Keegan on breaking into the top four, and fifth as a target next year

[Dokko]

Tapping him up, maybe its our reward for brining Smith on. 

[Luc]

It does make sense what he says. What else can he say? "With this shower of shit I need at least 15 new players next year."

[Exiled in Texas]

Breaking into the Big 4 is not something that will be accomplished in one season, even if a new team were to finish in 4th place next season.  The Big 4 have been set for several seasons now, and it would take a couple of seasons with a team finishing in 3rd/4th before they would truely be considered into the Big 4, or more likely the new Big 5.

 

It will take Arsenal or Liverpool dropping down to 6th/7th for a couple of seasons before the media will consider them out of the lead pack, and a new Top group is defined. And I think we see a Big 5 before we see a new Big 4. Neither Arsenal or Liverpool will drop that far/fast to loose their media-darling status.

 

Newcastle need to establish themselves as 5th-6th team for a couple of seasons, and then each time we will have a better foundation for the push into the Big 4.  It would be much easier for Newcastle to attract the necessary players, from a couple of back to back 5th/6th place finishes, for a realistic push into the Big 4 than trying to shoot for that from 12 place.

[STM]

Breaking into the Big 4 is not something that will be accomplished in one season, even if a new team were to finish in 4th place next season.  The Big 4 have been set for several seasons now, and it would take a couple of seasons with a team finishing in 3rd/4th before they would truely be considered into the Big 4, or more likely the new Big 5.

 

It will take Arsenal or Liverpool dropping down to 6th/7th for a couple of seasons before the media will consider them out of the lead pack, and a new Top group is defined. And I think we see a Big 5 before we see a new Big 4. Neither Arsenal or Liverpool will drop that far/fast to loose their media-darling status.

 

Newcastle need to establish themselves as 5th-6th team for a couple of seasons, and then each time we will have a better foundation for the push into the Big 4.  It would be much easier for Newcastle to attract the necessary players, from a couple of back to back 5th/6th place finishes, for a realistic push into the Big 4 than trying to shoot for that from 12 place.

 

Agree with all of this. I always go under the philosophy that we should aim higher rather than lower, thats what annoys me about his comments.

 

He know like everyone that the squad is not top 4 quality BUT that's where he should be aiming for, then when we fall short everyones still happy.

 

BTW the top four isn't a million miles away. It was only a couple of weeks ago that people were talking about Everton vying for 4th and IMO we have better players than them.

[Cheshire Mag]

Talk sport reckon KK is going to walk due to lack of funds!!!

 

Apparently he didnt even come onto the pitch after the game yesterday. I cant have been that pissed to have imagined it!!

 

Load of old shite.

[Tsunami]

Next season we need to aim to compete with Spuds, Villa, Blackburn, Everton & possibly WH (who have a decent squad decimated this season by injuries). We need players in to take us to that level, we then need to consolidate that position for a year & then kick on. There's no quick fix & the truth is that Villa & more so Spuds are quite a distance ahead of us.

 

Ambitious up & coming players will be very hard to get, god help us if we get a bunch of under achieving past it mercenaries. Wise needs to prove he's worth his salary, we need more than one rabbit out of the transfer hat.

[Tsunami]

Talk sport reckon KK is going to walk due to lack of funds!!!

 

Apparently he didnt even come onto the pitch after the game yesterday. I cant have been that pissed to have imagined it!!

 

Load of old s****.

 

Talk Sport continually talk shite about us. KK came on but walked off when the crowd were only singing his name in the hope that they would show their appreciation for the players. Oba & Stevie Harper got the next (& only other as I remember) chants.

[Cheshire Mag]

Talk sport reckon KK is going to walk due to lack of funds!!!

 

Apparently he didnt even come onto the pitch after the game yesterday. I cant have been that pissed to have imagined it!!

 

Load of old s****.

 

Talk Sport continually talk shite about us. KK came on but walked off when the crowd were only singing his name in the hope that they would show their appreciation for the players. Oba & Stevie Harper got the next (& only other as I remember) chants.

 

Nicky Butt got one aswel, half hearted though!

[SUPERTOON]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/06/ufnnew106.xml

[Parky]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/06/ufnnew106.xml

 

 

Just read that. KK needs to feel comfortable if there is stuff that needs to be cleared up imho.

 

 

 

 

Kevin Keegan to have clear-the-air talks

By Rob Stewart

Last Updated: 6:37pm BST 06/05/2008

 

 

 

The Newcastle United manager, Kevin Keegan, is set to hold what are being billed as clear-the-air talks with club chairman Chris Mort to resolve a series of issues that are hanging over St James' Park.

