Rich

Someone else has reported that error since the fixes like, in the other thread I think. Cheers Mick, I appreciate you.

Ashley can't win either way on this one like. He gives Joe money he'll get it in the neck over Keegan again, he doesn't give Joe money he'll get it in the neck because of the fear of relegation.

If we're using housing analogies (bit out of my comfort zone here like): isn't Ashley's "house" (i.e. Newcastle United Football Club) in a fair amount of disarray? (I'd bet someone could come up with some good comparisons between our problems: interim manager, players out of contract, in the relegation zone, etc. and that of an ailing old house, but it's definitely not my bag). Also, with the nation in a recession isn't it natural that the value of the club should be less than what he paid for it? If he's asking for any more than what he's put in then he wants shot with shit.

TRon: Agree with the theory, but Arsenal have done nothing but nosedive since they lost the likes of Vieira, Gilberto, Parlour, Pires, Keown because while they've been left with what is undoubtedly a better footballing squad, they've got no guile, leadership, grit or power in the engine room (and pretty much everywhere else!) I think Wenger failed badly in that respect, although sometimes it was out of his hands (Vieira in particular). He seems to have completely neglected the physical aspect of what made the "Invincible" Arsenal team so fantastic. They could do all the pretty stuff but they had a lot of big, powerful players who had been in battles before and who were capable of handling themselves. Are you talking about pre-Vieira though? If so, do you honestly think we've got the ability to get players like him in to replace the "old guard"? Even then, it's hardly going to be a quick-fix. A move as drastic as you're suggesting would take a few years to pay off and could end in disaster as far as the short-term goes. It'd reduce the wage bill a fair bit mind, so Ashley would be happy! As for Whiteside/McGrath - wasn't the latter an alcoholic at the time? That's a bit before I was aware of football mind, so my knowledge of it isn't great. (Were they replaced with Ince and Pallister?)

Howay Tron, that Wenger stuff is absolutely nonsensical and irrelevant. Awful form of argument. It's not Wenger's style, for one thing... You could say similar about Oba, Jonas or Given in relation to any bigger club than us which needs a certain thing - three players I'd presume most would call genuinely "essential". However, I doubt the big four will be making a bid for any of them come January, either. Same goes for Viduka, a player who I would genuinely call an automatic first choice (note I haven't said that about Butt), I hardly think Liverpool will be looking at him to help them cover Torres. Load of bollocks really isn't it? He's fairly essential to us at this point in time because we're in the shit and we don't have anybody (fit) better in the position that he plays. I should think that would be enough to convince people to "lump it" instead of attempting to apply Football Manager ideologies to reality. I also think he's been our most accomplished central midfielder this season. There are times when I think "howay man Nicky, what the fuck are you playing at?" when he does some things you just wouldn't expect/shouldn't see from a player of his experience, but those times have been reducing since a couple of seasons ago. I would like to see him phased out, but we can't just cut him out of the picture immediately (especially if we're yet to be sold still). If some people got their way we'd have a squad of about 3.

In fairness, he's hardly saying he's going to walk straight back into the team is he? I think some of this outrage needs to be chanelled at the prospect of Butt getting another contract rather than Smith who's still 6 weeks away. I disagree massively with that as well. Anyone who thinks we can't afford to keep Nicky Butt on (especially if it's just a one year extension) is extremely, extremely deluded if you ask me. Have people learned nowt from the Gary Speed sale? Aye, his best days are behind him and his performances on the park haven't been amazing recently (though he has had some very, very good games this season), but the impact of removing someone of that type from the squad can be massively damaging. People have to stop looking at things from simply a performance/irrational perspective. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that. The prospect of losing Harper, Owen and Butt from the dressing room (for nowt) as much as from the pitch is a massive negative, IMO. By the same token, these guys like to mingle with their own so while they might get on like a house on fire amongst themselves, there can sometimes be splits in the camp between senior pros and younger/foreign players. It was similar at Liverpool and Chelsea when the foreign managers came in and started bringing overseas players in, the old guard obviously didn't like it but they were culled from the squad if they weren't of the required quality. If the likes of Butt goes and say Guthrie takes up the reigns, I think our team will start to develop. If Guthrie isn't up to it then we need to look at getting a younger replacement for Butt in any case like Shearergol suggested. Butt belongs at a club like Fulham or Sunderland at this stage of his career. You could be right, of course, as neither of us really know what goes on behind closed doors at NUFC, but as far as I recall KK was all for giving him an extension (along with Harper and Owen) which was/is good enough for me. If I was confident we could replace him with someone a bit younger and of an undoubted higher quality then I would agree that it might be time to call it a day, but I honestly think we'd just end up worse off. Hopefully he'll stick around until the new owners/manager come in and I'll be happy to bow to their judgement on him, but personally I feel he could be an important player for us for this season and beyond, although by no means an automatic starter (as he seems to be now.)

