The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Back on track. Are there any 2 white CB's with a similar amount of caps as Ferdinand and Campbell with as little captain caps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I would say the vast majority of football fans love a player if he is quality no matter where he was born or the colour of his skin. How many Arsenal fans don't love Henry, Chelsea fans Drogba, Spurs fans King, us Sir Les, Liverpool Barnes, Everton Distin, Man U McGrath, Man City Yaya etc.. That's not really the issue. He's talking institutional racism within the FA. Most of us would happily have Cheick as club captain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I would say the vast majority of football fans love a player if he is quality no matter where he was born or the colour of his skin. How many Arsenal fans don't love Henry, Chelsea fans Drogba, Spurs fans King, us Sir Les, Liverpool Barnes, Everton Distin, Man U McGrath, Man City Yaya etc.. That's not really the issue. He's talking institutional racism within the FA. Most of us would happily have Cheick as club captain. Do the FA pick the captain or squad? Surely that is up to the manager. The only influence the FA would have is banning players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm certain they have some influence. That's Campbell's point anyway. I don't think he's calling out any of his ex-England managers. Just that they where probably encouraged to go the Mickey O route, the Keown route, Seaman route. There's not a white defender of Campbell's class with as little captain caps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Back on track. Are there any 2 white CB's with a similar amount of caps as Ferdinand and Campbell with as little captain caps? http://www.englandfootballonline.com/teamplyrs/appsmost.html It's an interesting one. Terry Butcher is the closest to him with 7 captaincies in 77 appearances (Campbell had 3 in 73), in actual fact had Bryan Robson not got injured in the second game of World Cup 1990 Butcher would have ended up with just 3 captaincies himself too. Tony Adams captained the side 15 times in 66 appearances which is the next closest, but he was club captain at Arsenal for donkeys, so that is still surprisingly low to me given that context. Obviously a lot depends on who else is around at the time, but I'd suggest there's more behind this than race, although I really liked Campbell as a player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 As if Sol Campbell's inspired a race debate, man. He's a self-serving arsehole. Always was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 When I first heard the story I thought 'nope. He's wrong here. He was never captain of Arsenal. Only Spurs? And that's maybe.' But now I've thought about it he has a point. That 10 year stuff is balls. But if he where white, half the players that captained ahead of him wouldn't have done so IMO. So there's some merit to his claim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there bollocks. Better players, better people or better leaders. Nowt to do with skin colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Back on track. Are there any 2 white CB's with a similar amount of caps as Ferdinand and Campbell with as little captain caps? http://www.englandfootballonline.com/teamplyrs/appsmost.html It's an interesting one. Terry Butcher is the closest to him with 7 captaincies in 77 appearances (Campbell had 3 in 73), in actual fact had Bryan Robson not got injured in the second game of World Cup 1990 Butcher would have ended up with just 3 captaincies himself too. Tony Adams captained the side 15 times in 66 appearances which is the next closest, but he was club captain at Arsenal for donkeys, so that is still surprisingly low to me given that context. Obviously a lot depends on who else is around at the time, but I'd suggest there's more behind this than race, although I really liked Campbell as a player. Very interesting. It's closer than I thought but the next closest has more than double. Then the gap from there is much bigger. So It's Ferdinand's 7 and Adams 14. Campbell's 3, Butcher's 7. I would include Cashley but that's a hot one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there bollocks. Better players, better people or better leaders. Nowt to do with skin colour. Prejudice isn't necessarily a conscious decision. Often people will find other reasons to rationalize their bias and/or not even be aware of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there bollocks. Better players, better people or better leaders. Nowt to do with skin colour. Martin Keown, Michael Owen and David Seaman? