magorific

There was a documentary which will offer some clarification to you which was aired on ITV1 earlier this week and should still be available to view. Having visited Hillsbrough several times prior to 89' I can totally understand how and why the fans went down the central tunnel that day. Thing about ALL "documentaries" is that they have an agenda. They are done solely to put all the blame on one side. Rarely (if ever) do they say both sides are to blame to varying extents. The one I saw was as bad as any I'd seen. It could have been done by the Liverpool Supporters Club ! You see these things, you make your own mind up. Odd how these crushes happened all the time, but never to this level, though. Odd also that Liverpool blamed everyone but themselves for the Heyshell disgrace too. If you knew - or admitted to yourself - anything about following NUFC away in the 80s, you'd acknowledge there would have been an overwhelming likelihood of the same happening to us had we been in that semi-final that year at that end of Hillsborough. It wasn't far off happening in our league game there a couple of years before. Something not too dissimilar WOULD have happened to us at Spurs in the cup in '87 had our lot not taken matters into their own hands and forced their way into an empty pen. Liverpool fans were as culpable for what unfolded as fans of any other club with a comparable away following (us, Man U,arguably the Mackems etc) would have been. Culpable in being there - nothing more. In the face of the facts revealed (or confirmed) today, talk of a mass drunken mob and forged tickets sounds ever more absurd.

Amazing to think now that I was allowed to follow Newcastle away as a young teenager in the 80s. Went to all away games in London and the south east - including Millwall, West Ham and Chelsea. Witnessed serious bother at all three as well as at Tottenham and Portsmouth, and wasn't far off being crushed to death in the FA Cup at Spurs in '87. Think Hillsborough opened my parents' eyes to just what could have been, but by then I had left home. The racism seemed to just come with the territory back then though. I didn't join in with the chanting (one song that sticks in the memory was "Zigger, zigger, zigger, shoot that n*gger, join the National Front") but I didn't speak out about it either. Not when it seemed at least half of the away end were at it.

I'm all for 4-3-3, particularly above dropping player(s) who came so good last season. Had we done to Ba at this stage last season what people are suggesting we do to Cisse (ie drop him), imagine how different our season would have been.

no where because no team in the top 4 wants him. and i doubt the teams outside the top 4 will match the wages he's on at liverpool or the transfer value. he made it clear AC wont leave on a loan. Those quotes though, sound like he wants the wages off if he cant sell him. Even if it does mean a season loan. Just trying to read between the lines of what Rodgers said. wont read anything rodgers is saying, he's clearly deluded and probably expect atleast 20 mill for the lad. i find it strange why he cant fit AC in the way he wants his team to play. AC is very underated footballer, he's not just a beanpole who gets on the end of things from long balls. Funnily enough lots on here seem to think he's one dimensional. I agree with you he is much better than that. Peerless in the air, very sweet left foot and one of the hardest working forwards I've ever seen. Also a massive help defending at set pieces. Remember one defensive header vs Blackburn the season before last cleared the halfway line. Baffles me that so many of our lot can't see that the person most to blame for Carroll's troubles at Liverpool was the manager Liverpool saw fit to sack.

We got by with weak links like Simpson last season - partly because other clubs (most obviously Liverpool, Chelsea - domestically - and Everton to an extent) under performed. We won't get by again. Right now, even with an almost fully fit squad, you're looking at playing kids in the Europa League. We need a stronger squad. End of.

He has a need to be constantly at the centre of attention, something his talent can't achieve. This.

That's a good shout but the 12 game ban could very well put Norwich (and any other club) off. Can't see it. Barton called both Hughton and Calderwood out in the worst possible terms in a training ground rant on the eve of our first game in the Championship. They rose above it, mainly because nobody would have touched Barton with a barge pole back then, but very much doubt they'll want him anywhere near Norwich.

The People = Alan Oliver....

The lads and lasses in China knocking out our new away kit now. Shirt and shorts ordered. Sorry Mike...

I think it worthy of particular respect because it was something which could have happened - almost did happen - to us and other fans in the 80s.

People forgetting Simpson gifted the ball to Arsenal - setting up a great chance for RVP - by selling Ben Arfa short with a ludicrous pass along his own byline?

The players you refer to WOULD have left us - and in that January - given the chance. Given lived and breathed this club and was genuinely sickened by what was happening (KK departure, Kinnear etc). The idea that with him we'd not have been relegated is also garbage. He wouldn't have converted the chances (eg vs Portsmouth) which Owen bottled.

Truly pitiful SMB discussion on/excuses for their p*ss poor crowd vs Norwich. Someone remind me our gate vs QPR (on the telly? check. not many away fans? check. f***in' freezing? check) again... http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=669414&page=4

If West Brom hang on, it's minimal harm done while Pards gets extra leverage to get a defender in.

Clyne wouldn't get in ahead of Simpson? We're talking about Danny Simpson, yeah??

Already ordered both France tops (Cabaye on back) from my man in Guangdong. Nice New Year clobber.

Jesus wept. I think you're suffering from "Battered wife syndrome".

No. Not even close.

Yet another worry with the way he's being treated is that, like we saw a bit against West Brom, HBA is likely to come on and simply try too hard. Must feel under massive pressure to make his cameos count.

Bolton. Away. Last season.

Him and Long would be some partnership..

No, the really frustrating thing is that on a couple of occasions - and one in particular - today, he showed the ability to go past two or three defenders at a time. He has the ability. Maddening as f*** when you see someone with talent but no application.

No, the really frustrating thing is that on a couple of occasions - and one in particular - today, he showed the ability to go past two or three defenders at a time. He has the ability. Maddening as f*** when you see someone with talent but no application.

Who else would you have played at CB though? There's no one, unless you count reserve/youth players. Go tell it to the "Ashley's got it right" brigade.

Perch = game over.