 

 

Keegan was on Tuesday described as unhappy about being left in the dark over the size of the club's transfer kitty which is bound to be the key item on the agenda when he meets up for detailed discussions with Mort who runs the club for billionaire owner Mike Ashley.

 

After major funds: Kevin Keegan is set to clear the air

Their talks will include the future of Michael Owen and demarcation of power at the Tyneside club where Keegan has been left in charge of first-team affairs and identification of potential players while director of football Dennis Wise spearheads their recruitment.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that Keegan is prepared to quit Newcastle but just to add to his concerns, it is understood a member of his backroom technical staff has been removed and replaced by technical co-ordinator Jeff Vetere without his say-so which has apparently gone down badly with the former England manager.

 

Confusion over transfer policy is, though, clearly becoming a source of frustration for Keegan judging by his latest comments when asked about suggestions that he would only be able to spend income on new players that outgoings generate this summer.

 

Keegan said: "I don't know. I have not been told. I don't know what is here if I am honest. That's not a problem. We will just have to wait and see. You really need to be talking to Chris Mort or Dennis Wise about the finances for this football club.

 

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"It's not my job and I have never been involved in it. That's the truth. I cannot help you on that other than saying my job is to ask Tony Jimenez (vice-president, player recruitment) to go and get players.

 

"I give them a player and they go and try and get him for us. I am saying that whatever finance will be there, it will not be enough to take us into the top four."

 

Keegan said he had a responsibility to be realistic with supporters and "tell them I am not going to get enough money to make major changes".

 

"I know that already," he added. "I do know that much. Major changes take massive finance and it's not massive finance. I'm not depressed. I'm just being realistic. The fans know that. They are very knowledgeable. If I have said anything that has offended them I would be surprised. They are thinking, 'How much money is there?'"

 

Keegan continued: "If someone said there would be £40 million or £50 million it still would not be enough to get you from where we are. We do not need as big a squad as Chelsea because we have not got Champions League football.

 

"We are not going to do it in my time in three years. We are just not going to do that. We cannot make that leap. What I can do is get this club higher up the table. I believe I can do that. Fifth place is our League championship."

 

Keegan voiced his concerns about the club's inability to challenge the top four following a 2-0 defeat by Chelsea on Monday. Speaking ahead of the Chelsea game, Mort, who is expected to give his manager re-assurances over the future, defended the club's re-structuring that saw Keegan followed into the club by Wise, Jimenez and Vetere.

 

In his programme notes, Mort, who pointed out that Ashley had ploughed £100 million into the club since his acquisition a year ago to avert "serious financial difficulties", stated: "We have put in place a structure which should help put the club in a position of strength and stability for the long-term.

 

"Dennis Wise and his recruitment team have been busy seeking out the best footballing talent across the country, elsewhere in Europe and further afield and we will see some of the benefits of those efforts this summer.

 

"In addition to strengthening the first-team squad we will also continue to recruit younger players for the future to ensure the club is built on more stable foundations for the long-term."

 

[Martin Lol]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/05/06/ufnnew106.xml

 

 

Just read that. KK needs to feel comfortable if there is stuff that needs to be cleared up imho.

 

 

 

 

Kevin Keegan to have clear-the-air talks

By Rob Stewart

Last Updated: 6:37pm BST 06/05/2008

 

 

 

The Newcastle United manager, Kevin Keegan, is set to hold what are being billed as clear-the-air talks with club chairman Chris Mort to resolve a series of issues that are hanging over St James' Park.

 

 

Keegan was on Tuesday described as unhappy about being left in the dark over the size of the club's transfer kitty which is bound to be the key item on the agenda when he meets up for detailed discussions with Mort who runs the club for billionaire owner Mike Ashley.

 

After major funds: Kevin Keegan is set to clear the air

Their talks will include the future of Michael Owen and demarcation of power at the Tyneside club where Keegan has been left in charge of first-team affairs and identification of potential players while director of football Dennis Wise spearheads their recruitment.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that Keegan is prepared to quit Newcastle but just to add to his concerns, it is understood a member of his backroom technical staff has been removed and replaced by technical co-ordinator Jeff Vetere without his say-so which has apparently gone down badly with the former England manager.

 

Confusion over transfer policy is, though, clearly becoming a source of frustration for Keegan judging by his latest comments when asked about suggestions that he would only be able to spend income on new players that outgoings generate this summer.

