phenomenon.

Bit slow like. I thought my post would have been quoted straight away.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Btw, just quoting a post is worse than 'this'. I blame Parky like.

 

I thought people were just f****** up and forgetting to type their reply. Wasn't aware it was a genuine forum phenomenon.

 

this

[Rich]

I'll have until at least September 1st 2008, if that's alright.

 

Shepherd had a decade here to get things right, and he didn't start losing me until towards the very end despite some serious ups and downs along the way. In fact, with him bringing Allardyce in he'd as good as won me round again to the point where I didn't mind him having one final roll of the dice on his terms (but bear in mind my complete ignorance of the financial side of things, which some say were getting very worrying.)

 

Ashley's had about a month here, hasn't yet done anything to be majorly criticised for (outside of what's been speculated) and I haven't got an opinion either way on him just yet.

 

Surely that's fair enough?

 

As I said, but having a board who's manager is coming out in the press and saying "they know nothing about football" doesn't look too good does it ?

 

I didn't expect Ashley to bankroll the club, unlike others, but this could be a bad situation. They have got to wise up, and you have to face the real possibility that they may not have the ambition you thought they would. Time will tell.

 

 

I don't have any preconceptions about them, that's the whole point. I didn't buy into this "£50M budget", "unlimited fee for a megastar" stuff and I don't buy into the fact that Allardyce is now getting nothing. I can understand people getting twitchy with the lack of activity, but from the looks of it things are certainly not being missed out on because of the want of trying. As you say, time will tell.

 

I do see your concerns about their lack of football knowledge and it's obviously the case otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure what else we expected? Was Shepherd too ill to be of any real use to them in the early stages? Did they discover some things on his part that were unforgivable enough to get shot of him straight away? Did he want to help them anyway? We don't know the full story, as always, which is a fucking killer on here.

 

If I can speculate on a personal level: to me it seems like David Dein would have been their ideal solution to this problem because of his knowledge and it certainly seems like they've been forced into biting off more than they can chew on a personal level (especially Mort) after this didn't come off... and also that Big Sam might be doing the jobs of a "DOF" and a manager at the moment. Something, which if true, will obviously need resolving sooner rather than later - but on both Sam and the board's terms, not just one or the other.

 

This obviously shows that I do have personal concerns about things, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know better than those involved at the club currently and I certainly don't know what they do about the takeover/finances/etc.

 

I can appreciate, however, that the changes we've seen/will see are absolutely massive and will perhaps eclipse anything we've seen before at this club, yourself included. All we can really do is hope for the best for now.

 

The optimism I feel is solely down to Allardyce. The board have done absolutely nothing yet. I hope they do. If they don't do any more, or generate more money, than the old board, what then ? If they don't back him so much, what then ? Face facts, so far they haven't shown much inclination. They know nowt about football, that in itself is pretty damning. You don't have to know anything about football to know that you need to back your managers if you want success and get among the money, if thats his objective.

 

I've no doubt that there has been some changes, and will be more, but at the moment they appear to be Allardyce inspired ones, unless he goes.

 

 

I've never been one of your critics, mate, but as Gemmill says you're coming across as fucking desperate to whip out the "I told you so!" posts at the minute. It's not on from somebody who has always apparently had the best interests of the club at heart. To me it seems like you're putting being "right" above wanting this new regime to work. You're ignoring all of the sensible counter-points that people are making about it being early days and about things going on that we can't possibly know about/comprehend and sticking to your party line of "Shepherd good, Ashley probably bad". It's not debating, it's ramming your beliefs down people's throats and praying to God that they're proven right.

 

I've already agreed with you on the footballing knowledge thing and I offered you some material which you've completely ignored, I've admitted that I can see why people are becoming concerned and I've said that I can understand, to an extent, some of the opinions that you and Baggio and others have. But you have to admit that you're all being extremely quick to judge here after all the changes that have just happened. It's not going to be an overnight solution.