My turnaround hasn't been entirely swift, for the record, I've just had a search and I've got positive comments about him dating back to August 2007 from me on here! Singled him out for praise in the 2-0 win against Sunderland last season as well! Can't be arsed to delve deeper than that for anything pre-this season, but he's been winning me over (along with Oba) for a good while now. As for this season I'm thinking Man Utd and Bolton in particular where he was very solid in there for us, also Chelsea/Villa were two good games. He was the pick of a bad bunch in the midfield at Fulham and Sunderland (although I admit he was hardly "very, very good", especially in the latter where he played half-crocked and should have been subbed towards the end) and I thought he was good at Everton too (particularly in the 2nd half). He has had a few stinkers as well mind, I'm not denying that. (Although I still think he's been better than Guthrie and Barton on the whole this season.) For those wanting shot ASAP/claiming he should be "emergency", though, like yourself - at the current time who would you honestly pick in there ahead of him? I genuinely think he picks himself at the minute, such is the lack of options in the squad.

Also the reason he refused to sell Barton and encouraged him to send the text to SSN then? He obviously saw something in Barton the lengths he went to in order to keep him at the club and I'm willing to bet it wasn't entirely based on his footballing ability.

Not quite that severe, like, though I will admit he's been winning me over since the back end of last season. He still frustrates the fuck out of me with some of the things he does on the pitch, but he must be a good character to have around the place in an age where we are completely bereft of any talismen or leaders. I'm not saying he should be an automatic starter or anything, but I think he's more than worthy of his place in the squad as it stands (especially considering the current climate we're in.) If these players aren't kept on, can people really see us attracting much better in the state we're in? What planet are people living on? Nerve touched. I've no problem keeping him on but he should be nowhere near the team other than emergencies. I've not seen these "very very good games" I have to be honest. You must have had your eyes closed then. For as much as Nicky Butt is still nowhere near to being one of my "favourite players", I try not to let that blind my assessment of how he plays. Credit where it's due and all that.

Not quite that severe, like, though I will admit he's been winning me over since the back end of last season. He still frustrates the fuck out of me with some of the things he does on the pitch, but he must be a good character to have around the place in an age where we are completely bereft of any talismen or leaders. I'm not saying he should be an automatic starter or anything, but I think he's more than worthy of his place in the squad as it stands (especially considering the current climate we're in.) If these players aren't kept on, can people really see us attracting much better in the state we're in? What planet are people living on? We're still an attractive club to young players coming through from smaller clubs. Take a look in the Championship and you'll see plenty of players as good or better than Nicky Butt. For one example, have a look at Jack Cork. I saw Cork in the flesh playing for Southampton at Preston recently and he did look handy (was played in a number of positions), but you've just completely proven my point about people thinking of nowt more than on-field ability. Let's replace our vice-captain former England international (who is most definitely one of the "leaders" in our squad - as KK told us often enough and as JFK has said on numerous occasions as well) with a 19-year-old who isn't proven in the Premiership. I'm sure that'll work a treat in the current situation we're in

To use Smith as an example - in order to keep things somewhat on track - if reports were right over the summer then KK was desperate to keep him as much for his attitude/presence about the place than anything. He obviously wasn't a first team player under Keegan when all were fit but he recognised the benefit of having players of his type around the club and obviously put a lot of stock into it. I think that was part of the reason he was so crestfallen at losing Milner as well, and both factors were contributory to him walking again.

Not quite that severe, like, though I will admit he's been winning me over since the back end of last season. He still frustrates the fuck out of me with some of the things he does on the pitch, but he must be a good character to have around the place in an age where we are completely bereft of any talismen or leaders. I'm not saying he should be an automatic starter or anything, but I think he's more than worthy of his place in the squad as it stands (especially considering the current climate we're in.) If these players aren't kept on, can people really see us attracting much better in the state we're in? What planet are people living on?

In fairness, he's hardly saying he's going to walk straight back into the team is he? I think some of this outrage needs to be chanelled at the prospect of Butt getting another contract rather than Smith who's still 6 weeks away. I disagree massively with that as well. Anyone who thinks we can't afford to keep Nicky Butt on (especially if it's just a one year extension) is extremely, extremely deluded if you ask me. Have people learned nowt from the Gary Speed sale? Aye, his best days are behind him and his performances on the park haven't been amazing recently (though he has had some very, very good games this season), but the impact of removing someone of that type from the squad can be massively damaging. People have to stop looking at things from simply a performance/irrational perspective. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that. The prospect of losing Harper, Owen and Butt from the dressing room (for nowt) as much as from the pitch is a massive negative, IMO.

No fan of Kinnear, but don't see this as any different to the KK guide to motivating your players/making them feel wanted. What the fuck do you expect him to say if he's asked about Smith?