 

Keegan said: "I don't know. I have not been told. I don't know what is here if I am honest. That's not a problem. We will just have to wait and see. You really need to be talking to Chris Mort or Dennis Wise about the finances for this football club.

 

advertisement

 

"It's not my job and I have never been involved in it. That's the truth. I cannot help you on that other than saying my job is to ask Tony Jimenez (vice-president, player recruitment) to go and get players.

 

"I give them a player and they go and try and get him for us. I am saying that whatever finance will be there, it will not be enough to take us into the top four."

 

Keegan said he had a responsibility to be realistic with supporters and "tell them I am not going to get enough money to make major changes".

 

"I know that already," he added. "I do know that much. Major changes take massive finance and it's not massive finance. I'm not depressed. I'm just being realistic. The fans know that. They are very knowledgeable. If I have said anything that has offended them I would be surprised. They are thinking, 'How much money is there?'"

 

Keegan continued: "If someone said there would be £40 million or £50 million it still would not be enough to get you from where we are. We do not need as big a squad as Chelsea because we have not got Champions League football.

 

"We are not going to do it in my time in three years. We are just not going to do that. We cannot make that leap. What I can do is get this club higher up the table. I believe I can do that. Fifth place is our League championship."

 

Keegan voiced his concerns about the club's inability to challenge the top four following a 2-0 defeat by Chelsea on Monday. Speaking ahead of the Chelsea game, Mort, who is expected to give his manager re-assurances over the future, defended the club's re-structuring that saw Keegan followed into the club by Wise, Jimenez and Vetere.

 

In his programme notes, Mort, who pointed out that Ashley had ploughed £100 million into the club since his acquisition a year ago to avert "serious financial difficulties", stated: "We have put in place a structure which should help put the club in a position of strength and stability for the long-term.

 

"Dennis Wise and his recruitment team have been busy seeking out the best footballing talent across the country, elsewhere in Europe and further afield and we will see some of the benefits of those efforts this summer.

 

"In addition to strengthening the first-team squad we will also continue to recruit younger players for the future to ensure the club is built on more stable foundations for the long-term."

 

 

 

I've got a lot of sympathy for KK tbh.  He's always tried to be totally honest with the fans (his chat on the steps of SJP when Andy Cole left immediately springs to mind), but I'm not convinced that his colleagues at the top are being equally open and honest with KK.  KK says that he can't get close to the top 4 at the present time (totally honest), Chris Mort says that Newcastle offered more as a transfer fee and wages to both Modric and Woodgate than Spurs (unbelievably naive to admit that in public) and Dennis Wise appears to me  not to be saying much at all.

 

I think the poorest revelation though is that one of KK's backroom technical staff has been removed and replaced by technical co-ordinator Jeff Vetere without KK's say-so and, by implication, knowledge.  One of the most important criteria when there is a DoF/Head Coach system in place is for everyone to be singing from the same hymn sheet, at least publicly.  If it is true, for Vetere to remove and replace someone recruited by KK without KK's knowledge or agreement, really does beggar belief. 

 

I'm not surprised that KK would wish to have clear-the-air talks in those circumstances.  I think he needs to remind Vetere, Mort etc that they should all be working for the good of NUFC and I would guess that the press will start to suggest otherwise, the Telegraph piece is already hinting at that.  It needs to be sorted out quickly because if the press can get a 'Toon in turmoil' bandwagon rolling, there may well be real reluctance from players you want to make the move to SJP.

[Wullie]

Incredibly pitiful for a statement of facts to have stirred up this amount of controversy.

 

Love how the media love to tell us how many "delusions of grandeur" we have then when KK tells it how it is, they're the ones getting their knickers in a twist about it - as if it's come as a fucking surprise to them. If he'd said "top four next year", Martin "2-0 and you fucked it up" Samuel and Rod "left his wife for a young 'un" Liddle would have the poison pen out before you could say "Martins skins Tainio, it's 4-1 and the greatest manager on the planet has been shat on".

[madras]

Incredibly pitiful for a statement of facts to have stirred up this amount of controversy.

true but how often in your life do you tell the facts ?

[Cronky]

Incredibly pitiful for a statement of facts to have stirred up this amount of controversy.

true but how often in your life do you tell the facts ?

 

And a bit ingenuous that Keegan's comments were just 'a statement of facts'. I think he was putting pressure on the Board to cough up more money, which is not unusual for him, looking back at his career. Trouble is, he's made the club look disunited and lacking in ambition, which is hardly likely to attract up and coming players.

