Unbelievable Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I don't know if we'd ever be able to sell him for a profit at 15 million. He's clearly shown he's got issues with his confidence and can't face being away from home. I also doubt any club with more than 15 million to spend (the top 6) are ever going to want Andy Carroll anyway. Liverpool were fantastically stupid to spend that amount of cash on him, but they were desperate. I find this a really strange assumption, considering it's happened before. If Carroll manages to recapture the form that made Spurs sniff around and Liverpool bid more than double that (at Liverpool, with us or on loan at any other club) he will be in demand and could easily fetch upwards of 20 million again at some point. He's only 23 and brings very specific attributes to the table not many other players do. Even top 6 teams sometimes could do with somebody in his mould. I'd go as far as saying that some top 6 clubs might well be considering putting an offer in now he's available at a cut down price. If Harry hadn't been sacked at Spurs they would almost certainly be on the phone to Liverpool right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 "It’s simple, really. Sometimes transfers are done at corporate level." Why say that? What does that mean? the business people at the club would be dealing with it. nothing suspicious in that, is there?? Business people at the club are dealing with this but in other transfers Pards himself has been on the phone to the other clubs chairman? Its so obviously normal that every transfer is negotiated bewteen chairman, so I dont see why he'd be referring to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think Pardew is being very coy simply because we've just seen Rodgers destroy an asset, cut his price in half overnight with a few daft comments. Pardew when asked about the transfer he has simply passed the buck, don't ask me, I'm not dealing with that part of the transfer, therefore not giving anything away and allow those who do the business end of the deals get on with it; Two people the press will never get to speak to until they want to speak to them. Nothing to see here basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 "It’s simple, really. Sometimes transfers are done at corporate level." Why say that? What does that mean? the business people at the club would be dealing with it. nothing suspicious in that, is there?? Business people at the club are dealing with this but in other transfers Pards himself has been on the phone to the other clubs chairman? Its so obviously normal that every transfer is negotiated bewteen chairman, so I dont see why he'd be referring to that. He mentioned it once but that was on or near deadline day, wasn't it? In that case, it's not unusual considering the window deadline was approaching and also this practice of enquiring directly to fellow managers is a kind of short-cut to take when time is tight. What on earth do you expect him to do in Germany anyway? There's little he could do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 "It’s simple, really. Sometimes transfers are done at corporate level." Why say that? What does that mean? the business people at the club would be dealing with it. nothing suspicious in that, is there?? Business people at the club are dealing with this but in other transfers Pards himself has been on the phone to the other clubs chairman? Its so obviously normal that every transfer is negotiated bewteen chairman, so I dont see why he'd be referring to that. Fairly obvious isn't it? He was probably asked for an update on the status of negotiations and said he can't comment as he's not involved, but the people at the corporate level are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 "It’s simple, really. Sometimes transfers are done at corporate level." Why say that? What does that mean? Errr, because its true??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Really wish we were being heavily linked with Hoilett or Moses, or someone of that ilk that could play as a wide forward, but possibly through the middle as well. As it stands, we have Ba and Cisse, with Shola as back up for the central role and fairly limited options to play wide in a 4-3-3. Obertan, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Jonas, then the young uns/unproven players. Out of all of those listed, HBA is realistically going to be the only regular starter in a front three. Jonas did so well in the middle of a 4-2-3-1 last season and I'm not sure he'd be effective as a wide forward. Obertan has shown fuck all so far. Marveaux will probably miss a lot of games through injury. It then leaves players like Sammy and Amalfitano. Dreading the thought of signing Carroll, back to a 4-4-2, playing it long, not looking after the ball and bypassing quality like HBA, Cabaye, Jonas, Cisse etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hoilett's having a medical at QPR today I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Maul Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Everyone's proper doom and gloom now all of a sudden, fucking schizophrenic bastards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Fuckin' Hell. Bit manic in here isn't it... What's with all the worry about the deal being done at board level? It's money, wages and contractual shit, I'm glad Pards is taking a back seat, it's pre-season. If Pardew didn't want Carroll, Ashley wouldn't be bidding for him, simple as. If Ashley comes back saying 'I'm not paying them that, try someone else' then fair enough. If he comes back saying 'Fackin' dan it! Cants', then pards will be happy I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Everyone's proper