Fatwax

I'm not making excuses for him at all. My argument is that Ashley has had plenty of time to sort us out since then and the only consistency has been his ability to f*** up chance after chance. Try using a bit of logic sometime. Pointing out where Keegan is to blame is not making excuses for anyone else. Try following your own advice. Pointing out that Ashley has made a bad situation much worse is not making excuses for Keegan.

So not Shola then.

I'm not making excuses for him at all. My argument is that Ashley has had plenty of time to sort us out since then and the only consistency has been his ability to fuck up chance after chance.

People only say Keegan left us in the s*** because of what went on after. Keegan didn't appoint JFK, Keegan didn't offer him an extended contract, Keegan wasn't the one who decided not to appoint a full-time manager and get on with things. Keegan isn't the one who has tried to gamble our Premiership future by cutting costs and not re-investing in the first team in January when we needed it. No, I was of the opinion that Keegan had left us in the lurch by leaving at the worst possible time, at the time. Keegan, is a principled football man, he wasnt going to stick around ashleys circus, once he found out what they were up to. Are you happy with what they are up to? No. But that doesn't alter the fact that KK left us in the lurch at the worst possible time. When is the best possible time? End of the season. People would have still moaned that we had to spend time looking for a new manager while we should be out getting players. Ashley and his munters have had ample time to steady the ship. Its heading for an epic FAIL. Ashley making bad decisions later does not absolve Keegan of anything. They're both to blame. Fan overreaction to Keegan's departure has been another part of the problem. Nobody (except probably CP40 ) is claiming that Keegan is blameless.. but during the aftermath I think that Ashley has come out much, much worse than Keegan. Ashley has fucked up constantly since infact. Wasted a transfer window Poor appointment in JFK Giving him a contract until the end of the season Going on to offer him a 2 year deal (this has been confirmed by Llambtits I believe) Spinning off constant lies through JFK. One minute we're not carrying any debt, next there's no money to spend, next we're still paying off previous players.. there's no consistency at all with what's being said. If all it takes to decide to sell up is a protest at a game then he really needs to invest in a backbone. How the hell did he expect us to react?

Trouble is that ability doesn't count for much if you're never in a position to use it. I think we got a very good deal with the money for Parker, but after all the crap that Barton has brought on this club I feel like we've been cockslapped with the 5.8m we paid for him.. it was about that I think?

He hasn't had a full season there yet. He's got plenty of time to show what he can do and most probably will. I'm not sure if he's worth £30m or not but I'm sure Fergie knows a bit more than me on the subject.

People only say Keegan left us in the s*** because of what went on after. Keegan didn't appoint JFK, Keegan didn't offer him an extended contract, Keegan wasn't the one who decided not to appoint a full-time manager and get on with things. Keegan isn't the one who has tried to gamble our Premiership future by cutting costs and not re-investing in the first team in January when we needed it. No, I was of the opinion that Keegan had left us in the lurch by leaving at the worst possible time, at the time. Keegan, is a principled football man, he wasnt going to stick around ashleys circus, once he found out what they were up to. Are you happy with what they are up to? No. But that doesn't alter the fact that KK left us in the lurch at the worst possible time. When is the best possible time? End of the season. So Keegan isn't happy with how things are being run and decides to walk, but he'll wait until the end of the season to do so.. How could that possibly work? There'd be another power struggle in the January transfer window, there'd be a bias in player selection which would cause a rift amongst the squad and some players would inevitably stop respecting him since he wouldn't be around for much longer anyway. It'd also lead to another transition season since things such as playing staff and coaching staff would change at the end of the season again.

People only say Keegan left us in the s*** because of what went on after. Keegan didn't appoint JFK, Keegan didn't offer him an extended contract, Keegan wasn't the one who decided not to appoint a full-time manager and get on with things. Keegan isn't the one who has tried to gamble our Premiership future by cutting costs and not re-investing in the first team in January when we needed it. No, I was of the opinion that Keegan had left us in the lurch by leaving at the worst possible time, at the time. Keegan, is a principled football man, he wasnt going to stick around ashleys circus, once he found out what they were up to. Are you happy with what they are up to? No. But that doesn't alter the fact that KK left us in the lurch at the worst possible time. When is the best possible time? It was at the beginning of the season, we could have easily turned things around if Ashley had approached the situation differently.

