midds Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 If I thought the squad had enough bottle then going to Sunderland and winning there could be a bit of a springboard. Unfortunately they're incapable of rolling up their sleeves and grinding a derby win out. I wanted this to work and I'm quite prepared to give him time to turn it around but it's looking less likely every week. There's only so much slack he can be given before big decisions need to be made. Dropped 50 big ones in the summer and we're in danger of getting cut adrift in the next month or 2, the situation could become untenable fairly soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 One thing I will say is that rejigging a side to start playing more from the back takes time (maybe that's where the 10 games comes from) and nearly always unless you are Rodgers and flip flop it produces results in the long term. This probably sounds hyper optimistic but I have seen fleeting signs of players trying to do things differently from the Pardew punts and pressing from the bad old days.... Quite a few times one of our CD's has brought the ball all the way past the half way line and played into rotating midfielders or wide to winger in space... It might not have time to work as we're all aware as games tick by and as others have mentioned McC is somewhat hamstrung by a few disenchanted players which must the nightmare of every manager. I'm not defending his other blunders but there seems to be some method to it all. Aye, but he just lost his bottle and f***ed another decision by dropping Anita for Colback Playing Colback over Anita isn't some catastrophic decision. They offer the exact same thing. they really don't EDIT: and the point is more that anita was clearly central to his 'playing from the back' style and he dropped it at the first sign of trouble for colback who simply isn't as good in that role They really do. They offer very little consistent presence and very little in the way of passing range, they're both a bit pointless. If anything, the best thing they do when they drop back is allow more space for Colo and Mbemba to distribute. The latter has more zip in his passing than Colback and Anita combined. Don't know why you completely ignore the fact Colback has absolutely no positional sense what so ever, Anita may not be great but at least he knows how to position himself unlike Colback who leaves absolutely massive gaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 One thing I will say is that rejigging a side to start playing more from the back takes time (maybe that's where the 10 games comes from) and nearly always unless you are Rodgers and flip flop it produces results in the long term. This probably sounds hyper optimistic but I have seen fleeting signs of players trying to do things differently from the Pardew punts and pressing from the bad old days.... Quite a few times one of our CD's has brought the ball all the way past the half way line and played into rotating midfielders or wide to winger in space... It might not have time to work as we're all aware as games tick by and as others have mentioned McC is somewhat hamstrung by a few disenchanted players which must the nightmare of every manager. I'm not defending his other blunders but there seems to be some method to it all. Aye, but he just lost his bottle and f***ed another decision by dropping Anita for Colback Playing Colback over Anita isn't some catastrophic decision. They offer the exact same thing. they really don't EDIT: and the point is more that anita was clearly central to his 'playing from the back' style and he dropped it at the first sign of trouble for colback who simply isn't as good in that role They really do. They offer very little consistent presence and very little in the way of passing range, they're both a bit pointless. If anything, the best thing they do when they drop back is allow more space for Colo and Mbemba to distribute. The latter has more zip in his passing than Colback and Anita combined. i disagree, anita was brought up in the ajax academy and clearly understands the role much, much better than colback...bear in mind we're talking about what parky was saying about playing out from the back, not their ability to physically dominate opponents or create in attack (which they're both shit at aye) if you think about of all the things mclaren has or has not done since coming in imo anita playing that role is the only one that might even come close to being deemed a success - to clarify again i'm talking about him dropping deep with the CB's, taking the ball, moving it on, showing for a pass...basically being asked to be the fulcrum for starting a deep possession game nothing else mclaren has tried has worked to date the fact that it makes anita a 5th defender and there's a huge gap between midfield and attack, and that the front 5 are totally disfunctional is not relevant to him playing that role well enough....the fact the role itself is probably a massive detriment to the overall team shape is another matter, but that's not anita's fault Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 One thing I will say is that rejigging a side to start playing more from the back takes time (maybe that's where the 10 games comes from) and nearly always unless you are Rodgers and flip flop it produces results in the long term. This probably sounds