doom and gloom now all of a sudden, fucking schizophrenic bastards What, as opposed to the past two days when nearly everyone was moaning about signing him at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksammy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I honestly think this was a cheeky loan bid which has been blown out of proportion. Liverpool would have been the ones who initially leaked this to the press. We countered by confirming the bid to unsettle Andy. We would all like to see big Andy back. However it should defiantly not be for the inflated price created by Liverpool's error in judgement. A fair amount in my honest opinion is 5-7 million with additional payments paid for goals scored, appearances and league position. The overall transfer amount should aim to be around 8-10 million pounds, maximum. My reasoning for this is that it was obvious we are in the market for a striker. It appears that DeJong was at the top of that list. My take is that he was about 3rd on a list of 5 not including Carroll. We offered 12 million, and most likely a 4-5 yr contract at 35-40k with bonuses and a wage increase on games played. This is what we deemed as the maximum amount we were willing to pay for the guy at the top of our list. Assuming Carroll will be looking for at least 50k-60k over a five year period. DeJong: 12m transfer + 10m contract (5yrs, 40,000p/w) + 2m agent fees = 24m over 5 years Carroll: 8.5m transfer + 13m contract (5yrs, 50,000p/w) + 2.5m agent fees = 24m over 5 years Purely looking at the figures (as described by Pardew later), even at that the lower end of the spectrum it seems like a poor deal before additional payments are factored in. I know my figures are very pie in the sky however I have tried to be as realistic as I feel possible. I do think Carroll will take a home town pay cut but it will be for a longer term perhaps. But ask yourself what did we pay to get our "world class striker" from Germany? Our "Carroll replacement". Cisse: 8m transfer + 14.3 contract (5.5 yrs x 50,000) + 1m agent fees = 24.3 over 5.5 years Is Andy Carroll really as good as Cisse, furthermore is Carroll worth as much as Cisse? I know we bought him at a discount rate and he has truly excelled in this league. But the proposed commitment that is being bandied about is scary. Sure worst come to worst we would receive the 8 million pound fee for Carroll to Wham or Stoke (Good luck him accepting the contract this time however). But I honestly think we are missing a trick. If we have circa 24 million to spend on one player (contract, transfer, agent) we should be looking for another, more flexible target. Even if we signed Carroll, gave him his number 9, set our team tactics to suit his strengths and gave him all the confidence in the world. We MAY have a long term "world class" player. But no-one will be silly enough to ever pay 15m+ for Andy Carroll (except for a sugar-daddy club). Just because Andy is now considered "world class" would we realistically have a "world class" team supporting him and winning trophie(s)? I realistically doubt it. If we were to take Carroll back it would purely be an attempt to either get a world class player on the cheap or to resell him for what would be considered the biggest scam since the Ponzi scheme during the global financial crisis. As a club we should be thinking how can we most easily and furthermore most cost effectively win football games and furthermore trophies. Signing Andy Carroll for the amount of money speculated is everything against what our club has strived to achieve since relegation. By resigning Krul, Jonas and Colo I truly sensed a successful chapter in the club had finally started again. By signing Carroll I think we may be setting ourselves up to fail. Most people in this thread are being romantic and I appreciate that, in fact I admire it; it is half the reason why I love this club too. I will be joyful to see Carroll play for the toon again no matter the price, as at the end of the day I am not paying for him. But the amount of money people are expecting to pay for him is bonkers and I do not believe for one minute Mike Ashley will be conned to attempt another purely romantic gesture with this club. The speculation that is occurring should be centred on what the club is willing to sacrifice to get Andy back home. Not just in terms of financial details but as to style of play, overall success, adjustability of the club and future ambitions. This one transfer target is not based on the old skill/talent, price/wage argument. It has both very real overarching tangible and intangible outcomes, not just for this season but for the general short term future of the club. Pardew has detached himself from the bid in my opinion for two reasons, Firstly Pardew is trying to distance himself from throwing in low-ball bids to clubs for players to unsettle them. Put simply if you are the "face" of the football club you would chose not to negatively disrupt your persona. Mike and Dekka are perceived in the footballing world as grade A indigenous cunts Pardew in comparison looks like he is fighting the good fight compared to those two. It is my opinion a determining factor of why he won Manager of the Year award. Sure he was the most deserving but these two helped his cause. It’s been said that he’s available, and if we’re involved then we’ll be involved because of the figures I’m slightly detached from that. It’ll be what it’ll be. The Second reason, is strengthened by the first quote and summed up in the final exert and can be translated as follows, "Andy is on our list of striking targets. I am not making the final decision as all the names are of comparative quality. The decision will be made through evaluating