Interpolic

We have a habit of participating in sinfully boring games, probably just a coincidence though.

Shock.

Why the fuck would that matter? FFS man, this top-ten thing is becoming embarrassing.

Also, Arsenal had 9 points from their last 9 League games before tonight. Hardly a guarantee they'll win the remainder of their fixtures, although they might of course.

FFS man, Mole. Calm down.

Particularly one with such a big following, who haven't won a trophy in 45 years. Giving up on bothering to try to win one after all this time takes the fucking piss, from a fan's perspective.

I would too, we've been patting ourselves on the back for far too long now and it would be good to see players, manager and staff fall flat on their face after the joke we've been on the whole since Boxing Day.

According to Swiss Ramble our wage to turnover is 63%, Spurs 65%. https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/media There are other tables on there which you might be interested in. According to Transfer League Liverpool have spent 17 million net per season over the last 5 years or 309m gross. Spurs gross is 310m but their sales bring that down to a very low net spend per season. Regards the accounts. "Meantime club bank debts decreased by 29 per cent – due in the main to a £46.8m interest free, inter company loan to the Reds via owners Fenway Sports Group. That was used to pay off debts relating to previous failed stadium projects under the ousted Hicks and Gillett regime." I'm not sure what conversation you're having here. I was just making the point that Liverpool's owners were writing cheques to keep paying a wage bill that would have been putting them miles into the red otherwise. That's all. There's another conversation to be had about the spectacular commercial deals that Fenway have brought in. All fair and above board (none of the ludicrous deals that Man City have used to circumvent FFP), but completely disproportionate compared to what's been happening on the pitch. They've just successfully maintained and exploited a brand image, notably in the US. In the 2012/13 figures they got nearly 20M more than Chelsea (who have finished above Liverpool in 10 of the last 11 years), 50% more than Arsenal (above Liverpool in 9 of 11), more than twice that of Spurs and more than five times that of Newcastle. That's impressive, but leaves me feeling empty inside, and just adds to my disillusion with the game. As a Spurs fan, I know more than most the importance of keeping the bullshit going through the fallow years after being one of the top clubs. Despite being s*** for years, we tried to keep the perception in some parts of the media and fandom that we were a snoozing giant. With the capable assistance of the media and Fenway, you've managed the same (despite not falling quite as low), and are now reaping the rewards. THIS THIS THIS. The L'pool owners have dug into their pockets because they know they can turn L'pool into Manchester United. The brand is one of maybe 8, in worldwide football with that type of appeal. None of the others could have been bought. They wouldn't have tried it with any other club. This is not some type of victory for football. A 100% self sufficient club like Spurs or Arsenal winning the league would be a victory for football. Atletico Madrid haven't spent any net transfer money in 3 years.. them winning either (or both) La Liga/CL would be a legitimate win for football. And even then they had overspent in the preceding 5 years. They haven't spent anywhere near as much as Chelsea and Man City though, which is who they'll beat to the League if they manage it. It's not even close in that respect, they've spent a fair chunk but nowhere near as outrageously as the 2 sides they look like pipping to the title.

Absolutely. I was trying to get across that whether we've finished top 5(11/12) or bottom 5 (12/13) or somewhere in between (13/14), the performances throughout have been standard Pardew, and ALWAYS offered diminishing returns. For better or worse, due to finishing 5th the year before and not having been backed in the summer, he got off light with criticism last year, Ashley took the brunt of criticism from most media and many of the more pragmatic (without any positive or negative connotation on that word) fans. Fair enough, I agree that injections of quality into the squad have generally led to us looking better but it's always short-lived, as you say. It's frustrating because we could have arguably built on something more concrete at the end of the season we finished 5th and going into the following season, i.e. the 433 formation/tactics/style of play we employed for a few games to great effect, but of course Pardew abandoned it to go back to 442 first chance he got.

I don't see the wisdom of blaming the failure that was last season 100% on lack of investment or 100% on Pardew or 100% on anything else for that matter. Far too many times I looked at our lineup last season and thought we should have far too much for the opposition on paper, then we got beat. That's the manager's responsibility, along with the coaching staff and the players. Near-relegation was obviously due to a combination of factors and it was obvious at the time, just as it is now, that the manager should take his share of the blame. Only now is that happening widely, 12 months later.

:lol: What the fuck.

