TRon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Howe has been at a club from rock bottom, had several years and been able to install his own philosophy from scratch. McClaren came into a squad rock bottom confidence wise, who've had several years of poor tactics drilled into them, and is having to try and get his ideas across. I reckon once he's been in a while we'll be more than alright under him. I was reading an interview of Ritchie in the Times today and he was waxing lyrical about Howe's coaching methods. Apparently he gives all his players a booklet before each game about the opposition players and their weaknesses. I know it all sounds a bit Mourinho, but they really do play well collectively for a pretty ordinary bunch of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Yeah, so they outplayed us without all their best players. That means either we are spending money on poor players or the manager isn't putting together the right team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Why did Howe leave Burnley? Poor results? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Yeah, so they outplayed us without all their best players. That means either we are spending money on poor players or the manager isn't putting together the right team. Or we just had an off day, performance wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Why did Howe leave Burnley? Poor results? Homesick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Looking at the league table a few weeks ago I thought it would be a nightmare to get out of the bottom three it's actually been a piece of piss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I like many things he's trying to do, I'm alarmed at how poor we look at times and a ton has to be said about the recruiting and the footballing abilities seemingly drained out of these guys thanks to Pardew and Carver, but I'm just sick of giving it time where we've just now scraped out of the bottom 3 and it's November. I have the utmost respect for the coach and man that is McClaren to be honest. I can easily see he's doing his utmost to get us performing and I appreciate that. I just really don't think he's the right man for this job and I'd be happy to be proved wrong because we'd then see some moderate success. All I want is to enjoy my football again, I def am more now than the last few years but it's hard man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Howe has been at a club from rock bottom, had several years and been able to install his own philosophy from scratch. McClaren came into a squad rock bottom confidence wise, who've had several years of poor tactics drilled into them, and is having to try and get his ideas across. I reckon once he's been in a while we'll be more than alright under him. Same. Clubs like Southampton, Swansea and Bournemouth have a consistent philosophy over years and are focussed on success. McClaren has started from absolutely nothing. This is actually a really good shout. I watch us and just can't comprehend how we look like they've never met or trained together. I expect McClaren to have done something about that, especially since he was here since start of the summer to prepare. I guess it's different with comparing against sides that have taken years to establish how they play. Maybe we will get better, but today was horrible to watch. Really horrible, just shades of Pardew and Carver in a new blend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Yeah, so they outplayed us without all their best players. That means either we are spending money on poor players or the manager isn't putting together the right team. Or we just had an off day, performance wise. Like picking an unlucky lottery number maybe. Sounds about right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 We weren't all that unlucky in the other two games. Didn't create as many chances as Bournemouth did. Didn't have the opposition defence constantly looking raggedy. IMO (Sunderland, Stoke) we played like Swansea did when we beat them 2-0 under brendan. Lots of possession, probed, needed to defend well but rarely truly stretched. Toothless basically. Bournemouth had us scrambling at the back. Scrambling in midfield. No service up front. High pressure, high tempo, exciting stuff. We passed it about a bit in front of defences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Why did Howe leave Burnley? Poor results? Homesick :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Look at Leicester under Ranieri and then tell me its not the manager who makes a big difference - McClaren has got one of the most difficult jobs in the game and nobody in their right mind would work for Charnley/Ashley unless they were desperate for dosh, but I still reckon someone like Ranieri would have got the side playing better than we are. Then again, Leicester were more motivated player for player than the shambles we have last season... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Bilic has west ham doing well too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 We weren't all that unlucky in the other two games. Didn't create as many chances as Bournemouth did. Didn't have the opposition defence constantly looking raggedy. IMO (Sunderland, Stoke) we played like Swansea did when we beat them 2-0 under brendan. Lots of possession, probed, needed to defend well but rarely truly stretched. Toothless basically. Bournemouth had us scrambling at the back. Scrambling in midfield. No service up front. High pressure, high tempo, exciting stuff. We passed it about a bit in front of defences. We had about 35 shots at goal in these two games didn't we? If we were lucky yesterday due to Elliot then the same must be said for Stoke and Butland the week before where 2 or 3 were genuine top class saves and