Not knee-jerking or anything of course. People said the same kinda thing about Robinho after the 2-2 draw at our place. One game hardly defines a player.

Barton is better than Parker. In theory, yeah. Parker doesn't get into nearly enough shit as Barton does though and is no way near as injury prone.

it wasn't the tackle on Bullard that changed him, it was being made captain. Our midfield was affected more by the loss of Dyer and Solano than Parker.

Capdevilla, who's getting on a bit. Don't think Spain have been blessed with a lot of depth in the LB position so he may have a decent chance. The fact that he plays for Newcastle might hurt him a bit though How's Del Horno getting on these days? Don't think he's getting a game for Valencia seeing how I haven't heard his name uttered in the past year or so. Was kinda forgetting that he existed actually. Yeah he kinda dropped off the radar a bit.

Capdevilla, who's getting on a bit. Don't think Spain have been blessed with a lot of depth in the LB position so he may have a decent chance. The fact that he plays for Newcastle might hurt him a bit though How's Del Horno getting on these days?

Brilliant link up between Lovenkrands & Martins.

If we are relegated, Souness will have been one of the main culprits despite the fact that he is now almost 5 years removed from the club. As much as I dislike Souness I think thats harsh. Mainly because Ashley/Keegan/Wise/Lambias/whoever you blame for what happened had the chance to atone for the mistakes he made, and we were doing, butwe messed it up in a far bigger way than anything Souness was ever responsible for. You're right, but on the other hand we wouldn't have had to appoint Roeder and then Allardyce if Souness hadn't been appointed and £50m was wasted on signings that were terrible for us in hindsight. Of course the whole thing is theoretical but if we had got in a good quality manager he could have been able to keep the current team together and improve on it and push us on. You know all of this already of course.

I hate yourself for even suggesting it too.

I'm going to take this thread as a heat of the moment thing. He's a horrible, horrible manager that destroyed our team and set us off to where we are now.

Surely you've been to a match not involving your team before and been swept up in it when the team scores? I know I have with the Sheff Wed & Barnsley games I've been to. I think that's what annoys me the most to be honest, having the piss taken out of me for supporting Newcastle. It's like calling someone 'four eyes' surely.

Source?

Remind me again of your footballing credentials and experience in the game at a professional level? I'm genuinely interested.

True, but at least answer his question.

I feel that I'm starting to watch the games now out of habit. In the last 10 minutes of the match today when everyone was going mental I just didn't care. I've got enough crap going on without this shit team ruining every one of my weekends. Saying that though, I doubt I'll stop watching.

I've always assumed it's because their bodies are tuned into performing for 90 minutes at a time. I always got cramp whenever I was in a cup match and it went into overtime. Maybe muscle fatigue kicks in after so long and the lactic acid gets involved. Or maybe Lennon is a faggot. This entire subject is a minefield.

Yeah but that's what is making the story so laughable. I'd rather keep Wise, with Kinnear in charge than have Kinnear doing this role and our only two first team coaching being in charge of the first team. The whole story is bollocks anyway. What a waste of my eyesight.

A bit simplistic don't you think? It's not as him being gone or the circumstances surrounding his departure could have no ramifications on our future.. I don't think it's simplistic, more jaded. No amount of moaning, sulking and getting pissed off will make any difference. I've started to think that I read this board and support the team more out of habit than anything at the moment as the last several seasons have just battered the emotion that I have for the game out of me. Shay has gone, the board seemingly want to back Kinnear and there's fuck all ambition being shown. I've got enough going on to burst a blood vessel over this tripe being dished up to me week in week out. If I could I'd probably walk away for good but as I'm sure it is with you too you just can't. Doesn't mean that I feel the same amount of love and passion I used to. Supporting this club at the moment is like seeing the first girl I ever truly love become a crack whore.