TRon Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Derby were so shite it would have been embarassing to have won 1-0. From a managerial point of view this was an absolute disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewellander Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 given/harper beye roz cacapa enrique milner geremi faye n'zogbia owen martins against west ham, get the new boys in and shake things up I think Enrique would have been in if he was fit. I agree that Zog has to be moved to midfield, but I think that, based on tonight's performance, Taylor deserved to be out there before Rozenhal. Roz was consistently beaten, and seemed out of sorts when the pace was picked up. Even before the game, I looked at the lineup and thought that we have too many defensive midfielders, and no strong attacking midfielder. The performance proved me right. It's all good to think that Barton will be coming back soon, but we need more options (and Smith isn't one of them). In the end, though, Allardyce did bring in good defensive options, and I'm not going to jump down his throat because he couldn't bring in another attacking CM before the deadline. We should demand better, but we should also realize that Rome wasn't built in a day, and Sam is doing his best to improve the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 given/harper beye roz cacapa enrique milner geremi faye n'zogbia owen martins against west ham, get the new boys in and shake things up I think Enrique would have been in if he was fit. I agree that Zog has to be moved to midfield, but I think that, based on tonight's performance, Taylor deserved to be out there before Rozenhal. Roz was consistently beaten, and seemed out of sorts when the pace was picked up. Even before the game, I looked at the lineup and thought that we have too many defensive midfielders, and no strong attacking midfielder. The performance proved me right. It's all good to think that Barton will be coming back soon, but we need more options (and Smith isn't one of them). In the end, though, Allardyce did bring in good defensive options, and I'm not going to jump down his throat because he couldn't bring in another attacking CM before the deadline. We should demand better, but we should also realize that Rome wasn't built in a day, and Sam is doing his best to improve the squad. fair enough, taylor did play well tonight, personally though i prefer roz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SLK Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Incidentally words cannot express how angry I was that Given was not in goal tonight. Has given grown 6 arms 10 meters tall while he was away !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparta Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 wish ive never turned the telly on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SLK Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Harper 7 - Did all that could be asked of him. Have you seen the goal? Yes...Have you Given and Harper both on the pitch wouldn't have stopped that ball going in... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SLK Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 For FU*K sake Allardyce, if you don't want to play 4-4-2 at least switch to 3-5-2 instead of the shit 4-3-3...Our problem is in midfield...We are NOT bossing the midfield and creating chances either through the centre via through balls or from flanks by having PROPER wingers (Sorry SouMess, had to borrow your phrase). Harper Beye Cacapa Taylor Rozehnal Milner Smith Geremi N'Zogbia Owen Martins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaetihS Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 tbh we are are lucky to lose by 1-0. totally outplayed and outfought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 As this game was at 3am our time, I recorded it and watched this morning. This was a huge disappointment, not just from the result point of view(Miller hit a great strike out of the blue and when those go in, they look great), but from the fact that we never really created 1 real chance apart from Rozehnal's shot which should have been a goal. However, he IS a defender, and the fact that we are relying on defenders to score if forwards don't is a huge indictment of the midfielders. We all know Ameobi's limitations, and those who constantly slag off Viduka can now surely see why Allardyce wanted him - his presence up front is more worrying for defenders than Ameobi will ever be - but Viduka is not the total answer. Owen can only be really effective when he is in the box, and how often did THAT happen? Our attacks are pedestrian - when the ball is played out of defence, it is either hit long(which is hopeless for small forwards)or played in a slow laborious build-up which allows defenders to get back to cover the forwards. The midfield are slow to close up with the forwards when the ball goes into the opposition box, so the forwards are always outnumbered - the return of Barton MAY help with this, but as we all know, we lack a skilled midfield creator, and this will have a serious effect on our season as a whole. Whilst we don't look as if we will get overrun, we could(and should) have lost by 2 clear goals - Howard had a real chance with a header late on which should have been 2-0. I always wondered how we would do if we went behind, and this game gave us the answer - badly. Against a team like Arsenal(who looked by far the season's best team