 

People are also VERY quick to forget that this time last year we were in exactly the same boat under Freddy Shepherd and Glenn Roeder. Ashley and Allardyce are going to have to go some fucking distance to top Duff, Martins, Rossi, Sibierski and Bernard for dealings this summer after losing Shearer, Bowyer, Faye, Boumsong and Chopra from the first team squad. What was our net spend last summer, by the way? £7.5M according to NUFC.com, and that was with European football as well!

 

It sounds very familiar to me so far this summer, albeit last summer we didn't have the club being taken over during the window. Although with over a month of transfers still remaining, we've already brought in two more players than we had by this time last year and seem to be making breakthroughs in other departments as well. And it's only July!

 

This tit-for-tat stuff is a piece of piss, like.

 

I suppose you're alright though because it's win-win with your current stance, if you genuinely do want some success under Ashley. If it goes tits-up you can revel in your glory of telling people "so" and if it goes the way we all hope it does then you can revel in the club's glory, with the rest of us. Great stuff.

[Dave]

I hope you realise how bad that looks on a mobile.

[ohmelads]

Penny pinching in defence again. Will this club ever learn?

 

Looking at the defence we put out against Juventus I think it'd be an understatement to say we need some investment in that area. If you believe we're targetting freebies purely because they're the right people for the job then good for you, but I think it's because the money isn't there and we're getting whatever we can, a view backed up by practically all of Allardyce's comments over the last couple of weeks ("can't guarantee quality but ill get some numbers in", "targets are disappearing rapidly", "missed out on loads of players recently", "clubs like fulham are spending much more than us", "I need to convince the new owners to spend and quickly" etc etc etc).

 

Fair enough, but you've yet again completely ignored the relevant points that numerous people have made about the very recent takeover, the club's debt, the difficulty we might be having attracting players, etc.

 

It's a waste of time looking at things on such a simplistic level, man. Ashley de-listed the club 12 days ago and alright, we might not have money in the immediate short-term while this infamous "review" is undertaken and while things are sorted out from top-to-bottom (I notice the board are backing Allardyce's backroom rebuilding plans, which won't be exactly "cheap" and which people seem to completely be ignoring while they claim he's going to be forced out.)

 

Where is it written that you absolutely positively need to spend big, solid money to do well/build a solid foundation?

 

Surely you can appreciate it that it might take more than 12 days (or a month or two at the most since they started buying shares/taking full control) to come in and decided what route to take a multi-million pound business. As Gemmill said, it's unfortunate that it's happened in the summer and it's perhaps "unfortunate" that the likes of Man City don't seem to be suffering the same problems, but perhaps they're not doing things the right way and we are.

 

How many of us were calling for a massive upheaval at this football club just a few short months ago?

 

Well we're getting it and people still aren't f****** happy because we're not doing that AND spending millions at the same time.

 

Beggars belief and shows us up as supporters.

 

Call it simplistic if you want but it's equally simplistic to assume more money couldn't have been provided, or to assume that we haven't signed players simply because none want to come to Newcastle. Cheap dig tbh, I suspect you know as little about circumstances behind the scenes as I do.

 

I haven't ignored the points made about the takeover or the club's debt, I've chosen to comment on actual quotes from the manager and facts such as the minimal spending on defence which goes back years at this club and the very limited options we have less than 2 weeks before the season's opener.

 

I didn't say we need to spend big, either.

 

Apologies if you think a bit of healthy scepticism shows you up as a supporter. I'll be as happy as the next man if I see us signing good defenders, but making excuses for the board without knowing any of the circumstances is pointless IMO.

[STM]

I'll have until at least September 1st 2008, if that's alright.

 

Shepherd had a decade here to get things right, and he didn't start losing me until towards the very end despite some serious ups and downs along the way. In fact, with him bringing Allardyce in he'd as good as won me round again to the point where I didn't mind him having one final roll of the dice on his terms (but bear in mind my complete ignorance of the financial side of things, which some say were getting very worrying.)

 

Ashley's had about a month here, hasn't yet done anything to be majorly criticised for (outside of what's been speculated) and I haven't got an opinion either way on him just yet.

 

Surely that's fair enough?

