Pablo Aimar joins Benfica

[mrmojorisin75]

nobody.. now stop the crap

 

well, I've news for you.

 

More crap?

 

Shepherd and Cushing went to do the deal. See 3rd link. All that way to back the manager for a player he wanted and get him before others. And cut an agent out too. FAncy that eh 

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20001007/ai_n14349875

 

http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2000/10/4/190390.html

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2000/oct/10/newsstory.sport2

 

Benfica flew a delegation out when they heard we were in the running. That was it..game over. MA has to come to terms with the fact that we will initially have to pay over the odds in wages for good players. Later when we are more competitive is the time to attract them with other reasons.

 

Well put

 

 

 

VERY well put, yes

[sicsfingeredmong]

Got to love NE5. A couple of nights ago we were lacking ambition for signing Aimar, now we've got no ambition because we didn't sign him.

 

so which is it NE5?

 

I'm not a fence sitter myself, but it appears you're swinging your views back and forth as it suits. Please clarify if you've got the time. Thanks

 

its quite simple. We failed to sign a player the manager wanted, and in this case, he wasn't even first choice.

 

 

 

well, let's assume KK wanted Aimar, and agreed with Wise and co to go for him. We put in a bid, which was accepted by all "press" accounts. Let's also say that said club and player had other offers on the table. Doesn't said player then get to choose which club he wants to play for? naturally factoring in his own ambition, the club's ambition, wages, european football, city, climate etc...etc...

 

what if the player really did turn us down in favour of Benfica? why does that automatically indicate failure on our part? he's south american remember, and has been a relatively big name charlie for a few yrs now. There may be several reasons why he would choose Benfica over us, and none of them have to be automatically due to our club failing at boardroom/Wise level.

 

just the same way you accuse people of having an agenda against the old board, you clearly use every chance you get to criticize the new board, even when factual information is scarce and all that's available is unsubstantiated drivel written up by some 2 bit journo.

 

 

 

the club are missing out on managers targets for not showing ambition/having the setup to persuade them to come/not being urgent enough to go and get them, whatever the reason, and making noises about putting in place a policy that I basically think is the wrong way to get among the top clubs and you think they shouldn't be criticised ?

 

You bet your arse I'll criticise mate, and whats more its justified as well.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

It was only 7 years ago - ie. the Summer leading into the 01/02 campaign - that we were able to poach Robert from under the nose of Barcelona, despite the club undergoing, or going through a rebuilding/transitional phase similar to Keegan's current predicament. With regards to the the points i have underlined the Shepherd deserves his plaudits: 1. prepared to pay the going rate/personal terms. 2. They got in early & threw some decisive punches, before Barcelona completed the same decisive blows

 

and 3. Robson at that stage was fully utilised in the negotiation process - to my recollection Robert had a telephone conversation with Wenger also, or somebody at Arsenal anyway, and that played a part in sealing the deal, but nonetheless we were effectively in the ballpark. Admittedly though, and this is a fault on the part of the previous board's part, SBR became more of a peripheral figure in this 'negotiating process' later on, or left in the dark as Robson has previously put it or 'underutilised' as KK currently is. Even so we still would've secured Rooney's signature, if it hadn't been for United reconfiguring their finances in order to accomodate Rooney's transfer a year ahead of their planned schedule. At the time we were butting heads with United in the transfer market, and previously by backing the manager's judgment we outpunched AC Milan - and other interested Serie A suitors - in the race for Viana, Robert has already been mentioned, and we got in early and secured Jenas & payed the going rate for Jenas when a cashed-up Leeds were sniffing around............... that's a good looking CV for a supposedly shitehouse chairman re-Shepherd.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sicsfingeredmong]

Keegan needs to be there selling the club to new signings. I don't trust Wise etc to sell the club half as much as I do Kev. His passion is legendary and it rubs off on those around him. Get him in a room with a potential recruit and I think more often than not they'd end up at Newcastle.

