ChezGiven Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Nobody in their right mind could argue that we've been anything better than mediocre since Shepherd sacked Bobby. Compared to what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 and NE5 were you confident that shepherd would have took us back to champs league and top 4 finishes ? i don't know, they did it once didn;t they ? are you confident that Ashley will ? Was that a yes or a no? are you renewing your season ticket Ozzie lad , and did you have one anyway ? A yes or no will do ? Did you have one when the club really was mediocre. A yes or no will do ? Yeah, we've renewed. Yes, we had our season tickets through Shepherd's last three managerial appointments. no, I said when we were mediocre Ozzie lad. Not while playing in europe. Did you have one when we were mediocre, a simple yes or no will do. Not for me to get involved in this discussion but I would just comment that being in europe didnt make us a good team. We were still pretty mediocre on the whole but somehow muddled through. Papered over a whole lot of cracks saying "we were in europe". That it all. very good point....like saying we reached those two FA cupo finals because we were a top team. Are you seriously proposing changing the way we judge success? So if the team plays brilliantly and wins nothing, thats a success is it? Think carefully.... nothing of the sort.....i dont think cup success proves you are a good team and the latter uefa appearances were hardly earned...ie through the intertoto or because the cup winners had already qualified for europe. Great, that means we can propose any system we want to define success. This should be interesting... it's been discussed at length on here before and i've always took the line that i'd rather finish 4th in the prem than win the FA cup. i can think of poor teams in the past who have won the cup...i can't remember the last time the league champs werent the best team that year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 and NE5 were you confident that shepherd would have took us back to champs league and top 4 finishes ? i don't know, they did it once didn;t they ? are you confident that Ashley will ? Was that a yes or a no? are you renewing your season ticket Ozzie lad , and did you have one anyway ? A yes or no will do ? Did you have one when the club really was mediocre. A yes or no will do ? Yeah, we've renewed. Yes, we had our season tickets through Shepherd's last three managerial appointments. no, I said when we were mediocre Ozzie lad. Not while playing in europe. Did you have one when we were mediocre, a simple yes or no will do. Not for me to get involved in this discussion but I would just comment that being in europe didnt make us a good team. We were still pretty mediocre on the whole but somehow muddled through. Papered over a whole lot of cracks saying "we were in europe". That it all. very good point....like saying we reached those two FA cupo finals because we were a top team. Are you seriously proposing changing the way we judge success? So if the team plays brilliantly and wins nothing, thats a success is it? Think carefully.... The comment wasnt made about "success". The inferrence was that because we were in Europe during the latter stages of the Shepherd era, we were a good team (or not mediocre) and just dont think that we were a good team. "Plays brilliantly and wins nothing"..... so Keegans first term as manager wasnt successful ? oh god... can.. worms... everywhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 and NE5 were you confident that shepherd would have took us back to champs league and top 4 finishes ? i don't know, they did it once didn;t they ? are you confident that Ashley will ? Was that a yes or a no? are you renewing your season ticket Ozzie lad , and did you have one anyway ? A yes or no will do ? Did you have one when the club really was mediocre. A yes or no will do ? Yeah, we've renewed. Yes, we had our season tickets through Shepherd's last three managerial appointments. no, I said when we were mediocre Ozzie lad. Not while playing in europe. Did you have one when we were mediocre, a simple yes or no will do. Not for me to get involved in this discussion but I would just comment that being in europe didnt make us a good team. We were still pretty mediocre on the whole but somehow muddled through. Papered over a whole lot of cracks saying "we were in europe". That it all. very good point....like saying we reached those two FA cupo finals because we were a top team. Are you seriously proposing changing the way we judge success? So if the team plays brilliantly and wins nothing, thats a success is it? Think carefully.... nothing of the sort.....i dont think cup success proves you are a good team and the latter uefa appearances were hardly earned...ie through the intertoto or because the cup winners had already qualified for europe. Great, that means we can propose any system we want to define success. This should be interesting... it's been discussed at length on here before and i've always took the line that i'd rather finish 4th in the prem than win the FA cup. i can think of poor teams in the past who have won the cup...i can't remember the last time the league champs werent the best team that year. I would take either of them atm but winning a trophy for me is something I would like to see more than anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Compared to what? This is just a guess but probably compared to when Bobby was here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 and NE5 were you confident that shepherd would have took us back to champs league and top 4 finishes ? i don't know, they did it once didn;t they ? are you confident that Ashley will ? Was that a yes or a no? are