 

As I said, but having a board who's manager is coming out in the press and saying "they know nothing about football" doesn't look too good does it ?

 

I didn't expect Ashley to bankroll the club, unlike others, but this could be a bad situation. They have got to wise up, and you have to face the real possibility that they may not have the ambition you thought they would. Time will tell.

 

 

I don't have any preconceptions about them, that's the whole point. I didn't buy into this "£50M budget", "unlimited fee for a megastar" stuff and I don't buy into the fact that Allardyce is now getting nothing. I can understand people getting twitchy with the lack of activity, but from the looks of it things are certainly not being missed out on because of the want of trying. As you say, time will tell.

 

I do see your concerns about their lack of football knowledge and it's obviously the case otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure what else we expected? Was Shepherd too ill to be of any real use to them in the early stages? Did they discover some things on his part that were unforgivable enough to get shot of him straight away? Did he want to help them anyway? We don't know the full story, as always, which is a f****** killer on here.

 

If I can speculate on a personal level: to me it seems like David Dein would have been their ideal solution to this problem because of his knowledge and it certainly seems like they've been forced into biting off more than they can chew on a personal level (especially Mort) after this didn't come off... and also that Big Sam might be doing the jobs of a "DOF" and a manager at the moment. Something, which if true, will obviously need resolving sooner rather than later - but on both Sam and the board's terms, not just one or the other.

 

This obviously shows that I do have personal concerns about things, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know better than those involved at the club currently and I certainly don't know what they do about the takeover/finances/etc.

 

I can appreciate, however, that the changes we've seen/will see are absolutely massive and will perhaps eclipse anything we've seen before at this club, yourself included. All we can really do is hope for the best for now.

 

The optimism I feel is solely down to Allardyce. The board have done absolutely nothing yet. I hope they do. If they don't do any more, or generate more money, than the old board, what then ? If they don't back him so much, what then ? Face facts, so far they haven't shown much inclination. They know nowt about football, that in itself is pretty damning. You don't have to know anything about football to know that you need to back your managers if you want success and get among the money, if thats his objective.

 

I've no doubt that there has been some changes, and will be more, but at the moment they appear to be Allardyce inspired ones, unless he goes.

 

 

I've never been one of your critics, mate, but as Gemmill says you're coming across as f****** desperate to whip out the "I told you so!" posts at the minute. It's not on from somebody who has always apparently had the best interests of the club at heart. To me it seems like you're putting being "right" above wanting this new regime to work. You're ignoring all of the sensible counter-points that people are making about it being early days and about things going on that we can't possibly know about/comprehend and sticking to your party line of "Shepherd good, Ashley probably bad". It's not debating, it's ramming your beliefs down people's throats and praying to God that they're proven right.

 

I've already agreed with you on the footballing knowledge thing and I offered you some material which you've completely ignored, I've admitted that I can see why people are becoming concerned and I've said that I can understand, to an extent, some of the opinions that you and Baggio and others have. But you have to admit that you're all being extremely quick to judge here after all the changes that have just happened. It's not going to be an overnight solution.

 

People are also VERY quick to forget that this time last year we were in exactly the same boat under Freddy Shepherd and Glenn Roeder. Ashley and Allardyce are going to have to go some f****** distance to top Duff, Martins, Rossi, Sibierski and Bernard for dealings this summer after losing Shearer, Bowyer, Faye, Boumsong and Chopra from the first team squad. What was our net spend last summer, by the way? £7.5M according to NUFC.com, and that was with European football as well!

 

It sounds very familiar to me so far this summer, albeit last summer we didn't have the club being taken over during the window. Although with over a month of transfers still remaining, we've already brought in two more players than we had by this time last year and seem to be making breakthroughs in other departments as well. And it's only July!

 

This tit-for-tat stuff is a piece of piss, like.

 

I suppose you're alright though because it's win-win with your current stance, if you genuinely do want some success under Ashley. If it goes tits-up you can revel in your glory of telling people "so" and if it goes the way we all hope it does then you can revel in the club's glory, with the rest of us. Great stuff.