 

Is it a statement of facts to say that there's no way that we can break into the top four during the next three years, which is what he said? No, it's an opinion, and a bloody silly one as well. He's now saying that it's his target to finish fifth, but what player of any ability dreams of finishing fifth? Do you suppose that's the message that Ramos gave to Woodgate or Modric?

[Dave]

What's the message he gave to Kaboul?

[Tooj]

What's the message he gave to Kaboul?

 

"You're shiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt, ahhhhhhhhhh."

[biggs]

Incredibly pitiful for a statement of facts to have stirred up this amount of controversy.

true but how often in your life do you tell the facts ?

 

And a bit ingenuous that Keegan's comments were just 'a statement of facts'. I think he was putting pressure on the Board to cough up more money, which is not unusual for him, looking back at his career. Trouble is, he's made the club look disunited and lacking in ambition, which is hardly likely to attract up and coming players.

 

Is it a statement of facts to say that there's no way that we can break into the top four during the next three years, which is what he said? No, it's an opinion, and a bloody silly one as well. He's now saying that it's his target to finish fifth, but what player of any ability dreams of finishing fifth? Do you suppose that's the message that Ramos gave to Woodgate or Modric?

Agree with you totally .Had an argument at work about KK comments and i do think it sends out the wrong message even though its not far from the truth ,KK must sell the dream to the players he is targetting (shit forgot its not his job anymore) and make them believe in what he is after.Thats one thing that KK football manager mk2 i am a little concerned about his general bubbly we can do anything beat anyone attitude seems to be diminished and realism has taken over and that is not what he should be saying.I dont think we will break into the top 4 but Everton nearly did so it is achievable with a lot of hard work ,self belief and a bit of luck .

[Guest toonlass]

Can I just check something here. From the Sky Sports interview what I got was a manager who was pissed off after being beaten by a side who for about 50 minutes looked no better than we were. He then spoke about how hard it is to break into the big four, and basically said that it didn't matter how much we spend, because they have similar, if not more, spending power and a bigger attraction for the high class players. He stated that the gulf between the big four is massive, which is true. He also stated that he would be getting 2-3 players (we all know this could be more). So what the hell is the problem here. We have known for long enough that all of this is true. So why the media hoo-haa? Why are fans getting all panicky? Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

[NG32]

Can I just check something here. From the Sky Sports interview what I got was a manager who was pissed off after being beaten by a side who for about 50 minutes looked no better than we were. He then spoke about how hard it is to break into the big four, and basically said that it didn't matter how much we spend, because they have similar, if not more, spending power and a bigger attraction for the high class players. He stated that the gulf between the big four is massive, which is true. He also stated that he would be getting 2-3 players (we all know this could be more). So what the hell is the problem here. We have known for long enough that all of this is true. So why the media hoo-haa? Why are fans getting all panicky? Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

 

I cant see a problem with it either.

 

 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Can I just check something here. From the Sky Sports interview what I got was a manager who was pissed off after being beaten by a side who for about 50 minutes looked no better than we were. He then spoke about how hard it is to break into the big four, and basically said that it didn't matter how much we spend, because they have similar, if not more, spending power and a bigger attraction for the high class players. He stated that the gulf between the big four is massive, which is true. He also stated that he would be getting 2-3 players (we all know this could be more). So what the hell is the problem here. We have known for long enough that all of this is true. So why the media hoo-haa? Why are fans getting all panicky? Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

my thoughts exactly.

[Cronky]

Can I just check something here. From the Sky Sports interview what I got was a manager who was pissed off after being beaten by a side who for about 50 minutes looked no better than we were. He then spoke about how hard it is to break into the big four, and basically said that it didn't matter how much we spend, because they have similar, if not more, spending power and a bigger attraction for the high class players. He stated that the gulf between the big four is massive, which is true. He also stated that he would be getting 2-3 players (we all know this could be more). So what the hell is the problem here. We have known for long enough that all of this is true. So why the media hoo-haa? Why are fans getting all panicky? Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

my thoughts exactly.

 

Except he didn't say how hard it was to break into the top four. He said it was impossible.

 

My partner, who otherwise takes no interest in football at all, heard the interview on the radio and asked me what the hell Keegan thought he was doing, giving out such a negative message to his players and any that might want to join him.

 

It just sounds to me like Keegan is having to come to terms with the fact that he won't be able to spend his way to success like we did before. It needs a more patient, long-term approach, and that's what the new set-up is about. Moaning that Chelsea and Man U are snaffling up the big names at the moment is pointless.

 

[Baggio]

Incredibly pitiful for a statement of facts to have stirred up this amount of controversy.

true but how often in your life do you tell the facts ?