If Mike Ashley is still trying to sell the club, there's no way in Hell he will make big money signings. Sell to buy is the way it will be, I would imagine there will be more Guthrie/Bassong deals in the pipeline if we do make any moves in the transfer market. Alternatively, if there isn't a buyer anywhere to be found, he'll win a good portion of the fanbase over if he does plough some money in - because let's face it, a lot of supporters are as fickle as feck. As it stands, the situation is untenable and something needs to be done to remedy it if a sale is not forthcoming. I think we are at a crossroads as far as selling the club goes, and Kinnear's appointment till the end of a season gives us some breathing space. By the start of next year, either Ashley will drop the price of the club or decide to stay on. Either way I would expect a proper managerial appointment next season. At this current time I don't really see what could have been done differently as far as JK goes. My only gripe is that the price of the club should have been dropped earlier for a sale to go through, but that's another subject. Agree with all of that. JFK being kept on until the end of the season seems a natural choice now it's got to this stage - at least it offers some form of stability as far as the manger/staff/players go. Everything at that level is now set in stone until May (or at least that's the impression it gives) and means people can concentrate on planning a little bit longer-term. The situation is still not ideal, of course, but more upheaval is probably the last thing we need right now if a sale is not going to happen before the transfer window. Hopefully things will settle down a bit, with the players he's got/is getting back he'll be able to guide us to enough decent results to keep our heads above water, we'll retain a good core of our good players and regroup come February or the summer or whenever. This state of limbo that we're in at the moment is the most dangerous thing to us at the moment, not what players Kinnear is/isn't picking, any kind of information/stability on that front can surely only be of benefit to us on the whole. I see no reason to assume that. Given the economic situation, which will get a lot worse before it gets better, I don't see MA selling the club as he can't afford to take the hit with a cut price sell off. As for keeping our good players, that means the high earners that can't find another club and the lower paid shite who can't find another club. The rest will be off. Offering long term contracts to shite like ameobi will dig the hole even deeper. I never assumed, I said "hopefully". I fear you're probably right.

If Mike Ashley is still trying to sell the club, there's no way in Hell he will make big money signings. Sell to buy is the way it will be, I would imagine there will be more Guthrie/Bassong deals in the pipeline if we do make any moves in the transfer market. Alternatively, if there isn't a buyer anywhere to be found, he'll win a good portion of the fanbase over if he does plough some money in - because let's face it, a lot of supporters are as fickle as feck. As it stands, the situation is untenable and something needs to be done to remedy it if a sale is not forthcoming. I think we are at a crossroads as far as selling the club goes, and Kinnear's appointment till the end of a season gives us some breathing space. By the start of next year, either Ashley will drop the price of the club or decide to stay on. Either way I would expect a proper managerial appointment next season. At this current time I don't really see what could have been done differently as far as JK goes. My only gripe is that the price of the club should have been dropped earlier for a sale to go through, but that's another subject. Agree with all of that. JFK being kept on until the end of the season seems a natural choice now it's got to this stage - at least it offers some form of stability as far as the manger/staff/players go. Everything at that level is now set in stone until May (or at least that's the impression it gives) and means people can concentrate on planning a little bit longer-term. The situation is still not ideal, of course, but more upheaval is probably the last thing we need right now if a sale is not going to happen before the transfer window. Hopefully things will settle down a bit, with the players he's got/is getting back he'll be able to guide us to enough decent results to keep our heads above water, we'll retain a good core of our good players and regroup come February or the summer or whenever. This state of limbo that we're in at the moment is the most dangerous thing to us right now, not what players Kinnear is/isn't picking, any kind of information/stability on that front can surely only be of benefit to us on the whole.

He'll get another long-term deal and continue to be a drain on club resources for the most part. It's a crying shame. Injured yet again, I see...

If Mike Ashley is still trying to sell the club, there's no way in Hell he will make big money signings. Sell to buy is the way it will be, I would imagine there will be more Guthrie/Bassong deals in the pipeline if we do make any moves in the transfer market. Alternatively, if there isn't a buyer anywhere to be found, he'll win a good portion of the fanbase over if he does plough some money in - because let's face it, a lot of supporters are as fickle as feck. As it stands, the situation is untenable and something needs to be done to remedy it if a sale is not forthcoming.

I still don't see where the arguement for lack of money comes from. Keegan always said that funds would be made available for the right players, and that the Milner money would be part of that. I thought the only issue was that the system failed as it did not bring in enough players, maybe punched above it's weight going on wild goose chases for the likes of Schweinsteiger, and the biggie - not going for the players Keegan actually wanted. I don't think money has been held back only now to be released to Kinnear. This is a good point. While we obviously didn't get the players Kevin Keegan wanted or as many players as everybody wanted, the fact that we were prepared to make Modric a record signing and went on to spend upwards of £10m on a central defender is overlooked a little too often on here for my liking. Whether the system failed in this way is up for debate, obviously, because none of us know all of the ins and outs of what went on, but I do think the money was there if necessary. People just weren't pulling in the same direction.

I'm sticking with a score draw, despite Zog's involvement and Viduka being "involved at some stage" (Kinnear in the Chronicle today.)

I'll be very interested to see how much we're going to spend now. Still reckon it'll be peanuts like and that the squad will not improve.

No.

"Kinnear sees big roll for Smith in New Year" He just means he's going to take him out to Gregg's, doesn't he? Badum-dum-tisch!