 

Thats a good post mate. Not having a go at Ne5, just the whole situation in comparison to last summer.

[NE5]

I'll have until at least September 1st 2008, if that's alright.

 

Shepherd had a decade here to get things right, and he didn't start losing me until towards the very end despite some serious ups and downs along the way. In fact, with him bringing Allardyce in he'd as good as won me round again to the point where I didn't mind him having one final roll of the dice on his terms (but bear in mind my complete ignorance of the financial side of things, which some say were getting very worrying.)

 

Ashley's had about a month here, hasn't yet done anything to be majorly criticised for (outside of what's been speculated) and I haven't got an opinion either way on him just yet.

 

Surely that's fair enough?

 

As I said, but having a board who's manager is coming out in the press and saying "they know nothing about football" doesn't look too good does it ?

 

I didn't expect Ashley to bankroll the club, unlike others, but this could be a bad situation. They have got to wise up, and you have to face the real possibility that they may not have the ambition you thought they would. Time will tell.

 

 

I don't have any preconceptions about them, that's the whole point. I didn't buy into this "£50M budget", "unlimited fee for a megastar" stuff and I don't buy into the fact that Allardyce is now getting nothing. I can understand people getting twitchy with the lack of activity, but from the looks of it things are certainly not being missed out on because of the want of trying. As you say, time will tell.

 

I do see your concerns about their lack of football knowledge and it's obviously the case otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure what else we expected? Was Shepherd too ill to be of any real use to them in the early stages? Did they discover some things on his part that were unforgivable enough to get shot of him straight away? Did he want to help them anyway? We don't know the full story, as always, which is a f****** killer on here.

 

If I can speculate on a personal level: to me it seems like David Dein would have been their ideal solution to this problem because of his knowledge and it certainly seems like they've been forced into biting off more than they can chew on a personal level (especially Mort) after this didn't come off... and also that Big Sam might be doing the jobs of a "DOF" and a manager at the moment. Something, which if true, will obviously need resolving sooner rather than later - but on both Sam and the board's terms, not just one or the other.

 

This obviously shows that I do have personal concerns about things, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know better than those involved at the club currently and I certainly don't know what they do about the takeover/finances/etc.

 

I can appreciate, however, that the changes we've seen/will see are absolutely massive and will perhaps eclipse anything we've seen before at this club, yourself included. All we can really do is hope for the best for now.

 

The optimism I feel is solely down to Allardyce. The board have done absolutely nothing yet. I hope they do. If they don't do any more, or generate more money, than the old board, what then ? If they don't back him so much, what then ? Face facts, so far they haven't shown much inclination. They know nowt about football, that in itself is pretty damning. You don't have to know anything about football to know that you need to back your managers if you want success and get among the money, if thats his objective.

 

I've no doubt that there has been some changes, and will be more, but at the moment they appear to be Allardyce inspired ones, unless he goes.

 

 

 

"they know nowt about football" Where is your evidence of this?

Leazes likes to back the old board, just as he liked to back Souness. When he is wrong he either twists things or talks utter shite. In this case its a bit of both. Don't ask for facts or evidence though. They wont be fothcoming.

 

you like to knock the old board, just like your stupid friends  mackems.gif

 

BTW, I've posted plenty of facts in the form of league positions, qualifications for europe, attendances, signings made in comparison to their predecessors. But just continue to ignore them like all the others on toontastic, including some of your friends who backed Sounes right to the end, and STILL think his changes left the club better off.

 

Just don't tell anyone that such an opinion makes you "intelligent" though  mackems.gif the proof that we are not, is in the FACTUAL league positions

 

I know who you are on there anyway. Your venom and the fact you like following me around, is a compliment in itself. 

 

 

 

 

[Baggio]

Penny pinching in defence again. Will this club ever learn?

