The Prophet Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Hard to judge Grant as a manager, he inherited an amazing squad and its hard for me to look past that fact. Most people could do well with the squad he had at Chelsea. He didnt really seem to have an overiding influence or presence at Chelsea after Mourihno left which leads me to believe that he isnt as good a manager as people would have me believe - howeverat this point in time we are in no position to be picky. Id take him - i still think there are better candidates out there though. Think your being a bit harsh on grant there. People keep harping on about his Chelsea days but you've got to remember he's been a manager since 1980-odd. He turneed Hapoel Tikva from minows into title contenders, breaking the dominance the Maccabi clubs had on the Israeli league. He later managed both of the Maccabi clubs with a fair bit of success. People will judge him on his short spell with Chelsea but its worth noting the man has put a hell of a lot into Israeli football. so? it means nowt Aye, twenty-odd years in professional football management counts for nothing. I'm pretty sure there are other managers in other random European minnow leagues who have 20 odd years in football management (say in norway, sweden, cyprus, poland, bulgaria, etc...) Why go for someone who's done it in Israel and not someone who's been managing for quite some time say in Holland or Germany or France? Would you take Christian Gross as manager for example? What about Jacques Santini? Guy Roux maybe? I love it when an argument gets blown out of all proportion. I wasn't saying just because he has a good record in Israel we should appoint him. I was simply saying it is worth pointing out he has that experience in his favour. Fair enough. But so do Barry Fry, Bryan Robson, Terry Venables, Tony Pulis and Joe Kinnear! Just to clarify, it's not ONLY Grant's record that puts me off him, it's also his zero personality. He would not be able to handle the club in the state it's in. Exactly, of course there is better out there, but how are we supposed to attract better at this very moment in time? I'd take Grant over Kinnear every day of the week. It really depends whether Grant is in it for the short or long term in my opinion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Hard to judge Grant as a manager, he inherited an amazing squad and its hard for me to look past that fact. Most people could do well with the squad he had at Chelsea. He didnt really seem to have an overiding influence or presence at Chelsea after Mourihno left which leads me to believe that he isnt as good a manager as people would have me believe - howeverat this point in time we are in no position to be picky. Id take him - i still think there are better candidates out there though. Think your being a bit harsh on grant there. People keep harping on about his Chelsea days but you've got to remember he's been a manager since 1980-odd. He turneed Hapoel Tikva from minows into title contenders, breaking the dominance the Maccabi clubs had on the Israeli league. He later managed both of the Maccabi clubs with a fair bit of success. People will judge him on his short spell with Chelsea but its worth noting the man has put a hell of a lot into Israeli football. Not saying he's a shit manager, merely hinting at the idea that id prefer others and that he's not AS good as people would have me believe, we could appoint a 1000 managers who've turned minnow clubs into contender around the world unfortunately it doesnt count for much in the best league in the world. I'll judge him on what he did achieve on these shores and what i did see, which unforuntaely wasnt as impressive as maybe it should or could of been. Had he imprnted his identity on the club, and dramatically changed the line up or the way they played and policy at the club like Scolari has done then maybe he'd get his dues (not pun intended) but for me, it just lacked something which gives me my doubts. Having said all that, i'd still take him, like i would 15 minutes ago, but i think there are bettermanagers out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 The thing is, we're simply in no position to appoint a permanent manager at the moment, imo anywayIf we gave Avram Grant a three-year contract, and he had a shaky start... the new owners might very well want rid. They might want rid regardless! That would mean another transfer window wasted, and another £3m wasted on paying off another manager. Not to mention the further turmoil the players would go through with another managerial transition. All this not hiring because we may be sold is just f***ing s****. The people buying Newcastle will have meaga wonga they wont be chewed about the odd the £3 million if for by the small chance they don't like the current gaffer. The only fuckers who will bullet Grant on day one are pissed off Arabs if they takeover. Seriously short-sighted. It'd be very dangerous appointing a permanent manager before we're sold. In one respect... the new owners do chuck him straight away. We're £3m out and the players have gone through more turmoil with another manager change. And we're a greater laughing stock, too. On the other hand... they've promised to stick by him from the word go, and given him significant funds to build his own squad. But oh wait, a few months down the line, we're in a bad run and the owners get itchy feet cos he isn't their man. Bang... not only are we £3m down, but we're another £50m and a whole f***ing squad down cos they stuck by him for a while - before deciding: "actually, nah". We can't go employing full-time managers at the moment, it's far, far too risky. What a load of codswallop. Mike Ashley, Lambrini & Dennis need to appoint the best the manager they can find as they are the current owners & commander in chief, they should not be fannying round because someone/somewhere who may buy the club may not like the man they appoint as gaffer. Tell me which takeovers have happened & as a