Holmesy

It is 100% Eddie Howe’s fault, 100%. Burn is absolutely the wrong choice for whatever we’re trying to execute right now.

I am, I really am. Thanks for making me see the error of my ways. Ever thought of being a therapist?

So change the system so we can accommodate two fullbacks. Virtually every other team in the league manages it - Liverpool play with Trent and Robertson, and last time I looked they were pretty fucking good! No one is holding a gun to Eddie’s head telling him he has to play a lopsided formation, with Burn dropping into a 3 to allow Trippier to get forward. It’s his system. And it currently doesn’t work! So change the fucking system. When Tino was starting games, the world didn’t end. In fact we looked more balanced and better defensively than we do now. We’re not suggesting some wild, experimental setup that’s never been seen before. We’ve seen it, and it worked. That’s why we’re so incredulous at this predictable clown show we’re being served up.

No, not all of them but you could make an argument for probably 4-5 out of the last 10. Of course the system exposes him, which is why his continued selection is so completely baffling. It’s basically an indefensible move on Howe’s part. “It’s not Dan Burn’s fault, it’s the midfield not giving him protection”. Right, but they’re not giving him protection every game, leaving him one v one against pacey wingers who rinse him. That’s just the way we play, so don’t fucking pick him. Whichever way you try to justify Dan Burn’s selection, you can’t. It doesn’t make sense on any level. Whether it’s Burn’s fault or not, he should not be playing.

This is the argument I don’t get. We are literally shipping 3 goals per game on average. Every time Dan Burn goes anywhere near the halfway line we are in danger of conceding on the break. Are you suggesting we’ll ship 4 per game if we swap Burn for Livra, who actually has the pace to get back? People are making arguments against certain changes as if we’re defensively solid. Our defensive system doesn’t work, at all. Changing it is the only thing that makes sense.

Burn dropping into a 3 means nothing though when you’re conceding goals for fun. Defending the player because he slots into a defensive system that doesn’t work, isn’t really defending the player….or the manager

We have a player in the first team who is single handedly costing us goals on a consistent basis and yet there’s no danger of him being dropped. Whichever way you look at it, that is shit management. Going into every game knowing you have to score at least 2 goals to win it because your loyalty to a player who should’ve been dropped weeks ago means we’ll definitely concede at least 1 is fucking ludicrous. It’s beyond comprehension. The idea that what Burn gives us in other areas makes up for his calamities is total bollocks. With him in the team were shipping goals for fun. Where’s the danger in swapping him for someone else? We concede more? Not going to happen!

FFS! Permacrock!

Really like the 3pm PPV idea! And the banning for chucking stuff. Both top ideas!

I genuinely think you could fix it in an hour. 1. If there’s contact anywhere on the pitch, and you choose to go to ground rather than the contact taking you to ground, it’s a dive and a booking. 2. Handball rule goes back to deliberate handball only. None of this silhouette shit and players playing with their hands behind their backs. They have fundamentally changed the handball rule and it doesn’t work. 3. Immediate yellow card for any ref intimidation 4. If we have to keep VAR, use it for offsides only. Give them 15 seconds to make a decision and if they can’t, the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker like it always used to 5. Mandatory half time strippers

I think Palmer is already as good as Madison and he hasn’t hit his ceiling yet, whereas you could argue Madison is as good as he’s going to get. Palmer is also a fair bit younger and more versatile. To get a player of his quality for just £40m was always going to be great business. I doubt he’ll be on £75k per week for long.

Unless the keeper throws it into his net or has an absolute howler, it's unfair to blame them for stuff like that. They are the absolute last line of defence. He never even thinks about coming out for that if he has faith in the back 4 to get back. The fact that we have the slowest defence in the league is the cause of that goal, both physically and mentally. Saying Dubs should've done this or that is bollocks - if he had stayed on his line and Elanga still scored, people would be saying he should've come out. If you watch it again, he actually closes the chance down really well and limits Elanga's options, he just leaves his legs open to the nutmeg - if you want to criticise him for anything, it would be that and even then it would be extremely harsh. We consistently play a high line against pace, with one of the slowest defences in the league. The blame for that doesn't lie with Dubs.

There was a little interchange of passing between Livra and Barnes during one attack, that gave a real glimpse into what we’re missing with Livra sitting on the bench all the time. Such a shame.

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Yeah, that’s exactly what it is pal ?

Just the one today. I suppose we should celebrate any small improvement since he’s going to start every game here until the day he retires

Yeah, that’s nonsense. He’s up to speed a bell of a lot quicker than Burn and if necessary is in touching distance to foul him. But I don’t think it would’ve come to that because his anticipation is better than Burn’s as well. Just a totally avoidable clusterfuck!

I think you’re going be disappointed

True, but small price to pay for financial freedom for the rest of your life. And also, it's very easy to discount how much football fans know about the game of football. Just because we've never played it at professional level doesn't mean we know nothing. There are plenty of professional managers who have never played the game at senior level but have had successful careers. And some that have played at the highest level and know fuck all eg. Steve Bruce. Some lad got a professional manager job after doing well on Football Manager FFS! We’re not talking about rocket science here. Do we know how to set up a training session to best instil a style of play into a team? No. Do we know how to coach individual players to improve certain aspects of their play? Probably not. Eddie Howe 100% knows infinitely more about these things than us. Can we spot certain things that consistently aren't working tactically and personnel that aren't performing? Yes, and they are valid observations. What we generally don't take into account is maybe the manager doesn't want to drop a player to keep his morale high, maybe he wants to play him into form etc. Maybe he just has an ultimate preference for a natural left footer in left sided defensive roles or maybe he just really likes certain players as people. These are the bits we fans generally don't take into consideration, but simply discounting how much we know about the game is generalist lazy bullshit - exactly the kind of crap you’d expect to be peddled by the likes of Ray ‘party’ Parlour and other ‘I played the game, therefore I know more than you’ morons.

Getting paid £5m per year for managing a team playing the game you love. Yeah, sounds wank!

This is spot on re: the points, however, it ignores the things we witnessed with our own eyes. There were clear reasons we were 2-4 down and those reasons have been apparent in other games as well. It was to a large extent self-inflicted. You have to give credit to Luton because they executed a game plan almost perfectly. It was good management on the part of Edwards. But, regardless of the 4 points, we now have a situation where if Forest do a number on us and during that number, Dan Burn in particular has another stinker, dissenting voices will start to grow in numbers and volume. Football has never been a game where fans look at points in isolation. We examine performances in detail, whether the result is positive or otherwise. Nature of the game.

I'm assuming AndyCap and ATB's posts are sarcastic

So what's the answer? Keep playing the system even though we know it doesn't suit the current available personnel, and just accept getting battered at home by Luton? Or change the system and personnel to suit our current circumstances and give ourselves a better chance of winning with a depleted squad?

I'm definitely not condoning criticism from the stands but everyone knows football stands aren't full of Mensa-members and half of them will have had a few, so it kind of goes with the territory. People pay good money to watch the team in person and you could argue that gives them a right to voice. There is literally nothing Eddie can come out with to legitimately defend us being 2-4 down at home to relegation fodder after persisting with a setup that has blatant personnel and tactical issues. When the damage is self-inflicted and you don't heed the warnings from previous games, people will start to question your judgement and suitability.