 

Looking at the defence we put out against Juventus I think it'd be an understatement to say we need some investment in that area. If you believe we're targetting freebies purely because they're the right people for the job then good for you, but I think it's because the money isn't there and we're getting whatever we can, a view backed up by practically all of Allardyce's comments over the last couple of weeks ("can't guarantee quality but ill get some numbers in", "targets are disappearing rapidly", "missed out on loads of players recently", "clubs like fulham are spending much more than us", "I need to convince the new owners to spend and quickly" etc etc etc).

 

Fair enough, but you've yet again completely ignored the relevant points that numerous people have made about the very recent takeover, the club's debt, the difficulty we might be having attracting players, etc.

 

It's a waste of time looking at things on such a simplistic level, man. Ashley de-listed the club 12 days ago and alright, we might not have money in the immediate short-term while this infamous "review" is undertaken and while things are sorted out from top-to-bottom (I notice the board are backing Allardyce's backroom rebuilding plans, which won't be exactly "cheap" and which people seem to completely be ignoring while they claim he's going to be forced out.)

 

Where is it written that you absolutely positively need to spend big, solid money to do well/build a solid foundation?

 

Surely you can appreciate it that it might take more than 12 days (or a month or two at the most since they started buying shares/taking full control) to come in and decided what route to take a multi-million pound business. As Gemmill said, it's unfortunate that it's happened in the summer and it's perhaps "unfortunate" that the likes of Man City don't seem to be suffering the same problems, but perhaps they're not doing things the right way and we are.

 

How many of us were calling for a massive upheaval at this football club just a few short months ago?

 

Well we're getting it and people still aren't f****** happy because we're not doing that AND spending millions at the same time.

 

Beggars belief and shows us up as supporters.

 

Call it simplistic if you want but it's equally simplistic to assume more money couldn't have been provided, or to assume that we haven't signed players simply because none want to come to Newcastle. Cheap dig tbh.

 

I haven't ignored the points made about the takeover or the club's debt, I've chosen to comment on actual quotes from the manager and facts such as the minimal spending on defence which goes back years at this club and the very limited options we have less than 2 weeks before the season's opener.

 

I didn't say we need to spend big.

 

Apologies if you think a bit of healthy scepticism shows you up as a supporter. I'll be as happy as the next man if I see us signing good defenders, but making excuses for the board without knowing any of the circumstances is pointless IMO.

 

Agree with this, not spending on defenders will just push us further behind.

[Rich]

@ohmelads (and prior to the traditional five-minute later "edit")

 

Fantastic debating again, completely missing the major points and picking two things out at random for a bit of "tit for tat". Utter waste of time, man.

 

Not sure saying there might not be money available because of the "strategic review", multi-million pound company being completely bought out by one investor during the transfer window, potential previous mess/debts left by the last board (not just Shepherd) is entirely simplistic, in all honesty. Certainly scratches the surface a bit more than saying "we never spend money on the defence".

 

People could point to £9M for Woodgate, £8M for Boumsong, etc. (and have done in the past.)

 

If the money isn't there... surely it couldn't be simply because Ashley/Mort aren't comfortable releasing millions upon millions while they decided what route to go with the football club/earmark how much investment is needed? Surely they're not looking at our wage bill and thinking "Jesus Christ, we might need to get this down to a suitable operating level" before we bring in any more massive earners?

 

Do people honestly think we're that much worse off than we were this time last year under an arguably worse manager with worse injuries, a European campaign to comprehend, a lot of bad feeling around the club because of the chairman, etc?

 

I understand some people are looking at West Ham and Man City and thinking "Hmmmm, that looks exciting!", but am I alone in being fairly glad that we seem to be doing things in a bit more of a patient and measured way? Do I need to remind people again that there are 32 days left for transfers to be conducted and that every player we've brought in is arguably better than the one's that they've replaced?

[Parky]

@ohmelads (and prior to the traditional five-minute later "edit")

 

Fantastic debating again, completely missing the major points and picking two things out at random for a bit of "tit for tat". Utter waste of time, man.

 

Not sure saying there might not be money available because of the "strategic review", multi-million pound company being completely bought out by one investor during the transfer window, potential previous mess/debts left by the last board (not just Shepherd) is entirely simplistic, in all honesty. Certainly scratches the surface a bit more than saying "we never spend money on the defence".