result of the takeover (not results) the manager has got sacked purely on a the takeover happening? I am talking about bloke getting sacked within a month of a takeover. Are you even reading what i'm saying ffs? I've bolded part of my post. It happened with Allardyce and it'll happen with Hughes. As soon as they hit a poxy run it'll add up quite nicely and the new owners won't hesitate to pull the trigger on someone they never employed. And considering Ashley wants the best outcome for the club in the future, he'll appreciate the massive risks involved appointing someone long-term now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Grant would be a pointless appointment because he wouldn't represent a major step forward and removing Kinnear now would only cause further instability which is the last thing those players need. As for Grant the manager there is nothing whatsoever on his CV that suggests he could improve an average side to any real degree to justify replacing Kinnear with him at this moment in time. Indeed I see no need whatsoever to even be looking at Grant either for now or should we be sold later. He's not a firefighter nor a builder. In fact he's more of an interim/caretaker manager actually, and we have one of those... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Do you see any better candidates? Wouldn't shit the bed if he came. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Would have him here. Think he'd do alright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Grant would be a pointless appointment because he wouldn't represent a major step forward and removing Kinnear now would only cause further instability which is the last thing those players need. As for Grant the manager there is nothing whatsoever on his CV that suggests he could improve an average side to any real degree to justify replacing Kinnear with him at this moment in time. Indeed I see no need whatsoever to even be looking at Grant either for now or should we be sold later. He's not a firefighter nor a builder. In fact he's more of an interim/caretaker manager actually, and we have one of those... If Grant would say yes to an interim job then i'd take him as soon yesterday. Aye, we've 'already got one', but he's terrible. I seriously doubt he would though, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 The thing is, we're simply in no position to appoint a permanent manager at the moment, imo anywayIf we gave Avram Grant a three-year contract, and he had a shaky start... the new owners might very well want rid. They might want rid regardless! That would mean another transfer window wasted, and another £3m wasted on paying off another manager. Not to mention the further turmoil the players would go through with another managerial transition. All this not hiring because we may be sold is just f***ing s****. The people buying Newcastle will have meaga wonga they wont be chewed about the odd the £3 million if for by the small chance they don't like the current gaffer. The only fuckers who will bullet Grant on day one are pissed off Arabs if they takeover. Seriously short-sighted. It'd be very dangerous appointing a permanent manager before we're sold. In one respect... the new owners do chuck him straight away. We're £3m out and the players have gone through more turmoil with another manager change. And we're a greater laughing stock, too. On the other hand... they've promised to stick by him from the word go, and given him significant funds to build his own squad. But oh wait, a few months down the line, we're in a bad run and the owners get itchy feet cos he isn't their man. Bang... not only are we £3m down, but we're another £50m and a whole f***ing squad down cos they stuck by him for a while - before deciding: "actually, nah". We can't go employing full-time managers at the moment, it's far, far too risky. What a load of codswallop. Mike Ashley, Lambrini & Dennis need to appoint the best the manager they can find as they are the current owners & commander in chief, they should not be fannying round because someone/somewhere who may buy the club may not like the man they appoint as gaffer. Tell me which takeovers have happened & as a result of the takeover (not results) the manager has got sacked purely on a the takeover happening? I am talking about bloke getting sacked within a month of a takeover. Are you even reading what i'm saying ffs? I've bolded part of my post. It happened with Allardyce and it'll happen with Hughes. As soon as they hit a poxy run it'll add up quite nicely and the new owners won't hesitate to pull the trigger on someone they never employed. And considering Ashley wants the best outcome for the club in the future, he'll appreciate the massive risks involved appointing someone long-term now. Allardyce was sacked on results/performances. He obliviously doesn't want what is best as that would be appointing a manager & dealing with player contracts now instead of fannying around for something which is looking less likely by the day the sale of NUFC. I can see why the spineless bastard is not trying to appoint a full time manager after his failure to get Harry (who screwed him over at the last minute) & Venners giving him the knock back after offering him such a woeful deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Kinnear is the absolute worst man. The amount of people who'd sooner leave him where he is than appoint Grant is laughable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Would have him here. Think he'd do alright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 HTT is absolutely right, grant would make us stand still, which actually means we would be going backwards, as everyone else would be improving. I'm sure Grant is a smashing fella, very polite but nothimg at all suggests he is what we need Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Kinnear is the absolute worst man. The amount of people who'd sooner leave him where he is than appoint Grant is laughable The problem is