 

Completely agree

 

This has been banged on about by a few here, and deservedly so............. but dissenting voices from those who harbor doubts pertaining to the current front-office set-up haven't exactly been well received.

[sicsfingeredmong]

Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it?

 

Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe.  Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need!

 

Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit.

 

With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor.

 

 

 

 

[Guest MaetihS]

got a feeling that Wise& Co and MA are not in tune in negotiating transfer deals besides the core reason that we are no longer a "big club" or "club on the up" but still it seems when we have competition for realistic targets, we lose out. We sign Spidey and Danny without any concrete competition.Than again it is only a few failed negotiations....          maybe the board think we are Real Madrid where players will walk on glass to play for us.

[Guest elbee909]

Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it?

 

Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe.  Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need!

 

Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit.

 

With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor.

 

 

There's a difference between partly needed - which it is, of course, you have to pay the better players more than the lesser ones, on the whole - and it being a wider solution to our current predicament.  Adding players we're prepared to go the extra mile for, no problem with that, but sometimes we won't land them, regardless of the money - when more of the other clubs can offer similar wages now.  And if a player's already loaded, then the wages again won't be the be all and end all.

[Guest elbee909]

got a feeling that Wise& Co and MA are not in tune in negotiating transfer deals besides the core reason that we are no longer a "big club" or "club on the up" but still it seems when we have competition for realistic targets, we lose out. We sign Spidey and Danny without any concrete competition.Than again it is only a few failed negotiations....           maybe the board think we are Real Madrid where players will walk on glass to play for us.

 

[sicsfingeredmong]

Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it?

 

Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe.  Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need!

 

Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit.

 

With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor.

 

 

There's a difference between partly needed - which it is, of course, you have to pay the better players more than the lesser ones, on the whole - and it being a wider solution to our current predicament.  Adding players we're prepared to go the extra mile for, no problem with that, but sometimes we won't land them, regardless of the money - when more of the other clubs can offer similar wages now.  And if a player's already loaded, then the wages again won't be the be all and end all.

 

When a key area in the team has been identified such as the 'creative playmaker' role, which i think is the case at the moment if our failed pursuits of Modric and Aimar are to go by, the club has to go the extra mile in order to address it. Just as we did in the case of Robert, when the club/team was sitting mid-table, and was in desperate need for a creative impact player, a difference maker.

 

In the cases of both players the front office have failed: they allowed to Spurs to get in first/we ultimately tried to hijack the deal by offering better money when Spurs had probably sold a winning 'football related sales pitch' and as i've cited previously, and you're welcome to disagree with it, their winning pitch was put forward by sales team - ie. led by Levy - who have been in the caper of running a club's football front office longer than our corresponding heirachy.

 

In the case of Aimar we allowed a Portugese club to get the better of us, whereas we should be able offer more in the way of 'financial clout' when pitted against a club from a league whose top teams are often 'feeder/seller clubs' for Europe's top echelon.

 

 

[Dave]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

[Tsunami]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

So you don't think we were in for him? We got egg on our face with Modric and Woodgate after it was announced they were on the way & we confirmed we were in for them. I certainly would be announcing we had bollocks upped again. And, perhaps more than once (Inler for instance).

[johnnypd]

i doubt we were ever after him, benfica were probably waffling about inquiring/negotiating about prices and zaragoza or an agent took advantage of or created rumours to propel them into action.

[Guest elbee909]

I think we need to have a day long moratorium on our incessant commenting on speculation, and the first person who breaks it has to buy everyone else a pint.

[mrmojorisin75]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

Dave man.  What I find irritating at the moment is you can only have a wider opinion about things these days if something is "proven" to be true.  What the guys sics is saying stands up outside of an individual example with or without evidence we bid for the guy.  Why not try debating what he's actually talking about?