 

People could point to £9M for Woodgate, £8M for Boumsong, etc. (and have done in the past.)

 

If the money isn't there... surely it couldn't be simply because Ashley/Mort aren't comfortable releasing millions upon millions while they decided what route to go with the football club/earmark how much investment is needed? Surely they're not looking at our wage bill and thinking "Jesus Christ, we might need to get this down to a suitable operating level" before we bring in any more massive earners?

 

Do people honestly think we're that much worse off than we were this time last year under an arguably worse manager with worse injuries, a European campaign to comprehend, a lot of bad feeling around the club because of the chairman, etc?

 

I understand some people are looking at West Ham and Man City and thinking "Hmmmm, that looks exciting!", but am I alone in being fairly glad that we seem to be doing things in a bit more of a patient and measured way? Do I need to remind people again that there are 32 days left for transfers to be conducted and that every player we've brought in is arguably better than the one's that they've replaced?

 

 

Sven probably told that Thaksin bloke that if he spent £100m he would get a British passport. 

[Guest Pie]

I'll have until at least September 1st 2008, if that's alright.

 

Shepherd had a decade here to get things right, and he didn't start losing me until towards the very end despite some serious ups and downs along the way. In fact, with him bringing Allardyce in he'd as good as won me round again to the point where I didn't mind him having one final roll of the dice on his terms (but bear in mind my complete ignorance of the financial side of things, which some say were getting very worrying.)

 

Ashley's had about a month here, hasn't yet done anything to be majorly criticised for (outside of what's been speculated) and I haven't got an opinion either way on him just yet.

 

Surely that's fair enough?

 

As I said, but having a board who's manager is coming out in the press and saying "they know nothing about football" doesn't look too good does it ?

 

I didn't expect Ashley to bankroll the club, unlike others, but this could be a bad situation. They have got to wise up, and you have to face the real possibility that they may not have the ambition you thought they would. Time will tell.

 

 

I don't have any preconceptions about them, that's the whole point. I didn't buy into this "£50M budget", "unlimited fee for a megastar" stuff and I don't buy into the fact that Allardyce is now getting nothing. I can understand people getting twitchy with the lack of activity, but from the looks of it things are certainly not being missed out on because of the want of trying. As you say, time will tell.

 

I do see your concerns about their lack of football knowledge and it's obviously the case otherwise Allardyce wouldn't have said it, but I'm not sure what else we expected? Was Shepherd too ill to be of any real use to them in the early stages? Did they discover some things on his part that were unforgivable enough to get shot of him straight away? Did he want to help them anyway? We don't know the full story, as always, which is a f****** killer on here.

 

If I can speculate on a personal level: to me it seems like David Dein would have been their ideal solution to this problem because of his knowledge and it certainly seems like they've been forced into biting off more than they can chew on a personal level (especially Mort) after this didn't come off... and also that Big Sam might be doing the jobs of a "DOF" and a manager at the moment. Something, which if true, will obviously need resolving sooner rather than later - but on both Sam and the board's terms, not just one or the other.

 

This obviously shows that I do have personal concerns about things, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know better than those involved at the club currently and I certainly don't know what they do about the takeover/finances/etc.

 

I can appreciate, however, that the changes we've seen/will see are absolutely massive and will perhaps eclipse anything we've seen before at this club, yourself included. All we can really do is hope for the best for now.

 

The optimism I feel is solely down to Allardyce. The board have done absolutely nothing yet. I hope they do. If they don't do any more, or generate more money, than the old board, what then ? If they don't back him so much, what then ? Face facts, so far they haven't shown much inclination. They know nowt about football, that in itself is pretty damning. You don't have to know anything about football to know that you need to back your managers if you want success and get among the money, if thats his objective.

 

I've no doubt that there has been some changes, and will be more, but at the moment they appear to be Allardyce inspired ones, unless he goes.

 

 

 

"they know nowt about football" Where is your evidence of this?