you renewing your season ticket Ozzie lad , and did you have one anyway ? A yes or no will do ? Did you have one when the club really was mediocre. A yes or no will do ? Yeah, we've renewed. Yes, we had our season tickets through Shepherd's last three managerial appointments. no, I said when we were mediocre Ozzie lad. Not while playing in europe. Did you have one when we were mediocre, a simple yes or no will do. Not for me to get involved in this discussion but I would just comment that being in europe didnt make us a good team. We were still pretty mediocre on the whole but somehow muddled through. Papered over a whole lot of cracks saying "we were in europe". That it all. very good point....like saying we reached those two FA cupo finals because we were a top team. Are you seriously proposing changing the way we judge success? So if the team plays brilliantly and wins nothing, thats a success is it? Think carefully.... nothing of the sort.....i dont think cup success proves you are a good team and the latter uefa appearances were hardly earned...ie through the intertoto or because the cup winners had already qualified for europe. Great, that means we can propose any system we want to define success. This should be interesting... it's been discussed at length on here before and i've always took the line that i'd rather finish 4th in the prem than win the FA cup. i can think of poor teams in the past who have won the cup...i can't remember the last time the league champs werent the best team that year. I would take either of them atm but winning a trophy for me is something I would like to see more than anything. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't turn it down,doing both would be nice but finishing 4th means you are good,champs league money (hopefully),players wanting to join and much better prospects Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 and NE5 were you confident that shepherd would have took us back to champs league and top 4 finishes ? i don't know, they did it once didn;t they ? are you confident that Ashley will ? no i'm not confident of a return to the champs league but i have more confidence in ashleytaking us forward than i had in shepherd those last 3 years. So what exactly happened to Shepherd in those last 3 years to make him different from the chairman who proved he was capable of doing just that 8 years ago? What has Ashley actually done to give you that confidence that he will be better at overseeing the club than Hall & Shepherd? For me we haven't had enough time or seen enough action from Ashley to say either way, but I just do not understand where this belief from most and seeming certainty from others that he will do better than H&S has come from. He's employed people like Wise & Vetere, but noone really knows exactly what their roles are, so I don't see how that can even be seen as a change let alone a step forward if a DoF structure floats your boat - they could just be a high profile academy manager and scout for all we know. We don't know what the clubs transfer or wage policy is, we don't know what he's planning to do with all the extra revenue the club is pulling in from increased TV revenues and 3 years worth of season ticket money from what seems to be a significant number of supporters; he might put it back into the club, or he might just put it in his back pocket. He's not even come out with any confidence raising words other than generic "want to take the club back where it belongs" kind of stuff that all owners & chairmen come out with. At this point we know f*** all about what he might do, all we have to go on is the fact that apart from sacking Allardyce and bringing in Keegan mid season, he hasn't actually done anything of significance yet in 1 year of ownership (taking on the debt is no more significant than an extra £3m a year in income). The only reasons I can think of for this kind of confidence are either baseless optimism, or that a dislike of the old board has blinded people to their achievements. Achievements which now apparently seem to be way beyond what Ashley could possibly be expected to attain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. millwall in the uefa cup not so long......were they a good team ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Cardiff were 90 minutes from being in Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Kind of yes. I just dont think the Souness/Roeder team that got into Europe is a side that is going to go down in memory as one of our greats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Cardiff were 90 minutes from being in Europe. thought they got in as man utd went into the champs league edit...they did and got beat 4-2 on agg by ferencvaros. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I would take either of them atm but winning a trophy for me is something I would like to see more than anything. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't turn it down,doing both would be nice but finishing 4th means you are good,champs league money (hopefully),players wanting to join and much better prospects As good as the money would be, I would still prefer a day of the glory being ours, the parade round town would mean more to me as fan. Maybe not for the club or the long term prospects but just for a day we would be the winners. The emotion of cup football is far greater & has more impact than most league placings bar 1st & 17th if you have been in the bottom 3 for about 37 games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Fuck off the lot of you's. As if you can compare us being in europe to Millwall and Cardiff. Desperate to make a shit point tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I would take either of them atm but winning a trophy for me is something I would like to see more than anything. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't turn it down,doing both would be nice but finishing 4th means you are good,champs league money (hopefully),players wanting to join and much better prospects As good as the money would be, I would still prefer a day of the glory being ours, the parade round town would mean more to me as fan. Maybe not for the club or the long term prospects but just for a day we would be the winners. The emotion of cup football is far greater & has more impact than most league placings bar 1st & 17th if you have been in the bottom 3 for about 37 games. i understand what you mean but i'm more pragmatic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I would take either of them atm but winning a trophy for me is something I would like to see more than anything. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't turn it down,doing both would be nice but finishing 4th means you are good,champs league money (hopefully),players wanting to join and much better prospects As good as the money would be, I would still prefer a day of the glory being ours, the parade round town would mean more to me as fan. Maybe not for the club or the long term prospects but just for a day we would be the winners. The emotion of cup football is far greater & has more impact than most league placings bar 1st & 17th if you have been in the bottom 3 for about 37 games. i understand what you mean but i'm more pragmatic. I understand what you mean but i'm more raw emotion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Cardiff were 90 minutes from being in Europe. thought they got in as man utd went into the champs league edit...they did and got beat 4-2 on agg by ferencvaros. aye...i was still on about millwall (or mi'wa as the locals call it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Fuck off the lot of you's. As if you can compare us being in europe to Millwall and Cardiff. Desperate to make a shit point tbh. To be fair most of the above is a direct response to that. So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 f*** off the lot of you's. As if you can compare us being in europe to Millwall and Cardiff. Desperate to make a s*** point tbh. i'd compare us to when fulham were in the intertoto a few years back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Kind of yes. I just dont think the Souness/Roeder team that got into Europe is a side that is going to go down in memory as one of our greats. I was in a random bar last night in Paris, some lad starts talking, asks where i am from, i answer and he explodes into passion about a night in Marseille in 2004. The lad was for OM tbf but it still shows our class and achievement. We were on the wrong end of things of course.... Am i meant to forget who was chairman at the time for the sake of it...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Kind of yes. I just dont think the Souness/Roeder team that got into Europe is a side that is going to go down in memory as one of our greats. I was in a random bar last night in Paris, some lad starts talking, asks where i am from, i answer and he explodes into passion about a night in Marseille in 2004. The lad was for OM tbf but it still shows our class and achievement. We were on the wrong end of things of course.... Am i meant to forget who was chairman at the time for the sake of it...? nobody mentioned the chairman...he was chairman when we went in the champs league and we were a good team then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 f*** off the lot of you's. As if you can compare us being in europe to Millwall and Cardiff. Desperate to make a s*** point tbh. Aye, massive diffrence between qualifying via the league and by a cup competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Fuck off the lot of you's. As if you can compare us being in europe to Millwall and Cardiff. Desperate to make a shit point tbh. To be fair most of the above is a direct response to that. So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? Are we just talking about a certain part of our history here? Does getting into Europe in one year mean something different in another year? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Kind of yes. I just dont think the Souness/Roeder team that got into Europe is a side that is going to go down in memory as one of our greats. I was in a random bar last night in Paris, some lad starts talking, asks where i am from, i answer and he explodes into passion about a night in Marseille in 2004. The lad was for OM tbf but it still shows our class and achievement. We were on the wrong end of things of course.... Am i meant to forget who was chairman at the time for the sake of it...? nobody mentioned the chairman...he was chairman when we went in the champs league and we were a good team then. Isnt that the sub-text? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 So people are arguing that being in Europe didnt make us a good team? I'm either deleting my account or joining Simon Jordan in Marbella. Kind of yes. I just dont think the Souness/Roeder team that got into Europe is a side that is going to go down in memory as one of our greats. I was in a random bar last night in Paris, some lad starts talking, asks where i am from, i answer and he explodes into passion about a night in Marseille in 2004. The lad was for OM tbf but it still shows our class and achievement. We were on the wrong end of things of course.... Am i meant to forget who was chairman at the time for the sake of it...? nobody mentioned the chairman...he was chairman when we went in the champs league and we were a good team then. Isnt that the sub-text? no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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