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there bollocks. Better players, better people or better leaders. Nowt to do with skin colour. Martin Keown, Michael Owen and David Seaman? Nothing wrong with Keown or Seaman. Owen was obviously an abysmal choice of captain but it wasn't just the international manager who made that horrific appointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe_next_year Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Michael Owen is an odd one, but nothing to do with race, I mean even if there was institutional racism stopping Campbell, there must of been plenty of other white people more suited to the captaincy than Owen anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Back on track. Are there any 2 white CB's with a similar amount of caps as Ferdinand and Campbell with as little captain caps? http://www.englandfootballonline.com/teamplyrs/appsmost.html It's an interesting one. Terry Butcher is the closest to him with 7 captaincies in 77 appearances (Campbell had 3 in 73), in actual fact had Bryan Robson not got injured in the second game of World Cup 1990 Butcher would have ended up with just 3 captaincies himself too. Tony Adams captained the side 15 times in 66 appearances which is the next closest, but he was club captain at Arsenal for donkeys, so that is still surprisingly low to me given that context. Obviously a lot depends on who else is around at the time, but I'd suggest there's more behind this than race, although I really liked Campbell as a player. I would've had Butcher much higher than that given that Bryan Robson's shoulder was made of glass from 85 onwards. Then again he himself had injuries around the same time. Trying to think who would've had the armband in Robson's absence and Im thinking Wilkins and perhaps Kenny Sansom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there bollocks. Better players, better people or better leaders. Nowt to do with skin colour. Martin Keown, Michael Owen and David Seaman? Nothing wrong with Keown or Seaman. Owen was obviously an abysmal choice of captain but it wasn't just the international manager who made that horrific appointment. Campbell was ahead of Keown in the pecking order at international level when he was given the captaincy over him. Campbell had already amassed 2 of his 3 caps by that point. I'm sure someone will think of an excuse though. A prime Jamie Carragher wouldn't be behind any Michael Owen as captain IMO. Owen captained England a hell of a lot my Gawd. I find it hard to believe that Ferdinand, Cole and Campbell have so little England captain caps for footballing reasons. You can't find any 2/3 white players in those positions with as little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there bollocks. Better players, better people or better leaders. Nowt to do with skin colour. Martin Keown, Michael Owen and David Seaman? Nothing wrong with Keown or Seaman. Owen was obviously an abysmal choice of captain but it wasn't just the international manager who made that horrific appointment. Campbell was ahead of Keown in the pecking order at international level when he was given the captaincy over him. Campbell had already amassed 2 of his 3 caps by that point. I'm sure someone will think of an excuse though. A prime Jamie Carragher wouldn't be behind any Michael Owen as captain IMO. Owen captained England a hell of a lot my Gawd. I find it hard to believe that Ferdinand, Cole and Campbell have so little England captain caps for footballing reasons. You can't find any 2/3 white players in those positions with as little. I wouldn't say Ashley Cole is Captain material like say Stuart Pearce was. Of course Campbell and Ferdinand had most of their caps skippered by Beckham, but I agree it's odd they didn't captain England more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 With Cashley it's a little different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 With Cashley it's a little different. I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The blazers at the FA always chose the most influential/safest individual to hold the role of captain of the English football team. They're about as risk-adverse a group of dinosaurs as you're likely to get. Proper establishment figures and the qualities you'd look for in a captain weren't particularly relevant when choosing who'd do the job. Safe pair of hands, uncontroversial, clean and unlikely to cause any waves at all. They've always been the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The blazers at the FA always chose the most influential/safest individual to hold the role of captain of the English football team. They're about as risk-adverse a group of dinosaurs as you're likely to get. Proper establishment figures and the qualities you'd look for in a captain weren't particularly relevant when choosing who'd do the job. Safe pair of hands, uncontroversial, clean and unlikely to cause any waves at all. They've always been the same. Except perhaps the last two incumbents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Gerrard's as media generic as it gets, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Gerrard's as media generic as it gets, man. Except a high profile court case of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Tony Adams captained the side 15 times in 66 appearances which is the next closest, but he was club captain at Arsenal for donkeys. I bet you always say that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Missed that one Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The blazers at the FA always chose the most influential/safest individual to hold the role of captain of the English football team. They're about as risk-adverse a group of dinosaurs as you're likely to get. Proper establishment figures and the qualities you'd look for in a captain weren't particularly relevant when choosing who'd do the job. Safe pair of hands, uncontroversial, clean and unlikely to cause any waves at all. They've always been the same. Went to court for assault. Shagged his team mates wife. Made a racist remark. Cheated on his wife. Being black. I'm not talking about being THE captain either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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