hit the inside of their post. Sunderland at 11v11 was just a matter of time before we scored and the decision to make it 10v11 was proven to be wrong by the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmattis Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I'm not impressed in any way with his tactics and substitutes during his games with us, and he was talking about us keeping the ball on the ground etc earlier in the season and we haven't seen much of that have we? And I think it is a big difference of keeping the ball on the ground to just keep the ball and doing it with an intent. The chances and possession we have kept the games "we've been playing well" has been without any killer instinct in my opinion. You never really get the feeling we completely dominate our attacks or cause any real threat to the defence when going forward. I haven't seen all games this season, but based on what I have seen compared to other games and teams I just think there's such a big difference of quality. There must be more to this team than we have seen this season, surely? Or is the squad really THAT poor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Bournemouth are fucking shite, man. We made them look like The Invincibles yesterday, we did the same to Swansea too. It was massively worrying that we couldn't get a foothold in the game at any point, you usually expect a 10-20 minute spell even in the most dire of games but we showed nothing all game. We actually managed to get progressively worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 We weren't all that unlucky in the other two games. Didn't create as many chances as Bournemouth did. Didn't have the opposition defence constantly looking raggedy. IMO (Sunderland, Stoke) we played like Swansea did when we beat them 2-0 under brendan. Lots of possession, probed, needed to defend well but rarely truly stretched. Toothless basically. Bournemouth had us scrambling at the back. Scrambling in midfield. No service up front. High pressure, high tempo, exciting stuff. We passed it about a bit in front of defences. We had about 35 shots at goal in these two games didn't we? If we were lucky yesterday due to Elliot then the same must be said for Stoke and Butland the week before where 2 or 3 were genuine top class saves and hit the inside of their post. Sunderland at 11v11 was just a matter of time before we scored and the decision to make it 10v11 was proven to be wrong by the Premier League. Aye, we did, and a higher percentage of our shots in those games actually came inside the box (50% of Bournemouth's were from range). They're a side that 'look' dangerous because they play at pace but their two really decent chances came from set pieces rather than open play. Once we accepted it wasn't our day going forward (Perez, Wijnaldum, Sissoko and Janmaat were all losing the ball really easily, like) and decided to grind it out with an extra midfielder, they were really quiet. When we played the mackems and Stoke, they got plenty of bodies behind the ball. That's always going mean a slower tempo of play from the team that are doing the majority of attacking. We went to Bournemouth and played with a pretty open shape so it was much easier for them to find spaces quicker, I didn't think they were anything special and most of the time it was just us doing ridiculously stupid things to pile more pressure onto ourselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Yeah, so they outplayed us without all their best players. That means either we are spending money on poor players or the manager isn't putting together the right team. Or we just had an off day, performance wise. Like picking an unlucky lottery number maybe. Sounds about right. None of our previous 6 performances were anything like yesterday, so it's not illogical to say it was just one of those days where not much was going well. I wouldn't be eulogising about Howe yet either, I caught Bournemouth against Villa and the mackems and they were very average, we just turned up with an open shape and players not at it and it played into their hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 They got into dangerous positions, in behind our fullbacks, able to put balls across the 6 yard box way more imo. It was down to a lack of quality, an extra touch, a poor final ball that let them down. We played tippy tappy stuff in front of the defences. We play a slow tempo which lets teams get in good defensive positions behind the ball. Also tactically Howe got our lot with ease. Seemed to target our fullbacks and got plenty of joy and knew an extra midfielder would cause unbelievable havoc against our lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Yeah, so they outplayed us without all their best players. That means either we are spending money on poor players or the manager isn't putting together the right team. Or we just had an off day, performance wise. Like picking an unlucky lottery number maybe. Sounds about right. None of our previous 6 performances were anything like yesterday, so it's not illogical to say it was just one of those days where not much was going well. I wouldn't be eulogising about Howe yet either, I caught Bournemouth against Villa and the mackems and they were very average, we just turned up with an open shape and players not at it and it played into their hands. Too open with two defensive midfield players sorry but don't agree in fact it was the total opposite because Bournemouth were able to get mass time on the ball and able to put pressure on at will because we were playing far too deep. This insistance of playing two defensive midfielders is bordering on crass mismangement as it is and has been all season totally to the detriment of the team. Yesterday was on par and in fact probably worse than anything