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Very true...and its not like Rooney has a sparkling history of discipline either.

As long as the players are over the events of Saturday, we should really win this. There is nothing even remotely Premiership standard about West Brom Albion.

I don't really think it failed at Newcastle in all honesty. Wise has only operated one transfer window at this club. We sold some dead wood and got in some decent players. People are disappointed we didn't replace Milner, but hey we got 12 million pounds for him. Then the manager resigns, fans revolt, and the owner begins to sell up. That is hardly a fair assessment of any "system" in all honesty. Newcastle United is a failure more than anything really.

Essien has been surprisingly bad in the holding role actually. He has a real hard time staying in position and leaves the defence stranded at times. Both him and Lassana Diarra failed at the DM for Chelsea because of this. (Even now, Diarra is not really a holding player). It just goes to show that the holding role requires more than just physical attributes (Something people should learn before deploying the likes of Amdy Faye there). It requires very good intelligence as well as the ability to read the game and follow tactical instructions. If you look at Maka, he is not a great tackler and to be honest, he is rather short and rather slow. But he always seems to where the ball is or needs to go.

They are much smaller city of about 20-30k. They have heavily invested in their side, buying basically the best worlds best youth and almost like a Chelsea just establishing themselves as great, thats why they have shot up the leagues. However the thing they are doing is building the model of Arsenal with their academy, to make the club nigh self sufficient in terms of playing staff within the next few years. Still good to watch. Exactly. They are backed by a very rich businessman (Dietmar Hopp, who owns software giant SAP) and have a long term plan. They outspend most top division teams last season when they were still in the 2nd Bundesliga. They aren't a small city, though. They are a village of 3300 people... They did a great job attracting players like Chinedu Obasi and Carlos Eduardo to second division football. And their signings this season have been impressive. The results are no fluke. They are a young hungry and talented team that could be together for a while. Do you think QPR could do the same? (Please God No)

I think Tooj is wrong here though. A good holding midfielder is exactly what a club in a position like ours needs. When we are under pressure, we need someone to clean up the mess and get the ball forward. All of the top four have have fantastic holding players except for Arsenal (and frankly it this has been one of their main problems over recent seasons.) Also, it is very difficult to find a combination of two box to box players that works really well. Why have you posted your FM lineup in here?

To be fair you could support Real Madrid and Brazil and still have alot of material for a thread like this.

This topic is really inspired by the depressing stuff that's been flying around here lately. I would really like to exclude anything from this Saturday, as to avoid the vitriol seen in other threads or a Shepard v. Ashley supporter cage match again. Also, I'd like to ignore truly horrific things. Like watching the Marc Viven Foe incident for me or Hillsborough/Heysel for the older chaps. So first off, what is your worst Newcastle United (or whatever club you support) memory? Also, what is your worst moment from outside your favoured club? There are alot of bad moments to choose from NUFC to be honest. Even in my short time as someone who could coherently follow football, alot of depressing s*** has happened. I was too young to fully grasp the collapse in 1995-1996. So I can take solace in that I guess. My most depressing moment in all honesty is probaly the second leg against AZ Alkmaar in the 2006-2007 UEFA cup. Just today I was watching highlights of the first leg on youtube, and remembering how impressed and excited I was by the play of the team. Watching players like Dyer, Oba, Duff, and Solano fulfilling all their capabilities. Things were really looking up at this club in my opinion at least. But then came the second leg. (Although the badness began with Taylor's typical idiocy near the end of the first match.) We just capitulated. We had nothing. At all. It made for sad viewing at the time. But it has been made all the sadder because of the event s that followed. In my opinion, the club has seen nothing good since. That season, everyone gave up after that loss. And we saw continuous poor results until the end of it. And I don't know why but I have felt nothing positive over this club since. (Although I must say that with the players we brought in, I was slightly upbeat until September 1st this year). But still the dark cloud remains pissing cold dreary rain on my enjoyment of the game that I love. My other worst moment is kind of recent. I am a Nigerian, and unlike most people on this forum, I am very passionate about international football. So the worst non-Newcastle moment for me has to be from October 2005 when we missed the World Cup. The signs were throughout the campaign that poor coaching and indiscipline might finally cost us. But still we went into the last game with a decent chance. I remember watching the boys rip the s*** out of Zimbabwe. They really did look good. As they had since the old manager was sacked. But we all knew that the result depended what happened between Angola and Rwanda. How pathetic it was that an African footballing nation of our stature was relying on the likes Rwanda to send us to the World Cup. It was late on in the match and things were going to plan. We were strolling and Angola were drawing. Then the news came that Angola had scored. Nothing mattered anymore. The teams were tied on points, but they had the head-to-head. You could tell on tele when the news reached the stadium. The atmosphere went dead, and the players went flat. There was nothing we could do. The players could score twenty more goals but it wouldn't matter. There would be no trip to Germany for us. We waited in vain for a Rwanda reply, but it would never come. The tragedy was even worse for me for the same reason Newcastle tragedies are worse for Newcastle supporters that actually live in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. I was still living in Nigeria at the time. The pain was not just in me, but etched on the faces of everyone I saw. The feelings of anger, sadness, and emptiness pained my soul for months, like an ulcer burning in the pit of my bowels. So....what about you lot?..... :colo:

Yorkie, there is or was a reason why he was out of the game for so long and couldn't even hack it at Forest - because he's a crap manager. His bravado, passion and fighting talk will only wear for so long especially with these players. Unless they see results never mind us lot he'll lose them. West Brom will not be easy. Fair point. But he's manager of Newcastle now. I'm not confident of him breaking records, but i don't think he's done an especially horrific job so far and the jury's still out for me. He wasn't out of the game much longer than Keegan. People were saying the same things about Keegan too last year after the horror show of his first several matches. Both were a victim of circumstance and did not really have a chance to show their abilities.