 

I remember before the window opened myself and TT (I think) were listing the positives of making an early impact signing and were just countered with "the windows not even open yet man" or "only 2 clubs have signed anyone".  That is not the nature of argument and discussion.

 

Some of us at the moment have a belief that when it comes to negotiations the club are either inept, have no understanding of the game, or are simply unwilling to "go the extra mile" to complete a deal for the QUALITY players we all know we need.

 

I'm not basing that on Aimar.  I'm basing that on Spiderman and Guthrie.  And Modric and Woodgate.

[madras]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

Dave man.  What I find irritating at the moment is you can only have a wider opinion about things these days if something is "proven" to be true.  What the guys sics is saying stands up outside of an individual example with or without evidence we bid for the guy.  Why not try debating what he's actually talking about?

 

I remember before the window opened myself and TT (I think) were listing the positives of making an early impact signing and were just countered with "the windows not even open yet man" or "only 2 clubs have signed anyone".  That is not the nature of argument and discussion.

 

Some of us at the moment have a belief that when it comes to negotiations the club are either inept, have no understanding of the game, or are simply unwilling to "go the extra mile" to complete a deal for the QUALITY players we all know we need.

 

I'm not basing that on Aimar.  I'm basing that on Spiderman and Guthrie.  And Modric and Woodgate.

really you are basing it on aimar alone as in both the latter cases it's reported that we offered more than the places they ended up.

[Guest neesy111]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

Dave man.  What I find irritating at the moment is you can only have a wider opinion about things these days if something is "proven" to be true.  What the guys sics is saying stands up outside of an individual example with or without evidence we bid for the guy.  Why not try debating what he's actually talking about?

 

I remember before the window opened myself and TT (I think) were listing the positives of making an early impact signing and were just countered with "the windows not even open yet man" or "only 2 clubs have signed anyone".  That is not the nature of argument and discussion.

 

Some of us at the moment have a belief that when it comes to negotiations the club are either inept, have no understanding of the game, or are simply unwilling to "go the extra mile" to complete a deal for the QUALITY players we all know we need.

 

I'm not basing that on Aimar.  I'm basing that on Spiderman and Guthrie.  And Modric and Woodgate.

 

but you don't know what was going on behind the scenes

 

woodgate already agreed to sign for spurs if you remember, and modric joined spurs as his brothers get 20% of the fee (smells something like anelka transfers)

 

and the players we did sign the papers knew not one bit about

 

so i would agree with dave

 

we still ain't been named as the club, and aimar has said he ONLY ever wanted to join benfica

[mrmojorisin75]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

Dave man.  What I find irritating at the moment is you can only have a wider opinion about things these days if something is "proven" to be true.  What the guys sics is saying stands up outside of an individual example with or without evidence we bid for the guy.  Why not try debating what he's actually talking about?

 

I remember before the window opened myself and TT (I think) were listing the positives of making an early impact signing and were just countered with "the windows not even open yet man" or "only 2 clubs have signed anyone".  That is not the nature of argument and discussion.

 

Some of us at the moment have a belief that when it comes to negotiations the club are either inept, have no understanding of the game, or are simply unwilling to "go the extra mile" to complete a deal for the QUALITY players we all know we need.

 

I'm not basing that on Aimar.  I'm basing that on Spiderman and Guthrie.  And Modric and Woodgate.

really you are basing it on aimar alone as in both the latter cases it's reported that we offered more than the places they ended up.

 

sorry like but if you can't read i'm not going to teach you, don't have time

 

same for neesy111

 

[madras]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

Dave man.  What I find irritating at the moment is you can only have a wider opinion about things these days if something is "proven" to be true.  What the guys sics is saying stands up outside of an individual example with or without evidence we bid for the guy.  Why not try debating what he's actually talking about?

 

I remember before the window opened myself and TT (I think) were listing the positives of making an early impact signing and were just countered with "the windows not even open yet man" or "only 2 clubs have signed anyone".  That is not the nature of argument and discussion.