 

And a bit ingenuous that Keegan's comments were just 'a statement of facts'. I think he was putting pressure on the Board to cough up more money, which is not unusual for him, looking back at his career. Trouble is, he's made the club look disunited and lacking in ambition, which is hardly likely to attract up and coming players.

 

Is it a statement of facts to say that there's no way that we can break into the top four during the next three years, which is what he said? No, it's an opinion, and a bloody silly one as well. He's now saying that it's his target to finish fifth, but what player of any ability dreams of finishing fifth? Do you suppose that's the message that Ramos gave to Woodgate or Modric?

Agree with you totally .Had an argument at work about KK comments and i do think it sends out the wrong message even though its not far from the truth ,KK must sell the dream to the players he is targetting (shit forgot its not his job anymore) and make them believe in what he is after.Thats one thing that KK football manager mk2 i am a little concerned about his general bubbly we can do anything beat anyone attitude seems to be diminished and realism has taken over and that is not what he should be saying.I dont think we will break into the top 4 but Everton nearly did so it is achievable with a lot of hard work ,self belief and a bit of luck .

 

I agree with the pair of you.

 

People have spoken about how the club should be targeting the likes of Bentley, well would he be interested in signing for a manager who's said the best he can achieve is 5th?! Of course he wouldn't, he's better off staying at Blackburn if our manager doesn't have any belief in moving the club back up.

[Elliottman]

Can I just check something here. From the Sky Sports interview what I got was a manager who was pissed off after being beaten by a side who for about 50 minutes looked no better than we were. He then spoke about how hard it is to break into the big four, and basically said that it didn't matter how much we spend, because they have similar, if not more, spending power and a bigger attraction for the high class players. He stated that the gulf between the big four is massive, which is true. He also stated that he would be getting 2-3 players (we all know this could be more). So what the hell is the problem here. We have known for long enough that all of this is true. So why the media hoo-haa? Why are fans getting all panicky? Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

my thoughts exactly.

 

Except he didn't say how hard it was to break into the top four. He said it was impossible.

 

My partner, who otherwise takes no interest in football at all, heard the interview on the radio and asked me what the hell Keegan thought he was doing, giving out such a negative message to his players and any that might want to join him.

 

It just sounds to me like Keegan is having to come to terms with the fact that he won't be able to spend his way to success like we did before. It needs a more patient, long-term approach, and that's what the new set-up is about. Moaning that Chelsea and Man U are snaffling up the big names at the moment is pointless.

 

 

The odd season you might get a team breaking the top 4 i.e Everton a couple of years back. To do it year after year and actually break the term "top 4" would be incredibly difficult, maybe not impossible, but i cant see it being done for a long long time.

[Cronky]

Can I just check something here. From the Sky Sports interview what I got was a manager who was pissed off after being beaten by a side who for about 50 minutes looked no better than we were. He then spoke about how hard it is to break into the big four, and basically said that it didn't matter how much we spend, because they have similar, if not more, spending power and a bigger attraction for the high class players. He stated that the gulf between the big four is massive, which is true. He also stated that he would be getting 2-3 players (we all know this could be more). So what the hell is the problem here. We have known for long enough that all of this is true. So why the media hoo-haa? Why are fans getting all panicky? Jesus talk about making a mountain out of a molehill....

my thoughts exactly.

 

Except he didn't say how hard it was to break into the top four. He said it was impossible.

 

My partner, who otherwise takes no interest in football at all, heard the interview on the radio and asked me what the hell Keegan thought he was doing, giving out such a negative message to his players and any that might want to join him.

 

It just sounds to me like Keegan is having to come to terms with the fact that he won't be able to spend his way to success like we did before. It needs a more patient, long-term approach, and that's what the new set-up is about. Moaning that Chelsea and Man U are snaffling up the big names at the moment is pointless.

 

 

The odd season you might get a team breaking the top 4 i.e Everton a couple of years back. To do it year after year and actually break the term "top 4" would be incredibly difficult, maybe not impossible, but i cant see it being done for a long long time.

 

When Everton broke into the top four, they lacked the finance to move things forward and take advantage. Sir Bob had the same problem. This time, I'm convinced it would be different.

 

 

[Consortium of one]

Don't know if anyone posted this link yet:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=564438&in_page_id=1779

 

But this article is particularly troubling and seems to point to a serious disconnect btween Keegan and pretty much every else in the club's back room.

 

I'm feeling a little troubled right now and can't help but feel that this will not end well.  I hope it's just a bit of indigestion rather than a premonition.