Pardew and Carver served up and against a team in the main with Championship players. We were totally second best in all areas for 90 minutes and yet you say there were not anything special - I totally agree they're not but what does that make us after that display. Mitrovic might as well be on the bench because the amount of support and service he is getting is bordering on pathetic. You have no wingers and no creativity in midfield and it won't change with this bloke in charge - totally shociking manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The way Tiote and Anita played so deep with no pressing whatsoever we might as well have played without them. Every single time the opposition had acres om space and time. Too fucking easy! Why why why?? And the few times they had the ball they gave it away. When they were sitting that deep it was almost like "lets wait here and see what they do" I've had a decent feeling because i have seen some progress, but this to name one thing was fucking criminal. How the hell can McClaren decide that this is a good tactic? And if it wasn't his tactics then why didn't he change it/instruct otherwise straight away? It was soooo obvious from the first few minutes it wasn't working. Both of them are absolutely useless at everything. Especially one moment in the 2nd half just outside of the corner of our box where Tiote didn't even half press the player, who then played a one two around Tiote who didn't even fucking try to move, not an inch! He just moved his head around, looked and stood still before Colo managed to block a cut back with a sliding tackle. It was the most obvious pass and move ever, and he didn't even bother the disgusting useless rat. He can rot in hell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozy Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 We played shit and won. The manager acknowledges that we played shit, got relatively lucky and won. Pardew would have been calling that 'a proper away performance' or whatever. It's one game, enjoy the victory. If performances continue in that manner then we have every right to criticise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 They're a good team, we're not. If they were a good team they would have scored five today. They are a well organised, hard working championship team. I like their style, which I put down to their manager, but they don't have good players. They are missing all their best players don't forget. Wilson alone would've won it for them with his finishing. Yeah, so they outplayed us without all their best players. That means either we are spending money on poor players or the manager isn't putting together the right team. Or we just had an off day, performance wise. Like picking an unlucky lottery number maybe. Sounds about right. None of our previous 6 performances were anything like yesterday, so it's not illogical to say it was just one of those days where not much was going well. I wouldn't be eulogising about Howe yet either, I caught Bournemouth against Villa and the mackems and they were very average, we just turned up with an open shape and players not at it and it played into their hands. Too open with two defensive midfield players sorry but don't agree in fact it was the total opposite because Bournemouth were able to get mass time on the ball and able to put pressure on at will because we were playing far too deep. This insistance of playing two defensive midfielders is boardering on crass mismangement as it is and has been all season totally to the detriment of the team. Yesterday was on par and in fact probably worse than anything Pardew and Carver served up and against a team in the main with Championship players. We were totally second best in all areas for 90 minutes and yet you say there were not anything special - I totally agree they're not but what does that make us after that display. Mitrovic might as well be on the bench because the amount of support and service he is getting is bordering on pathetic. You have no wingers and no creativity in midfield and it won't change with this bloke in charge - totally shociking manager. I've been willing to back McClaren even though I knew in the back of my mind that he wasn't the right man for us, but the longer he goes on with this two defensive midfielder bullshit it's getting harder not to put our results down to bad management. It's doing none of them any favours either, I'm pretty sure either Tiote or Anita would be far more comfortable having a more dynamic midfielder ahead of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Banaloona Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The roller coaster of emotions associated with Steve McClaren are always going to be there due to the uncertainty surrounding people actually being content with his appointment. Me personally thought we were actually making progress but yesterdays performance was completely uninspiring and down right unacceptable. Today I watched Villa v Man City, and right away there seemed to be immediate signs of progression from Villa. They attacked with more purpose and players seemed to have a fantastic idea of what was required when the bull turned over (defensively). Until the club invest in a commanding centre half with the mindset to lead from the back, a equally commanding central midfield player (our midfield two, whether its Colback/Anita, Colback/Tiote, Anita/Tiote is horrendous and doesnt allow us to retain the ball consistently) then it doesnt matter who is manager we'll always see the same problems. Until that happens I am prepared to give him a chance, but at the same time its frustrating to see the lack of substantial progress in the teams development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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