Leazes likes to back the old board, just as he liked to back Souness. When he is wrong he either twists things or talks utter s****. In this case its a bit of both. Don't ask for facts or evidence though. They wont be fothcoming.

 

you like to knock the old board, just like your stupid friends  mackems.gif

 

BTW, I've posted plenty of facts in the form of league positions, qualifications for europe, attendances, signings made in comparison to their predecessors. But just continue to ignore them like all the others on toontastic, including some of your friends who backed Sounes right to the end, and STILL think his changes left the club better off.

 

Just don't tell anyone that such an opinion makes you "intelligent" though  mackems.gif the proof that we are not, is in the FACTUAL league positions

 

I know who you are on there anyway. Your venom and the fact you like following me around, is a compliment in itself. 

 

 

 

 

Flattery gets you everywhere Leazes. Of course league positions count. In Freddies time we showed instability in the league. We finished in the lower half as often as the top half. Not exactly flattering to the fella is it?

You backed both Souness and Roeder. On that basis your logic is flawed.

[STM]

Penny pinching in defence again. Will this club ever learn?

 

Looking at the defence we put out against Juventus I think it'd be an understatement to say we need some investment in that area. If you believe we're targetting freebies purely because they're the right people for the job then good for you, but I think it's because the money isn't there and we're getting whatever we can, a view backed up by practically all of Allardyce's comments over the last couple of weeks ("can't guarantee quality but ill get some numbers in", "targets are disappearing rapidly", "missed out on loads of players recently", "clubs like fulham are spending much more than us", "I need to convince the new owners to spend and quickly" etc etc etc).

 

Fair enough, but you've yet again completely ignored the relevant points that numerous people have made about the very recent takeover, the club's debt, the difficulty we might be having attracting players, etc.

 

It's a waste of time looking at things on such a simplistic level, man. Ashley de-listed the club 12 days ago and alright, we might not have money in the immediate short-term while this infamous "review" is undertaken and while things are sorted out from top-to-bottom (I notice the board are backing Allardyce's backroom rebuilding plans, which won't be exactly "cheap" and which people seem to completely be ignoring while they claim he's going to be forced out.)

 

Where is it written that you absolutely positively need to spend big, solid money to do well/build a solid foundation?

 

Surely you can appreciate it that it might take more than 12 days (or a month or two at the most since they started buying shares/taking full control) to come in and decided what route to take a multi-million pound business. As Gemmill said, it's unfortunate that it's happened in the summer and it's perhaps "unfortunate" that the likes of Man City don't seem to be suffering the same problems, but perhaps they're not doing things the right way and we are.

 

How many of us were calling for a massive upheaval at this football club just a few short months ago?

 

Well we're getting it and people still aren't f****** happy because we're not doing that AND spending millions at the same time.

 

Beggars belief and shows us up as supporters.

 

Call it simplistic if you want but it's equally simplistic to assume more money couldn't have been provided, or to assume that we haven't signed players simply because none want to come to Newcastle. Cheap dig tbh.

 

I haven't ignored the points made about the takeover or the club's debt, I've chosen to comment on actual quotes from the manager and facts such as the minimal spending on defence which goes back years at this club and the very limited options we have less than 2 weeks before the season's opener.

 

I didn't say we need to spend big.

 

Apologies if you think a bit of healthy scepticism shows you up as a supporter. I'll be as happy as the next man if I see us signing good defenders, but making excuses for the board without knowing any of the circumstances is pointless IMO.

 

Agree with this, not spending on defenders will just push us further behind.

 

But we are going to buy defenders. Mort, Ashley and Sam aren't stupid enough to let this window close without us at least getting the numbers in.

 

It's a myth that you need to spend big on defenders though. Look at Rozehnal (so far). If he keeps it up it's a hell of a buy for peanuts.

 

Agreed. I think there is alot of worrying going on a little to early. Obviously we need defenders but if there is anyone who i trust to get them in it is Allardyce, money or no money.