hyper optimistic but I have seen fleeting signs of players trying to do things differently from the Pardew punts and pressing from the bad old days.... Quite a few times one of our CD's has brought the ball all the way past the half way line and played into rotating midfielders or wide to winger in space... It might not have time to work as we're all aware as games tick by and as others have mentioned McC is somewhat hamstrung by a few disenchanted players which must the nightmare of every manager. I'm not defending his other blunders but there seems to be some method to it all. Aye, but he just lost his bottle and f***ed another decision by dropping Anita for Colback Playing Colback over Anita isn't some catastrophic decision. They offer the exact same thing. they really don't EDIT: and the point is more that anita was clearly central to his 'playing from the back' style and he dropped it at the first sign of trouble for colback who simply isn't as good in that role They really do. They offer very little consistent presence and very little in the way of passing range, they're both a bit pointless. If anything, the best thing they do when they drop back is allow more space for Colo and Mbemba to distribute. The latter has more zip in his passing than Colback and Anita combined. Don't know why you completely ignore the fact Colback has absolutely no positional sense what so ever, Anita may not be great but at least he knows how to position himself unlike Colback who leaves absolutely massive gaps. Anita is better with that, I agree, but I don't think it really makes much difference at all in our side, he still gets swatted aside/run through/run past very easily and struggles to keep up. So his better positioning is generally counteracted, hence why he's also a bit pointless. Perhaps if he had a more combative b2b next to him, things would be different, but Wijnaldum doesn't quite look that player yet and Sissoko has very little defensive appetite for the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Of course it makes a difference man, a DM who don't know how to position himself and leaves gaps for the opposition to exploit regularly is one of the most important things a DM should do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 One thing I will say is that rejigging a side to start playing more from the back takes time (maybe that's where the 10 games comes from) and nearly always unless you are Rodgers and flip flop it produces results in the long term. This probably sounds hyper optimistic but I have seen fleeting signs of players trying to do things differently from the Pardew punts and pressing from the bad old days.... Quite a few times one of our CD's has brought the ball all the way past the half way line and played into rotating midfielders or wide to winger in space... It might not have time to work as we're all aware as games tick by and as others have mentioned McC is somewhat hamstrung by a few disenchanted players which must the nightmare of every manager. I'm not defending his other blunders but there seems to be some method to it all. Aye, but he just lost his bottle and f***ed another decision by dropping Anita for Colback Playing Colback over Anita isn't some catastrophic decision. They offer the exact same thing. they really don't EDIT: and the point is more that anita was clearly central to his 'playing from the back' style and he dropped it at the first sign of trouble for colback who simply isn't as good in that role They really do. They offer very little consistent presence and very little in the way of passing range, they're both a bit pointless. If anything, the best thing they do when they drop back is allow more space for Colo and Mbemba to distribute. The latter has more zip in his passing than Colback and Anita combined. i disagree, anita was brought up in the ajax academy and clearly understands the role much, much better than colback...bear in mind we're talking about what parky was saying about playing out from the back, not their ability to physically dominate opponents or create in attack (which they're both s*** at aye) if you think about of all the things mclaren has or has not done since coming in imo anita playing that role is the only one that might even come close to being deemed a success - to clarify again i'm talking about him dropping deep with the CB's, taking the ball, moving it on, showing for a pass...basically being asked to be the fulcrum for starting a deep possession game nothing else mclaren has tried has worked to date the fact that it makes anita a 5th defender and there's a huge gap between midfield and attack, and that the front 5 are totally disfunctional is not relevant to him playing that role well enough....the fact the role itself is probably a massive detriment to the overall team shape is another matter, but that's not anita's fault If we're talking strictly about splitting the centre halves, I don't think we missed Anita much for it on Saturday. The first meaningful attack we've had from trying it this season (de Jong's chance) came without Anita on the pitch. I'd play Anita over Colback, like, my point is that one really doesn't offer much more than the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Aye he looks a good player does Mbemba. Frustrating that we're again relying on a defender to adapt to the league, but at least this one