Colos Short and Curlies

Possibly the biggest of all for English football is what if Fergie hadn’t won that first trophy

We’ll that would be the dumbest move ever of true. hes still a NUFC employee, can’t do anything for those lot yet

I don't quite follow - sorry! I was cryptically saying that on average premier league players get paid more because the money is in the league through TV deals, so a comparable player in Germany or France will be on less wages than in England. Of course the money means that a Europa League club from England will (again on average) be able to spend more on a squad than the competition hence the English clubs always being in and around the favourites for all competitions

Over time a bigger wage bill suggests a bigger squad who should be able to cope with injuries better. We aren't at that level yet as we have a Europa League position wage bill but an outside expectation of Champions League placement but as a general point wages=expected performance isn't the worst starting point

And there is a reason premier league players are paid on average more than in other European leagues that is not linked to ability. You will get a player of the same ability from the German or French leagues for less wages than the equivalent in the Premier League. We did it with Bruno. You are right on the will they flop bit, but you can say the same about players moving between clubs - I'd give you Alexis Sanchez or Fernando Torres as 2 high profile 'sure bets' in fairly recent times who moved and flopped

You're ignoring the Premier League tax here. There are better midfielders in Europe and beyond than Big Joe who wouldn't cost what we will need to pay him. With a good scouting team and an ability to cycle players in and out every 2,3,4 years you could be ultra competitive without paying top Premier League wages.

You've taken the absolute Value rather than then position here haven't you? So we have a wage bill that is £60m higher than Luton but £70m less than Chelsea? I'd prefer to say that we need to outperform 5 teams relative to payroll in order to get top 4 but would need to underperform 9 teams to be relegated. Closer to 4th than 18th. If you take the figures you quoted as being more or less true I'd ignore the Manchester Clubs as they have to pay higher wages just for being City or Manure and I'd ignore Chelsea as they are just plain nuts. Spurs/Villa/Liverpool are the wages that should be sustainable for being competitive in and around the top 4 every year. I think Arsenal have overspent and over the next few years you'll see the 3/4 below them catch up as they stay relatively still

The only time that I will be fair to Kenny…. he needed to sell one of Les or Tino that summer, on paper with age etc Les was the right one to be sold and we should have had a front line of Shearer, Tino and JDT. There was a solid midfield behind them in Didi, Speed, Lee and Batty and bringing in Given was a good move. Even Pistone came in with a good rep as an attacking full back. of course we then lost Shearer and Tino was never really on it before he left. Rush and Barnes were emergency signings when the money had been spent and Shearer got injured. i think his approach would have been different if he had been able to play Shearer or Les that season.

We'd have a very different club now if we had beaten Sunderland in the playoffs

Lets be honest here lads, we're going to beat City and then lose to Coventry in the semis

that last point is plain daft. For all his positives Howe will never be able to rock the turtle neck like Pep can

if you read/quote the last part of my post you’d see that I’m in favour of that.

Chelsea have 4 home draws in the cup this year and 4 home draws in the Carabao, so no away draws at all. Don't think I'm suggesting anything here...

Quarters are right before the sodding international break aren't they? Full strength City team coming up

Its not a complicated theory at all, and I haven't made any reference to results or this season. Eddie is obviously a master at building a club up and making the players play above themselves for a period of time. There is evidence in 2 clubs, starting from 2 different bases to show this. There is also plenty of evidence that Mourinho and Ancelotti are masters at leading the biggest clubs and churning out trophies. There is also plenty of evidence that they know that they have a shelf life at each club and don't hang around. There is also plenty of evidence that Big Sam is a master of the escape from relegation scenario (as much as we all hate him). You wouldn't put Mourinho into Sheff Utd now and expect them to stay up, similarly you wouldn't put Big Sam in charge of City and expect them to continue their dominance. Managers like Klopp, Fergie, Wenger who can build a team up and then maintain the status at the top are few and far between. We're all hoping that Eddie is another one but there is no evidence (yet) that he will be. Nagglesmann is likely to be the best option available this summer if Eddie was to leave, but if the club are happy to fully back him now then I'd rather he stays (albeit I'd like to see an evolution in playing style and a bit more flexibility). My point in this thread has been back him or sack him at the end of the season, don't keep him on if there are doubts. I'm comfortable with either but happy that they've decided to back him early on.

Someone should have told Ratface that the whole club was available for £350m a few years ago, much cheaper and easier than moving us brick by brick to Old Trafford (via Beamish of course)

there’s another part to that in that maybe Eddies strength is in taking a club at rock bottom and building it up, but then isn’t the one who sustains and adds the cherry. they are different skill sets and have different pressures. People often say a Mourinho or Ancellotti wouldn’t do well at a Bournemouth, and they are probably right but they are 2 of the best at managing the big clubs

I don't think we'll get Liverpool, Klopp's final domestic game at Wembley is written in the stars. It will be Coventry away or Chelsea home I reckon

im being a little mischievous here, and I’m only quoting you NWM for the wording, not directing this to you. and for the record I do not believe Eddie is bang average. but… there is a fair bit of comment on how the players who got us to 4th last season are not good enough to take us forward and need to be sold. Reverting to type as above and last season was a move from the norm. so why can’t the same be true for Eddie and what we are now seeing is the real Eddie, with the first 18 months being exceptional? fwiw I said early in his tenure that I thought Eddie would win us a cup but wouldn’t get is the league. I stand by this. He’s done a phenomenal job to get us here, and I’ve a sneaky feeling that we’re going to get a nice draw this evening and will get to the final of the FA cup. I then have doubts on whether he has enough left to be the one who takes us forward again. Sometimes people just have a useful shelf life and ultimately lay the groundwork for the next person to benefit

Not taking every sodding set piece from the left would help in that regard as well.

If we don't see an improvement - or at least signs of something turning around (and we have a favourable fixture list to do this now) - then I really don't see the point in waiting to September to make a decision. All in or all out but be 100% clear on the decision

See I disagree with this. He's earned the right to have a clear decision on next season made early in the summer He's either got the whole of next season barring a total unforeseen disaster and therefore the summer going balls deep in Howeball and who he wants Or the board decide that this wasn't good enough and we move on. Being a little indecisive does Howe no favours as the summer will be compromised and we know that we can get a better manager in during the summer than we can in September.

tickle me Elmo

I know we beat Fulham but i thought the same in that game. we either don’t have a plan on how to play the players can’t execute the set plan the players don’t want to execute the set plan

Of course we will, against Liverpool. Actually no, scrap that. It will be City and we'll win. Then cruise past Coventry in the semis and get Liverpool in the final for the third leg of Klopps quadruple farewell tour