Kid Icarus

These posts are reading like a battle in one-upmanship. Any advances on 4th best CB this season and not better than Jamal Lascelles?

Because you're a smart dude. I would expect you to know that 'panic buy' doesn't apply to Wissa at all and has connotations of us going for a player we didn't want as a last resort, which wasn't the case. Overpaid, held to ransom, paid a premium, painted into a corner, lack of plan B etc? Absolutely all apply, not panic buy though - you don't panic buy a player you've been after for months. Our strategy was bizarre in the summer - whether the problem was that we had ideas above our station and didn't strategise accordingly, whether it was actually very standard practice and the issue was that it was all very public, or it was that we were naive, or just simply didn't have a proper DoF, who knows, probably all of it to an extent, but I do feel for Howe x2 and Nickson for being put in that position in the first place and as I said at the time it had a very 'the operation was a success but the patient died' feeling about it.

Yes really. Whether he had fit straight in or taken time is moot if he's injured and going to AFCON. That's not 3 to 6 months settling in, and the person who posted about us giving him time only mentioned match fitness and him understanding the system - nothing about 3 to 6 months. It's an inflated fee for a player we clearly wanted and chased for the full window. If you think that's what's widely defined as a panic buy, then I'd have to disagree and I don't think I'd be the only one. How we ended up getting Woltemade is much nearer to what's generally considered a panic buy. Posts like that stick out like a sore thumb as not playing with a straight bat to me personally.

Some creative writing going on here mind. I'm more than happy to criticise the club for last summer, but to describe an injury as '3 to 6 months to settle in' and a player we were after for months as a 'last minute panic buy' are very strange ways to describe the situation.

I remember it well yeah. But I also remember thinking that why it was still a minority view was in no small part because of his standing in the game and that it meant having faith in him to sort it out was based on something. Howe has that more this season than last, but it's not at the level of a league and Champions League winner.

I said it last year but I think it's worth repeating because the same applies now even more so and we do have a tendency to not be able to see beyond our own noses. One of the problems Howe has at the moment is that he still doesn't have the high level kudos to make people look elsewhere when things go downhill just yet. I said the above last year, pre-EFL Cup win, so it's improved a bit for him, but that aside his brilliant achievements are still quite intangeable and modest compared to others. Guardiola and Emery had that advantage in their poor spells, Rafa had it with us, Klopp had it in 22/23. They have the CVs to ward off fingers being widely pointed at them and the reasonable assumption is that the problems lie elsewhere - be it era transitioning, injuries, scouting, recruitment etc. Any of the above in the same situation as Howe now (which we shouldn't forget, they have been, albeit a couple of them in much more first world problems terms where PSR doesnt exist) and they get every benefit of any doubt, rightly so. Guardiola, last season in-particular had it and even now they're nowhere near the levels they've reached and are still in transition. Even in seasons they won, they still had things like a long-standing record of never winning when Rodri didn't play, or making selection and tactical decisions in big knockout games that were seen as him overthinking things Likewise Klopp in his last 2 seasons when it was clear that team was coming to an end and they needed a refresh had it despite them playing rubbish. I'm not saying Howe is Guardiola or Klopp, but we are a team in transition, not just because of the amount of player turnover, but because we've completely changed our attacking focal point. It's going to take time to get it right and I have every confidence that Howe will.

Yeah the why is where we'll always fundamentally disagree. Despite that I would still think we'd agree that regardless of why, it was still shite though.

No they didn't

Nah, he's also a good defender.

Least of our problems today

Side point to Andy, but the summer being shit doesn't necessarily have to be about whether players will come good or not. You're absolutely right to say that it's too early to judge the individual players that we ended up getting in November, particularly with the huge overhaul we had. However, that we ended up with those players and how is another matter. Then there's the overhaul (which we know Howe doesn't like), the drama, the very public nature of everything we did, the huge additional workload on Howe (and it taking his attention away from coaching), all the pressure that comes with it, the decision to sell Isak - all of that caused varying degrees of damage in different ways imo and I'm a strong believer in off field problems transferring to the general vibe around the club, to the crowd, and in the end, into performances and results.

He made a mistake and it cost us. Very good apart from that imo. Don't rate Ramsdale at all, so we'll see where the dust settles if he gets the nod.

It doesn't help that his best attribute (playing a really slick pass into midfield or the forward line) feels like a suicidal move when all bar Woltemade can't seem to hang onto the ball and as soon as they lose it the opposition are bearing down on us with players out of position.

FWIW I've long thought that Burn does a really good job of making up for his obvious unsuitability to LB and do still think that for what he is - our third choice LB - he's doing a good job in that context. Not today though, today was when the usually hyperbolic stuff you see about his performances was actually the reality.

Yeah, I've thought that, particularly after we go 1 up. Wouldn't mind if it was a case of us blitzing teams to go 2 up then did it like we used to, but we're so slow and ponderous. Easily outmuscled and literally the worst in the league for winning 50/50s, which is mental considering.

Hung out to dry by Howe unfortunately. About as clear cut a case of that as you're ever likely to see.

It was shit in that it was a huge overhaul and we've had to change our style more than any individual players. More often than not in situations like that it's going to take time and as we know, Howe prefers players to have that time behind the scenes rather than bring thrust into the limelight.

Because there's much, much more to our situation than that that shouldn't need to be brought up.

I vividly remember us playing badly at the start despite winning, then having a bad run of results where we played well but couldn't finish chances, then Brentford away was a sort of watershed moment, Howe put a fire up their arses and we started winning. Very hard to see where the run starts from this season, if at all.

To come to the conclusion that he's the thing that's not working is definitely a bit mental.

Have to be honest, I don't remember us being this bad last season. Weirdly we played poorly and picked up results, then played well and didn't, but it felt like it was coming. This time we're playing poorly and aren't getting results, but it's the work in progress part that makes us an unknown. Last season we just needed to be more clinical in what we were doing. This season we need to find out what we're doing before getting to the clinical part.

Lemme know when it's anywhere near half this

Fucking hell that was bad. Really bad. There's not an element of our game at the moment I can point to and say at least that's good. I missed West Ham so today was a real shock to see like. Everyone, including Howe were poor at best today. It's at the point now where it feels like the worst thing we can possibly do in any match is take the lead. I love Howe, but for him to not see that shocking non-pen decision as an act of God and immediately take Burn off when he was on a yellow is genuinely staggering. Every conceivable part of the scenario where you bring Hall on had been fulfilled. Hall fit, Burn playing badly, Burn on a yellow, Burn gets away with a blatant pen, and looking like he might get a 2nd yellow. Kept him on and not only did he inevitably get a second yellow, he gave away a pen. I'm shocked tbh. It's such a basic thing to do for such a clever bloke. It seems like how that all played out is basically the only way Burn was going to drop out for Hall. Only plus point I see right now is in there being an international break. They're terrible when you're in form and welcome when you're not. Hopefully Howe can figure this out, because it's not just poor performances and being a work in progress, right now we're failing at the bare basics - particularly tackling, second balls, and press resistance. Could say loads more but I'd be here forever. Could have summarised by saying it was shite. Pope: 6 Trippier: 6 Thiaw: 6.5 Botman: 5.5 Burn: 2 Joelinton: 4.5 Ramsey: 4.5 Bruno: 6 Tonali: 4.5 Murphy: 5 Woltemade: 5 Barnes: 6.5

That's 100% a pen. I'd be absolutely raging if that happened to us.

He's the only player I know who nearly always puts topspin on his finishes. Surprising that more players don't do it tbh, it's a great way to still score even if a player gets a touch on the way in.