will be in the team every week. I'd put money on him being everyone's player of the season come May. Janmaat, Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Perez, De Jong, maybe Thauvin, maybe Mitrovic are also canny players that would get into plenty of sides in the division. The squad is still all over the place really but there is ability there, it just needs to be well-motivated and built on solid foundations tactically. Which is why I could see what he was doing with Anita and Colback in the middle; two steady CMs designed to build slowly from the back and provide an anchor for our attackers, breaking-up play off the ball then starting things from deep at a slow tempo. Like I say, I think it was a pretty reasonable shout from a tactical point of view but things conspired against us in those opening games and ultimately, Anita and Colback's comparable deficiencies meant it was a fruitless combination as two CMs. To be fair to McClaren - he changed it. But he could've played any eleven against Watford and the result would've been the same. They weren't up to it mentality; not even close. I don't believe he's been a million miles away with regards to the tactics, but as I keep saying, if they're gonna be this unarsed it's not gonna improve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 One thing I will say is that rejigging a side to start playing more from the back takes time (maybe that's where the 10 games comes from) and nearly always unless you are Rodgers and flip flop it produces results in the long term. This probably sounds hyper optimistic but I have seen fleeting signs of players trying to do things differently from the Pardew punts and pressing from the bad old days.... Quite a few times one of our CD's has brought the ball all the way past the half way line and played into rotating midfielders or wide to winger in space... It might not have time to work as we're all aware as games tick by and as others have mentioned McC is somewhat hamstrung by a few disenchanted players which must the nightmare of every manager. I'm not defending his other blunders but there seems to be some method to it all. Aye, but he just lost his bottle and f***ed another decision by dropping Anita for Colback Playing Colback over Anita isn't some catastrophic decision. They offer the exact same thing. they really don't EDIT: and the point is more that anita was clearly central to his 'playing from the back' style and he dropped it at the first sign of trouble for colback who simply isn't as good in that role They really do. They offer very little consistent presence and very little in the way of passing range, they're both a bit pointless. If anything, the best thing they do when they drop back is allow more space for Colo and Mbemba to distribute. The latter has more zip in his passing than Colback and Anita combined. Don't know why you completely ignore the fact Colback has absolutely no positional sense what so ever, Anita may not be great but at least he knows how to position himself unlike Colback who leaves absolutely massive gaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Of course it makes a difference man, a DM who don't know how to position himself and leaves gaps for the opposition to exploit regularly is one of the most important things a DM should do. Colback's positioning was actually OK on Saturday, tbf, better than before. I agree that the positioning for a DM that can handle himself is really important but when they're someone that gets run through so easily and struggles to get close to players (and doesn't really get any support from other midfielders), I don't think it makes much of a difference Basically, stick Anita in for Colback on Saturday and you get the same problems. Neither of those two is going to change how those goals were conceded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I like to think I'm fairly rational when it comes to footballing matters but I dunno if I'll ever get past the fact Colback scored twice against us for the Mackems and put his fingers to his lips. He hasn't done nearly enough to absolve him of those wrong-doings and I think it's that, above all, which had me wanting Anita in the side above him. Anita is better positionally and stays on his man better, but then Colback looks more adept at finding a forward pass - they're very much six and two threes. But... the Mackem stuff. Just... nah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Of course it makes a difference man, a DM who don't know how to position himself and leaves gaps for the opposition to exploit regularly is one of the most important things a DM should do. Colback's positioning was actually OK on Saturday, tbf, better than before. I agree that the positioning for a DM that can handle himself is really important but when they're someone that gets run through so easily and struggles to get close to players (and doesn't really get any support from other midfielders), I don't think it makes much of a difference Basically, stick Anita in for Colback on Saturday and you get the same problems. Neither of those two is going to change how those goals were conceded. If you want to institute a passing game from the back then choosing Colback over Anita is fucking idiotic seeing as we all agree they're both not very good DM's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Of course it