 

Some of us at the moment have a belief that when it comes to negotiations the club are either inept, have no understanding of the game, or are simply unwilling to "go the extra mile" to complete a deal for the QUALITY players we all know we need.

 

I'm not basing that on Aimar.  I'm basing that on Spiderman and Guthrie.  And Modric and Woodgate.

really you are basing it on aimar alone as in both the latter cases it's reported that we offered more than the places they ended up.

 

sorry like but if you can't read i'm not going to teach you, don't have time

 

same for neesy111

 

i don't want to learn to read if it only leads to gossip,hearsay..................or you.

[mrmojorisin75]

..if we were ever in for Aimar.

 

Just because the papers keep saying it doesn't make it any more factual.

 

Dave man.  What I find irritating at the moment is you can only have a wider opinion about things these days if something is "proven" to be true.  What the guys sics is saying stands up outside of an individual example with or without evidence we bid for the guy.  Why not try debating what he's actually talking about?

 

I remember before the window opened myself and TT (I think) were listing the positives of making an early impact signing and were just countered with "the windows not even open yet man" or "only 2 clubs have signed anyone".  That is not the nature of argument and discussion.

 

Some of us at the moment have a belief that when it comes to negotiations the club are either inept, have no understanding of the game, or are simply unwilling to "go the extra mile" to complete a deal for the QUALITY players we all know we need.

 

I'm not basing that on Aimar.  I'm basing that on Spiderman and Guthrie.  And Modric and Woodgate.

really you are basing it on aimar alone as in both the latter cases it's reported that we offered more than the places they ended up.

 

sorry like but if you can't read i'm not going to teach you, don't have time

 

same for neesy111

 

i don't want to learn to read if it only leads to gossip,hearsay..................or you.

aw, you'll hurt my feelings if you're not careful

[BONTEMPI]

Ok the papers didn't know anything regards to Jonas but that's because it was easier to keep quiet because another club was not involved in the deal.

 

Gutthrie was linked 2-3 days before he actually signed

[stozo]

Ok the papers didn't know anything regards to Jonas but that's because it was easier to keep quiet because another club was not involved in the deal.

 

Gutthrie was linked 2-3 days before he actually signed

Get your facts right. The first mention of a Guthrie deal came at about Midday on Friday when the Liverpool Echo reported a bid had been accepted then the deal was announced as official by 8pm that night by us.

 

Also another club was involved in the Gutierrez deal because he had to hand in his notice to Mallorca several days after the season finished.

[Dave]

I just find it annoying that there's mountains of proof (not just with our club, see the 120+ players Villa have been linked with so far) the media haven't got a clue about who we're going for, and yet as soon as a player comes up that most people would like, all that goes out of the window. He doesn't arrive here, so it's just another thing to bash the club about, even though there's nothing but the words of said clueless media that we were actually interested in the player at all.

 

People just change their minds about what's true and what's not true just to back up their overall agenda. Like NE5 and his 'clueless London journos' stuff when they criticise Shepherd, but taking their words as gospel when they claim Ashley is cutting costs.

 

It's just a load of fucking bollocks. Everyone agrees we need players (the best players we can get), even Steve Harper can see that. So to assume the club don't is crazy.

 

I'm confident that they're working their hardest to bring good players here, for whatever reason things haven't been all that quick up to now. If things are the same when the window closes then fine, but why moan now? Just makes us look daft.

 

Ashley apparently coughed up large wages for Smith, Viduka, Barton etc last summer, but now they have their own man in charge they won't back him with the required wages? Makes no sense; as I say, people just pick and choose what they believe so it fits their overall point.

 

This has turned into a rant so I'm not going to reply again, fuck it.

[Guest icemanblue]

Well said. 