the various financial factors of each player." This will not be a decision made due to romantic influences, mark my words if we do sign Andy Carroll, we will have fleeced Liverpool for as much if not more than what we did in the first place. Happy hunting mike and dekka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Im not reading all that mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyeyzzon Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Dreading the thought of signing Carroll, back to a 4-4-2, playing it long, not looking after the ball and bypassing quality like HBA, Cabaye, Jonas, Cisse etc. This is my only worry. Haven't seen Carroll excel much in a game plan that involves him being the target of long balls and crosses. We'd certainly have to go ditch the 4-3-3 as well with him there, as there's no way we're dropping Cisse or relegating him to the wing. Carroll-Cisse and Carroll-Ba might work, but playing three of them at once will not, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbel1 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Everyone's proper doom and gloom now all of a sudden, f***ing schizophrenic bastards It's a football forum and it's meant to be bi-polar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Im not reading all that mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 My take on the quotes is that Ashley/Lambias have gone off their own backs to try and sort a deal for Carroll but it's because they know Pardew rates him and they like the look of the price. In todays world of football it can't shock anybody that managers have nothing to do with transfer dealings and very little to do with what player we sign. If Carroll returns, Pardew will be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Tried to make this comment on earlier page but it got a bit lost. I am fairly ambivalent on Carroll coming - happy to have him on loan or for a fee that is lower than 10 million. Any higher than 10 million and I would have to think quite carefully. 15 million+, I wouldn't bother. But, I have noticed people saying we could get much better strikers than Carroll for less. So, my question is... who could we realistically get for less than Carroll who is better? I am interested to know what suggestions are put forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Im not reading all that mate. Basically he thinks the Carroll saga was a 'cheeky loan bid which has been blown out of proportion'. Pretty much that opinion dragged into the style of a novel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Im not reading all that mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Funnily enough, buying Carroll right now actually fits perfectly into our transfer policy. This is a player who's valuation is probably at its lowest ebb. Never mind improving, even if he can only get back to being as good as he was when he was playing for us, he'll never be sold for anything less than 10m for the rest of his career. And what better place to get things back on track than his hometown club? In this respect, signing Carroll now really isn't that different from signing someone like Ben Arfa or Santon when we did. Although he doesn't necessarily fit into the current team, between European games and Cup games, he'll get plenty of time on the pitch this season. And who knows what happens moving forward. In a year or two, we may have sold off Cisse or Ba for another ridiculous fee. Alternatively, we might just sell Carroll for 35m again. Assuming that he's willing to take a wage cut and accept that he'll have to fight his way into the starting XI, I don't see why not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It's a cunning plan, he'll be good again then chelsea will buy him for a ridiculous markup, he'll be crap and they sell him back cheap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Funnily enough, buying Carroll right now actually fits perfectly into our transfer policy. This is a player who's valuation is probably at its lowest ebb. Never mind improving, even if he can only get back to being as good as he was when he was playing for us, he'll never be sold for anything less than 10m for the rest of his career. And what better place to get things back on track than his hometown club? In this respect, signing Carroll now really isn't that different from signing someone like Ben Arfa or Santon when we did. Although he doesn't necessarily fit into the current team, between European games and Cup games, he'll get plenty of time on the pitch this season. And who knows what happens moving forward. In a year or two, we may have sold off Cisse or Ba for another ridiculous fee. Alternatively, we might just sell Carroll for 35m again. Assuming that he's willing to take a wage cut and accept that he'll have to fight his way into the starting XI, I don't see why not. Fuck off with that talking sense shit, dude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Stick a pony in me pocket I'll fetch the suitcase from the van Cause if you want the best 'uns And you don't ask questions Then brother I'm your man Where it all comes from Is a mystery It's like the changing of the seasons And the tides of the sea But heres the one thats driving me berserk Why do only fools and horses work Seriously though, a list of players has been drawn up and money decided upon. Pards gets asked about negotiations he has nothing to do with whilst on pre-season and says these negotiations are taking place at corporate level. Crazy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Do you think when Pardew drew up his list of players, Carroll was on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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