I think Bolton, WBA, and Stoke will be relegated, I don't think any other teams will be close to them. Won't be interesting in my opinion.

Ya....Niang equalises for Marseille. 1-1

Spurs needed a striker though, Mido was as good as gone and that left them with Keane, Defoe and Berbatov, you can't go into a season with only 3 first team strikers on your books. They also signed Bale who was their first choice left winger until he got injured. People generally laugh at the Bent signing because of the cost. And really clubs who aren't getting CL revenues shouldn't spend that much on a 3rd/4th choice striker.

The DOF only really worked at Spurs when Arnsen & Jol were working together because they both trusted each other. The benefits of that partnership helped them get a couple of 5th place's. When Arnsen first arrived at Spurs it was not working out because him & Jacky Santini could not work together. Agreed, and this speaks volumes really. It's pretty much what i'm saying. Santini was an established manager, he'd done his own thing with Lyon and then the French national team. He'd been a manager for twenty years or so before joining the set-up at Tottenham. Makes you wonder why they appoint such people? Granted, he was negative as f*** and struggled with the language, but still. Enter Jol; new, cultured. Only other history of being a manager was with Dutch amateur teams and lower-division sides. But generally regarded as a very good coach and motivator. There you go, the system clicks. Most successful period in the clubs history, with a manager with essentially no history. Yes... he left after disagreements with the 'DOF', who was by that point Comolli. It worked with Jol and Arnesen. I know my arguments is based around the idea that you've got to appoint the right manager, but i appreciate it works both ways, you need the right DOF too. It can work and it has worked. If you appoint the right people. I thought he was sacked because Spurs were f***** terrible at the start of last season. In fact, I'm sure this is the case as they had Ramos lined up.

djmattis..what is your view of my compatriot Victor Nsofor Obinna? I was dissappointed that loan deal to Everton fell through, because he looked promising in Beijing and I wanted him to get first team football, but I see he scored last week. In other news Hoffenheim were powered by two goals from Chinedu Ogbuke Obasi and one from Ibisevic. They beat Hamburg 3-0 and are top of Bundesliga.Crazy stuff. Really looking forward to watching the big derby between Marseille and PSG tonight. Marseille are a favourite of mine and they have a legitimate chance of winning the league this year.

Who sold/replaced them? Dave, the standard has been set in this league. Gareth Barry was def. an exception. For the most part when a top four club wants your player, they get him. It's sad but true.

When did Keegan say this? You'd figure Keegan didn't have much of a good look at him. Considering he abandoned ship the day Xisco was signed.

He looks far more of a 30m player than Berbatov so far. too cheap for robinho btw. that money consider berbatov cost. left sided player is very rare indeed. and robinho just a master of it. The only players in the history of football with higher transfer fee than Robinho are Crespo, Figo, and Zidane. I'm sorry, but Robinho is worth nowehere near 30 million pounds. He wasn't even on of the key players at Madrid.

Arnesen has done a poor job at Chelsea actually. Surprising considering he was top class at Spurs. The youth program at Chelsea has really not developed as well as they would have liked. The two biggest transfers really accredited to him are Kalou and Mikel John Obi. These two players have done well at Chelsea, but Kalou was not cheap, and Obi ended up costing them 16 million pounds, so it kind of defeats the point. I think the people crying the "death" of this director of football system are just fools by the way. It didn't work at this club. But let's be honest with ourselves, nothing much has worked here for a while now. This club has been a shambles for several seasons now. We haven't experienced a downturn this year in my opinion. We are just continuing the pattern of terrible teams, that has been set here. Things were actually looking up imo. We got in some nice players. Young ones too, but then in typical fashion everything imploded. This DOF system has nothing to do with the failure of a club that is Newcastle United.

You clearly have a vendetta against Cech. I can understand why though, he is a c***, getting his skull broken and all. But seriously goal was a nasty deflection. Chelsea didn't have anything today though.That front three was a disgrace to Abramovich's wallet tbh. Their midfield is the best in the world week in and week out, but even they were off today. Especially Lampard, he seemed off the pace to me. And they really could have used Ballack or Essien instead of Deco, who is not really meant to play the position he was. Nonsense tbh. Robinho doeds not look like the best player in the history of British football if you ask me.

'twas signed.

Or Keegan ? Would be a terrible appointment.

I assume Tony Adams becomes manager at Portsmouth? I mean I guess they wouldn't want to change much, things are going as well as they have for a long time at Portsmouth.

Keegan did the same until the penny dropped. Nonsense statement Mick. Both managers have selected these players out of necessity. (The highpoint of Keegan's reign, the Spurs match, featured goals from Butt and Geremi infact.) Luckily it seems that the days of Butt and Duff in the starting XI are coming to a swift end. I have no problem with Mr. Njitap.

It would make sense. Harry is fantastic at operating on a budget anyway. Great at finding obscure talent. I am amazed he would leave Portsmouth though. By the way, Sky Sports are carrying some story about Mourinho being in talks with United, that doesn't even make sense. We don't need Mourinho, we've got Kinnear. Should have specified Manchester, yeah? The thought of Jose at Manchester United is giving me nightmares. I need to go get pissed tonight honestly, just so I don't think about that s***.

What the hell are you complaining about? Harry Redknapp may be spastic but he is a good manager.