[Guest neesy111]

I just find it annoying that there's mountains of proof (not just with our club, see the 120+ players Villa have been linked with so far) the media haven't got a clue about who we're going for, and yet as soon as a player comes up that most people would like, all that goes out of the window. He doesn't arrive here, so it's just another thing to bash the club about, even though there's nothing but the words of said clueless media that we were actually interested in the player at all.

 

People just change their minds about what's true and what's not true just to back up their overall agenda. Like NE5 and his 'clueless London journos' stuff when they criticise Shepherd, but taking their words as gospel when they claim Ashley is cutting costs.

 

It's just a load of fucking bollocks. Everyone agrees we need players (the best players we can get), even Steve Harper can see that. So to assume the club don't is crazy.

 

I'm confident that they're working their hardest to bring good players here, for whatever reason things haven't been all that quick up to now. If things are the same when the window closes then fine, but why moan now? Just makes us look daft.

 

Ashley apparently coughed up large wages for Smith, Viduka, Barton etc last summer, but now they have their own man in charge they won't back him with the required wages? Makes no sense; as I say, people just pick and choose what they believe so it fits their overall point.

 

This has turned into a rant so I'm not going to reply again, fuck it.

 

totally agree

[WhatTheFunk]

I just find it annoying that there's mountains of proof (not just with our club, see the 120+ players Villa have been linked with so far) the media haven't got a clue about who we're going for, and yet as soon as a player comes up that most people would like, all that goes out of the window. He doesn't arrive here, so it's just another thing to bash the club about, even though there's nothing but the words of said clueless media that we were actually interested in the player at all.

 

People just change their minds about what's true and what's not true just to back up their overall agenda. Like NE5 and his 'clueless London journos' stuff when they criticise Shepherd, but taking their words as gospel when they claim Ashley is cutting costs.

 

It's just a load of f***ing bollocks. Everyone agrees we need players (the best players we can get), even Steve Harper can see that. So to assume the club don't is crazy.

 

I'm confident that they're working their hardest to bring good players here, for whatever reason things haven't been all that quick up to now. If things are the same when the window closes then fine, but why moan now? Just makes us look daft.

 

Ashley apparently coughed up large wages for Smith, Viduka, Barton etc last summer, but now they have their own man in charge they won't back him with the required wages? Makes no sense; as I say, people just pick and choose what they believe so it fits their overall point.

 

This has turned into a rant so I'm not going to reply again, f*** it.

 

Spot on Dave

 

It's not exactly rocket science that we have thread bare squad that needs major beefing up. I'm also quite sure KK and the 3 stooges would want to bring in the best players possible. If anyone thinks they do not realize we need good players, and if anyone thinks we're actually actively pursuing average players as a policy, then they need to pull their finger out.

 

Q for NE5: I'm in no way comparing us to Wigan as a football club overall. But I have a question for NE5. Do you sir think that Dave Whelan was taking a progressive ambitious step in bidding to take Owen there (as had been reported), or do you see it as a failure on his part to sell the club to a high profile player like Owen?

[Slugsy]

Crazy thread, I take it there has been no confirmed bids from us in the first place? Even if we did bid it is hardly surprising he wants to play in the champions league is it?

 

Apparently though, we should just throw more and more wages at them because we're not in Europe.  Overpaid mercenaries, that's what we need!

 

Well that was partly needed to secure Robert wasn't it, and that was a pivotal signing which played major part in converting us from being just a pedestrian mid-table team into a top-4 calibre outfit.

 

With this in mind i have no objection with that/policy, and Parky was spot on with his post which deals with this very issue ie. sealing the deal for a player when we don't have European football to offer as a selling pitch, when we face competition from a European-qualified suitor.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, completely agree - if we ever want to get back into the upper regions of this league, we are going to have to pay over the odds as Wise and co are not going to win over players by their sunny disposition on its own.  Once you get back into that position, you can then start negotaiting harder on wages etc and are a more attractive proposition for players but lets be honest, a high profile player is only going to come here for cash at present - mercenary or not.