AyeDubbleYoo

We’ve been through all this before. We needed goals in the front line, we didn’t know Gordon would play so well at LW.

Always seemed a fair estimate that your chances are about half of what they were last season. A 1 in 5 chance, for example, can lead to very long losing streaks. As much as it allows me to go to every game, it wasn’t fair to bring general sale back.

Yeah agree, as long as they’re good and we don’t go back to needing Murphy to play minutes (for example).

I agree a bit, but also don't. Are we saying we need a first team supported by much worse squad players? Only going to exacerbate the Championship/Champions League nature of our squad, isn't it? I know because Barnes was signed rather than already here it's a debate, but still seems a move that might leave us weaker overall.

Don’t see how this game can cause any worry really. Expected defeat, just want to see a bit of fight and a decent performance.

He was wearing the armband tonight, didn’t get a clear look but I presume without the Jesus phrase.

Pundits saying West Ham had turned a corner after putting in a dire performance against us.

But surely you can't win by not promoting progressive values? Seems a bit like the woke argument, basically blaming people with compassion and belief in equality for the extreme reactions of people on the other side. Sometimes both sides of the argument aren't equally valid.

Yeah, we said earlier that we don't really know what he meant by this gesture. Still unfortunate that he felt he couldn't wear the armband as intended though.

Somehow it feels like you might be asking for forgiveness and not permission here.

Good point I guess sometimes rights conflict when there are different minority groups involved. Your right to religious freedom means you persecute another group who has the right to equality and protection from discrimination.

It was inevitable

A decent sentiment and as a non-believer I hope it’s genuinely felt, although I still disagree with the first part strongly myself.

In what way? Because there is scripture? I’m not sure how much value there is in this argument, the result is that you’re saying one group of people is inferior to another.

Very. This is why we’re lucky to live in the first world.

True, but it’s not exactly the same thing. The PL want to say ‘we as an organisation support LGBT people’. Instead of having a visible anti racism campaign they could write a couple of blog posts, but it’s a bigger priority than that.

Yeah, I think we get that generally. But what would you do in the case that the PL wants to promote equality and a player doesn’t?

There’s a lot in that post that would disagree with as premises, but I get what you’re saying. On the other hand, the PL is a global brand and these brands generally have values they feel they need to express because of their presence in society.

Anyone can have whatever beliefs they want in private. But some of them can’t be accepted in public in civilised society. That happens all the time. Someone wouldn’t really be accepted for being racist or hating women or whatever. It’s not an easy argument but that’s the way I lean.

I respect their right to different beliefs but I can’t accept that extends to accepting that people are fundamentally inferior because of things like sexuality. Do we just say to racists that their believes are equally valid?

You obviously can’t police what people think, not really sure what you’re asking. You can have standards for what people say or do.

Maybe the best option would’ve been that he had to step down from captaincy if he felt he couldn’t wear the armband. FWIW I respect religion immensely but it’s a lot more difficult when they have a belief like this which is in conflict with basic human life. I’m not sure how you can respect that bit so much.

Not as simple as that though. People’s freedom to practice their religion is to be respected, but when it comes into the public sphere it becomes a lot more complicated.

This sounds great and I agree with it principle. But how about things which are as basic as this. If someone opted out of an anti racism campaign because they thought black people were inferior, I don’t think we’d just be saying “fair enough, it’s personal belief”.

This is the generous view, yep. It’s possible.