We know that Ashley doesn't give a fuck about what the fans think. We know that Ashley doesn't like to spend money. Why would he hire someone just to use them as a scapegoat? Did he suddenly start to care what the fans think or did he suddenly decide he liked wasting money? I see little evidence of either in any other aspect of the club. If he was so keen to keep the fans onside, why would he hire Kinnear in the first place? Why wouldn't he hire someone we respected to be DoF then use them as a scapegoat? Wouldn't that be more plausible? It just doesn't add up. It's fucking bonkers. I'd dispute your first point, which would sort of negate much of the rest of your post tbh. Few questions for you, if Ashley doesn't care a jot what the fans think... - Why did he throw a massive paddy when fans were kicking off at him after the Keegan stuff, reacting by putting the club on the market in a huff? - Why did he do similar when the Chronicle objectively and innocuously reported a protest march in their paper, banning all TH publications from the ground? - Why are his staff consistently trying to dampen expectations in the media, if not to limit fan anger and fuel apathy? - Why are they consistently mis-leading the fans on issues such as transfer fees paid out, if not to avoid being berated by the fans for not spending what we bring in? - Why the cloak-and-dagger approach to explaining the Sports Direct advertising issue? If he's not bothered about the fans, why doesn't he just say it's his ground and they can fuck off? - Why is the club run in such a shady, secretive way, where every communication with the fans is watered down and again geared towards lowering expectations? They're just a few questions, there'd be more if I could be arsed to think of them. But the point I'm making is that although fan's feelings clearly aren't the be-all-and-end-all for Mike Ashley, he benefits from an easier ride, which is unfortunately all too often afforded to him due to the fractured nature of our support, general apathy/resignation in the stands (much of it resulting from years of the club saying/doing things that suggest we're not much cop as a football club, in contrast to previous years where we'd be allowed to dream and knew we'd try to compete) and also many of our fans falling for the quite obvious decoys being put in front of them, such as an excuse-machine manager and a DOF who people would point and laugh at and then later on blame when no players were brought in and our best one was sold. You even heard it at the time, fans all over the shop going "It's the Director Of Fuck-All's fault, he's not doing his job properly", so it clearly was believable to some. I can't be bothered to reply to every point so I'll just go back to the only one that matters... If he cares what the fans think and wants to keep them onside then why is Joe Kinnear his DoF appointment? Nobody, sympathiser or hater, wanted Joe Kinnear in that role. No one thought it would work out. No one looks at that and thinks "fair play, Ashley is free from blame here." It was a massive fuck up and one he rightly gets blamed for. That's not good PR. Not spending money or appointing a fucking chimpanzee who fails to spend any money, he still comes out of it looking like shit. Fans are still pissed off. We can still do fuck all about it. What did he gain? It worked out really well for Ashley IMO, diverted some attention from us spending zero cash in 2 transfer windows and gave some a person to blame. Also took a bit of pressure off the manager. As you say, not all fans are as cynical as those on here, or other like-minded people who don't come on this forum for that matter. I think it was a smoke-and-mirrors, diversionary tactic and it worked. 3 years of profit on the balance sheet running to the end of last season, followed by 2 windows of no spending, £20m for Cabaye, the increased TV money and a few high earners off the wage bill. The profit this season will be obscenely high and fans on the whole have barely even moaned at the chronic lack of investment they were witnessing. Job done.

How many years do we need to see us spending significantly less than we bring in for it to click like? We consistently find ways to do it, so no wonder people are cynical. It appears to be the plan. Can't believe we're still having this conversation after 7 years of seeing it happen in front of our eyes.

We know that Ashley doesn't give a fuck about what the fans think. We know that Ashley doesn't like to spend money. Why would he hire someone just to use them as a scapegoat? Did he suddenly start to care what the fans think or did he suddenly decide he liked wasting money? I see little evidence of either in any other aspect of the club. If he was so keen to keep the fans onside, why would he hire Kinnear in the first place? Why wouldn't he hire someone we respected to be DoF then use them as a scapegoat? Wouldn't that be more plausible? It just doesn't add up. It's fucking bonkers. I'd dispute your first point, which would sort of negate much of the rest of your post tbh. Few questions for you, if Ashley doesn't care a jot what the fans think... - Why did he throw a massive paddy when fans were kicking off at him after the Keegan stuff, reacting by putting the club on the market in a huff? - Why did he do similar when the Chronicle objectively and innocuously reported a protest march in their paper, banning all TH publications from the ground? - Why are his staff consistently trying to dampen expectations in the media, if not to limit fan anger and fuel apathy? - Why are they consistently mis-leading the fans on issues such as transfer fees paid out, if not to avoid being berated by the fans for not spending what we bring in? - Why the cloak-and-dagger approach to explaining the Sports Direct advertising issue? If he's not bothered about the fans, why doesn't he just say it's his ground and they can fuck off? - Why is the club run in such a shady, secretive way, where every communication with the fans is watered down and again geared towards lowering expectations? They're just a few questions, there'd be more if I could be arsed to think of them. But the point I'm making is that although fan's feelings clearly aren't the be-all-and-end-all for Mike Ashley, he benefits from an easier ride, which is unfortunately all too often afforded to him due to the fractured nature of our support, general apathy/resignation in the stands (much of it resulting from years of the club saying/doing things that suggest we're not much cop as a football club, in contrast to previous years where we'd be allowed to dream and knew we'd try to compete) and also many of our fans falling for the quite obvious decoys being put in front of them, such as an excuse-machine manager and a DOF who people would point and laugh at and then later on blame when no players were brought in and our best one was sold. You even heard it at the time, fans all over the shop going "It's the Director Of Fuck-All's fault, he's not doing his job properly", so it clearly was believable to some.

I'm not buying that Kinnear was simply a bad appointment and we coincidentally didn't buy anyone for 2 whole transfer windows like. Sometimes you need to read between the lines a bit, not one person thought that was a good appointment but it's far too convenient that Kinnear served as the scapegoat for doing precisely what Ashley loves doing when not pressed otherwise by factors such as potential relegation, i.e. spending the square root of fuck-all. Seems far more fanciful to believe it was an innocent mistake that didn't work out, made by someone who wants the best for the club.

Uh-oh.

Course he's happy. Guy's rubbish at his job and getting paid a shit ton. I'm really good at my job and get paid his weekly wage in probably 2+ years. It makes me fucking furious pay taylor shola's wages

Ah no idea, couldn't even hazard a guess.

Looks so fucking satisfied with himself when he says he's done a brilliant job getting us to 8th.

Chelsea at home was a good 20 minutes out of the 90 tbh. The usual nothingness from our point of view before that.

Off to a pub without televisions now, laters. Don't overreact too much, lads.

Alan Pardew excuses XI: Spies Carnival - Fans - Not Enough Fans - Science Sovereign States - Injuries - Energyless - Europe Not Middle Class Enough - Ben Arfa

Glorious.