makes a difference man, a DM who don't know how to position himself and leaves gaps for the opposition to exploit regularly is one of the most important things a DM should do. Colback's positioning was actually OK on Saturday, tbf, better than before. I agree that the positioning for a DM that can handle himself is really important but when they're someone that gets run through so easily and struggles to get close to players (and doesn't really get any support from other midfielders), I don't think it makes much of a difference Basically, stick Anita in for Colback on Saturday and you get the same problems. Neither of those two is going to change how those goals were conceded. If you want to institute a passing game from the back then choosing Colback over Anita is f***ing idiotic seeing as we all agree they're both not very good DM's. Why are you so hyperbolic about this, man? It'd be 'idiotic' if Colback was a much worse passer than Anita and lacked any technical ability, but he doesn't, that's about all he's good at. He's a slightly worse short passer but probably has a bit more range in him. The movements the DM needs to make are incredibly simple, they're hardly the main man in splitting the centre halves the way we try to, not when our centre backs seem to be better on the ball. Once again, Anita is the better choice but the difference between the two is marginal. Which is my original point, you're making out like playing Colback over Anita is some sort of terrible decision, when, in reality, the difference between the two is really quite small. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Once again, Anita is the better choice but the difference between the two is marginal. Which is my original point, you're making out like playing Colback over Anita is some sort of terrible decision, when, in reality, the difference between the two is really quite small. i don't think the difference in them in the DM position for the purpose of ball retention and possession are marginal though, colback is absolutely appalling at positioning, can't cover the ground as well as anita, and shows for the ball by hiding behind the opposition he's awful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Has this been posted? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/11880202/Who-is-to-blame-for-the-mess-at-Newcastle-United.html Some interesting tidbits of info from behind the scenes that explain a lot. He's woefully wrong about Ashley mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lam Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Vl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It's a decent piece. I don't agree that Carr is held to be more responsible than McClaren or that Ashley is completely absolved of blame for the current mess, but apart from the questionable end verdicts it's a good article that correctly highlights that we are a clusterfuck from top to bottom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 "Little Mike" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 "Little Mike" Aye, that tickled me too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 "Little Mike" Little Mike is utterly clueless and irrespective of the ever present Ashley factor which will always exist, we lack knowledge, drive, decisiveness and a clear plan at board level. Ashley will never appoint a proper figure to run the club meaning we'll never truly progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Charnley thread needs a title change tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Charnley thread needs a title change tbh Certainly does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Newcastle's early struggles have Steve McClaren's team nearing crisis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 6) McClaren should relocate Coloccini to a defensive midfield role Coloccini is struggling at centre-back but Newcastle have just handed their captain a new contract and, given the right framework, he can still play a bit – so why not turn him into a midfield anchor, a sort of quasi-sweeper capable of both protecting his defence and initiating attacks? With Cheick Tioté seemingly having slipped out of the picture, McClaren is worryingly light when it comes to defensive midfield options so Coloccini – who has played the role in Spain and Argentina in the past – could yet fit the bill. The promising Chancel Mbemba could then be paired with Steven Taylor (who is a really good defender, when he’s fit) at centre-half. Coloccini’s reassuring, ball-playing, presence at the base of what could possibly turn into a midfield diamond with Siem de Jong at its apex (although there are other options) should surely bring the best out of Newcastle’s attacking creators. With the Argentinean behind them, we might yet see the best of Florian Thauvin, Rolando Aarons, Georginio Wijnaldum and friends. Given Taylor’s injury record this re-configuration will necessitate signing a new centre-back in January as well as the extra striker – preferably Charlie Austin – McClaren is currently missing. Louise Taylor Might have been posted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Who wrote that? It's the kind of thing we say taking the piss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Louise Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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