Kinnears temp Avram wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 so what? I have no problem with Grant being offered a long term contract. And he's obviously prepared to manage with the prospect of ownership change looming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Avram Grant would be worse than Kinnear. He wouldn't change anything substantially and he definitely wouldn't inspire our pathetically weak minded squad, who I couldn't see getting behind him. Really couldn't see the fans in general backing him either, especially if he struggles initially. Would be an absolutely disastrous appointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 he'd pick the best players for one, he'd have Taylor, Butt and Duff nowhere near the first 11. He wouldn't be coming out with such embarrassing arse licking shit in the press Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 he'd pick the best players for one, he'd have Taylor, Butt and Duff nowhere near the first 11. He wouldn't be coming out with such embarrassing arse licking s*** in the press Right, I'm sure he'd play our Brazilian international and former Lyon captain instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 he'd pick the best players for one, he'd have Taylor, Butt and Duff nowhere near the first 11. He wouldn't be coming out with such embarrassing arse licking shit in the press Unfortunately you have absolutely no way of knowing that he would leave those 3 out of the first team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Well they could all declare involvment with Al Qaeda and still be on Kinnear's teamsheet. The Duff and Butt situation is becoming ridiculous. Grant's in a different league to JFK man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 he'd pick the best players for one, he'd have Taylor, Butt and Duff nowhere near the first 11. He wouldn't be coming out with such embarrassing arse licking s*** in the press Haway man Ronny get over your Taylor thing, I know your hurting that Cacapa was poor last week but were all hurting because we lost man. Taylor & Butt are part of our best XI atm that is the way things are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Grant would be a pointless appointment because he wouldn't represent a major step forward and removing Kinnear now would only cause further instability which is the last thing those players need. As for Grant the manager there is nothing whatsoever on his CV that suggests he could improve an average side to any real degree to justify replacing Kinnear with him at this moment in time. Indeed I see no need whatsoever to even be looking at Grant either for now or should we be sold later. He's not a firefighter nor a builder. In fact he's more of an interim/caretaker manager actually, and we have one of those... If Grant would say yes to an interim job then i'd take him as soon yesterday. Aye, we've 'already got one', but he's terrible. I seriously doubt he would though, like. Kinnear is a s**** manager whatever the job title is but if he was removed and replaced by Grant to do the same temp job I can't see any good coming from it whatsoever and I think those players would to a man just about say f*** it and give up entirely on their responsibilities and to be honest I wouldn't blame any of them because it would just be utter madness. And even if they didn't results wouldn't exactly improve a great deal. This team is average and Grant has f*** all on his CV that says he can produce miracles. Under Kinnear or Grant or whoever realistic really, what we are seeing now i.e. 2 steps forward, 1 back, would still be the trend - all the way to the end of the season. Fingers crossed we can actually stay up. The only real way out of this is for the club to be sold and a new full-time appointment brought in with money to buy players in january or for Ashley to put the for sale sign down, hold his hands up, get rid of wise and co and appoint a proper manager and give that manager some money. Neither seems likely to happen any time soon so in short we are fucked and at the mercy of Joe Fucking Kinnear. Thanks Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 because of our woefully inadequate squad in terms of CB's, you have half a case for Taylor although I rate Bassong a hell of a lot more. as for Butt? haway man yasel, he's a fucking shambolic excuse for a midfielder. Geremi and Guthrie are a lot more effective there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 because of our woefully inadequate squad in terms of CB's, you have half a case for Taylor although I rate Bassong a hell of a lot more. as for Butt? haway man yasel, he's a f***ing shambolic excuse for a midfielder. Geremi and Guthrie are a lot more effective there I am not sure about Danny G but Gezza maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Grant would be a pointless appointment because he wouldn't represent a major step forward and removing Kinnear now would only cause further instability which is the last thing those players need. As for Grant the manager there is nothing whatsoever on his CV that suggests he could improve an average side to any real degree to justify replacing Kinnear with him at this moment in time. Indeed I see no need whatsoever to even be looking at Grant either for now or should we be sold later. He's not a firefighter nor a builder. In fact he's more of an interim/caretaker manager actually, and we have one of those... is exactly what I'm saying! wow HTT we agree for once!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 'Nowt on his CV' is a load of toss, like. Premier League runners-up, Carling Cup runners-Up, Champions League runners-up. All in one season? Aye, there's not a trophy there but it's hardly nowt like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Do you see any better candidates? Wouldn't s*** the bed if he came. I've shit the bed thinking about him here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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