so far last Saturday), we would have lost heavily as they would have punished us as we tried to save the game. I reckon this game was a wake-up call for all of us - whilst we created real chances against Wigan, we did not do so in any quantity in the other matches, so this is a real concern. Consider the difference in our chance creation in this match to Villa's against Man City - Villa should have got something out of the game after creating several good chances, but we did not and that is worrying. We know we lack pace in the forwards, and that was rubbed home clearly last night. It looks as if we will struggle in games where the opposition score first, and whilst I never expected an easy win or a walk-over, we should be getting wins against these type of sides if we want European football next season. Altogether a massive let-down which highlights how much work(and money)is needed to make us anything like a real Top 5 contender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 There is nothing Harper could have done about that goal, so stop trying to find something to pin on him. If there is nothing Harper could of done for a shot from way out I think it is time to recall Shay, Harper had NO chance with the goal - it was a waste of time him trying to dive for it and he knew it - it was in the top corner, hit well & swerved. Miller should have been closed down & wasn't - end of story. Harper was not to blame for our defeat in any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 In fairness though, people preaching about knee-jerking are right. It was one of them s**** nights where, unfortunately, the opposition had to treat it like a cup final. In hindsight, a win was always unlikely, it's just unfortunate that we were too s*** to even sneak a draw. Sam'll learn a lot from this aswell and hopefully the likes of Emre and Viduka could be back soon. We'll beat West Ham. Desperate for Barton to be back more than anyone, though. Oh and Ramage. It was nailed on we were going to lose today. We ALWAYS lose these matches. If that's the case, we might as well go back to having Shepherd as Chairman and Roeder or Souness as manager - nothing like having high standards...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sittingontheball Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 SA said clean slate for everyone and I hope we'll be able to look back on games like this and think they were part of a general appraisal and shakeout of the team. I know they're real points we're playing for now, but Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm not an Allardyce fan tbh and have always been more concerned about the lack of creativity over our defensive shortcomings. Spurs conceded loads more than us last season but no-one gives Jol the "comedy defence" one. I think people are too sensitive to lazy Southern journalism on that matter. If all you've got is good defenders, you'll end up like Citeh last year. The "14 touches for Michael Owen" comment sums up the game really. Part of it was Shola, who was fkn terrible and did not link up without anyone at all. He's shown nothing at all since his operation. If that is him match fit, then he's finished. His clean slate has gone in one game! I think he needs to go in the stiffs. If the midfield can't create anything, we'll have to play Martins because he's the only one that can do it by himself. We all said Dyer lacked a best position, but what does that make Smith? For a striker playing in midfield, he does nothing going forward. As with Zog, I don't think its good to give attacking players ball-winning responsibilities. You end up with them diving in rashly and hurrying their forward play. The way the midfield has been set up so far, there is going to be a lot of pressure on Emre or Barton when they come in. Both have their limitations too. Anyway, here's hoping this is one step back to go with two steps forward. There were lots of worrying signs though and it hurts when you deservedly lose to some pumped-up fckwit of a Championship manager. Get well soon Viduka is all I can say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Haven't read any of the post match comments, been too busy and must go to work. All I can say is that FS made a shit and very scary team selection that reminds of the shite Souness put out sometimes. This is the type of "can't tsee he wood for the trees" type of team selection that has never seen me in favour of Allardyce. Ameobi shouldn't be anywhere near the first team. Taylor at right back...don't make me laugh. Smith is not a midfield player, as I've always said about him. Square pegs in round holes again. When I saw the selection my confidence just disappeared to be replaced by hope that he knew what he was doing. He didn't Once again, I hope that over the long term he proves me wrong. He's hasn't been doing badly until yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksammy Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 shit happens......... hopefully emre gets a lookin next week because he is in desperate need, dont let owen start next week even if he is "fully fit", viduka/martins or even smith martins. when playing not better teams its probably not best that we get into a longball war Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 UTTER SHITE!! Roeder may as well have been wor manager, there was no difference between performances, Sam got the starting line up bang wrong and must hold his hands up!! Starting Shola ahead of Oba and leaving a world class keeper on the bench, I am not saying Shay would have saved their goal but still you do not leave a keeper who is in the top three in the world on the bench. What is Alan Smith meant to be doing when he plays? I would say out of three of the games he has played he is lucky not to have been sent off, its s shame he is Ashleys fav player because he does fk all for us on the pitch, I would have said Geremi was one of our better players last night and Sam fkn subbed him. If Howard could finish we would have been slaughtered with the amount of chances he got, we were very poor but lets be honest lads, at point this season have we actually looked like a class side, for 45 mins in the 1st half against Bolton maybe we did but that was only down to how poor Bolton were!