[Guest alex]

Perhaps it sounds like a cop out but I'm actually of the opinion that Allardyce needs to earn the right to spend big. I do have concerns about the board but that is because they are an unknown quantity. Allardyce has always (more or less) gotten by without a lot of money and I think it would be a bit foolhardy to suddenly give him £30million to spend in one transfer window. Obviously we do need to spend but I still think there's a decent chance that we'll see at least a couple of defenders arrived in the next few weeks. If Allardyce does do well and isn't then backed to the hilt there will be plenty justification to have a pop at the board.

[Baggio]

Penny pinching in defence again. Will this club ever learn?

 

Looking at the defence we put out against Juventus I think it'd be an understatement to say we need some investment in that area. If you believe we're targetting freebies purely because they're the right people for the job then good for you, but I think it's because the money isn't there and we're getting whatever we can, a view backed up by practically all of Allardyce's comments over the last couple of weeks ("can't guarantee quality but ill get some numbers in", "targets are disappearing rapidly", "missed out on loads of players recently", "clubs like fulham are spending much more than us", "I need to convince the new owners to spend and quickly" etc etc etc).

 

Fair enough, but you've yet again completely ignored the relevant points that numerous people have made about the very recent takeover, the club's debt, the difficulty we might be having attracting players, etc.

 

It's a waste of time looking at things on such a simplistic level, man. Ashley de-listed the club 12 days ago and alright, we might not have money in the immediate short-term while this infamous "review" is undertaken and while things are sorted out from top-to-bottom (I notice the board are backing Allardyce's backroom rebuilding plans, which won't be exactly "cheap" and which people seem to completely be ignoring while they claim he's going to be forced out.)

 

Where is it written that you absolutely positively need to spend big, solid money to do well/build a solid foundation?

 

Surely you can appreciate it that it might take more than 12 days (or a month or two at the most since they started buying shares/taking full control) to come in and decided what route to take a multi-million pound business. As Gemmill said, it's unfortunate that it's happened in the summer and it's perhaps "unfortunate" that the likes of Man City don't seem to be suffering the same problems, but perhaps they're not doing things the right way and we are.

 

How many of us were calling for a massive upheaval at this football club just a few short months ago?

 

Well we're getting it and people still aren't f****** happy because we're not doing that AND spending millions at the same time.

 

Beggars belief and shows us up as supporters.

 

Call it simplistic if you want but it's equally simplistic to assume more money couldn't have been provided, or to assume that we haven't signed players simply because none want to come to Newcastle. Cheap dig tbh.

 

I haven't ignored the points made about the takeover or the club's debt, I've chosen to comment on actual quotes from the manager and facts such as the minimal spending on defence which goes back years at this club and the very limited options we have less than 2 weeks before the season's opener.

 

I didn't say we need to spend big.

 

Apologies if you think a bit of healthy scepticism shows you up as a supporter. I'll be as happy as the next man if I see us signing good defenders, but making excuses for the board without knowing any of the circumstances is pointless IMO.

 

Agree with this, not spending on defenders will just push us further behind.

 

But we are going to buy defenders. Mort, Ashley and Sam aren't stupid enough to let this window close without us at least getting the numbers in.

 

It's a myth that you need to spend big on defenders though. Look at Rozehnal (so far). If he keeps it up it's a hell of a buy for peanuts.

 

Agreed. I think there is alot of worrying going on a little to early. Obviously we need defenders but if there is anyone who i trust to get them in it is Allardyce, money or no money.

 

Nothing worse than blind faith, you sound as bad as the Villa fans with their "MON the saviour" bollocks.

[Parky]

Perhaps it sounds like a cop out but I'm actually of the opinion that Allardyce needs to earn the right to spend big. I do have concerns about the board but that is because they are an unknown quantity. Allardyce has always (more or less) gotten by without a lot of money and I think it would be a bit foolhardy to suddenly give him £30million to spend in one transfer window. Obviously we do need to spend but I still think there's a decent chance that we'll see at least a couple of defenders arrived in the next few weeks. If Allardyce does do well and isn't then backed to the hilt there will be plenty justification to have a pop at the board.

 

What a cop out.