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Micktoon Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Guaranteed Owen will not be injured when it is time for the Estonia and Russia games..... Fuck me some people don't half talk shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Haven't read any of the posts; don't need to, saw the match & a few things were glaring: We had no pace or movement through midfield, we played in a 442 formation but most balls were played through the middle & Zog was not able to join up as a wide threat. Ameobi had a shocker, Smith had a shocker (yet stayed on & was given the armband!). BS had a shocker; it was obvious early on that we were struggling to control the game, could not get service to Owen & we were not a threat. BS could have changed to 433 or even stayed with 442 but have moved Zog up & Geremi back. I don't know why he took no action when the game was there to be won. Derby were very poor & they deserved to win. We need Viduka back; but he is starting to show his injury weakness & we need Enrique in to allow Zog into a wide left position. I'd drop Butt or Smith (probably Smith). At right back; take your pick. Taylor did ok but Beye looks a player. As for Owen; yes he got injured & didn't get the service but I'm sure Martins would have made a greater contribution. I'd put Given back in goal at the first opportunity but Harper has not done anything wrong, his distribution was good & he didn't stand a chance with the goal. Geremi has to take any blame for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkey Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 dull and depressing game... but on the plus side, Newcastle are still ahead of Middlesbrough, Sunderland and Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Spot on HTL, square pegs in round holes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross magoo Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I don't know what they do in training all week but on last night's evidence it certainly isn't ballwork. There's guys out there on £40kpw who can't even control a football. It's fucking staggering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I don't know what they do in training all week but on last night's evidence it certainly isn't ballwork. There's guys out there on £40kpw who can't even control a football. It's f****** staggering. I meant to mention; I can't remember a top flight game where a team put as many passes into touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisd09 Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Some of the passing was woeful and why the feck where Milner and Zoggy falling over all the time, change the boots. That was as poor a performance as under Roeder we were beaten to the 2nd ball almost everytime. They wanted it more than us. It was embarrasing enough anyway but it could have been worse. That Howard missed 2 very good chances with his head. Hopefully that is just one dip and we can pick ourselves up. We certainley need to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Spot on HTL, square pegs in round holes. Didn't have much choice last night, in fairness. But that's as far as I'll defend that team selection. 8 players out injured by my count, half of them probable automatic choices. Doesn't help. It's accommodating Owen in there that caused the problem, if you ask me, as we simply don't have the players for 4-4-2 at this moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Injuries can hardly be used as an excuse, we have a much stronger squad to cope with just these situatons. We could easily have played Smith alongside Owen with Milner, Butt, Geremi and Zog across the middle. That's hardly a bad side considering they were up against Derby not Man U. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Spot on HTL, square pegs in round holes. Didn't have much choice last night, in fairness. But that's as far as I'll defend that team selection. 8 players out injured by my count, half of them probable automatic choices. Doesn't help. It's accommodating Owen in there that caused the problem, if you ask me, as we simply don't have the players for 4-4-2 at this moment. He got a lot of simple things wrong. Beye on the bench and Taylor (mid contract spat) at right back....Shola ahead of Martins..Starting 2 def midfielders against a Derby side fresh from a 6-0 banging sent out the wrong signals...Zoggy had to start further up the park and one off game at left back for some other clown wouldn't have been an issue with Derby defending deep. It really ended up being just knock it to Milner and hope for the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now