Mole_Toonfan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yup, one of the problems had been folk suggesting the pacey striker who can play wide but who? Not even those who hammer Champ Man and watch ESPN 24/7 have been able to come up with this ideal player. I have mentioned Dembele and Guidetti. It's a tough thing to suggest mainly because a lot of wide-forwards are already at CL clubs and starting for them. Would love Dembele here. Not sure just for the following either: Demba Ba Demba Cisse Dembele Never noticed that before, the main reason i suggested him is because of his versatility of being able to play outwide, upfront and in midfield. As well as having a year left on his contract, if we are willing to spend 12m on a player i'd like it to be on someone like him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yup, one of the problems had been folk suggesting the pacey striker who can play wide but who? Not even those who hammer Champ Man and watch ESPN 24/7 have been able to come up with this ideal player. I have mentioned Dembele and Guidetti. It's a tough thing to suggest mainly because a lot of wide-forwards are already at CL clubs and starting for them. Would love Dembele here. Not sure just for the following either: Demba Ba Demba Cisse Dembele Never noticed that before, the main reason i suggested him is because of his versatility of being able to play outwide, upfront and in midfield. As well as having a year left on his contract, if we are willing to spend 12m on a player i'd like it to be on someone like him. Aye, Dembele is a cracking player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Aye Sewelly - his game's not all about crosses but his "great end of season form" is made up of a header against Everton, a header against Chelsea, a header against Blackburn and a header against Sweden. Laughable to say that's not his game. It is and he's bloody good at it on his day but it's not ours. You must have missed his FA Cup final goal. Cisse would have been proud of that bit of skill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Michael Vaughan (The former England cricketer) saying that the deal has been done, permanent move. Possibly the weirdest ITK on Twitter Think he's been on the drink. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The thread title Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Aye Sewelly - his game's not all about crosses but his "great end of season form" is made up of a header against Everton, a header against Chelsea, a header against Blackburn and a header against Sweden. Laughable to say that's not his game. It is and he's bloody good at it on his day but it's not ours. None of our wingers/midfielders are seemingly the type to be putting crosses in for him. Ben Arfa cuts inside and prefers to shoot, take players out of the game, play a through ball, cut a ball across the box etc. By all accounts (I'm trusting madras on this) Marveaux is a similar player if he can keep fit. Cabaye loves to look for incisive passes. Jonas for me is far better at that side of the game than he is the traditional crossing. Even Santon if he's played at left back is liable to cut inside and run towards goal then look for a pass to a teammate (Cisse's first vs Chelsea). The only player in our potential set-up next season that may be in a prominent position to swing crosses over is Debuchy and he's not even an NUFC player as of right now. Thing is - Ben Arfa for eg can put a good cross in because he has the technique and skill to do so, like for Cisse's first against Liverpool. But it isn't any of those players strengths and we shouldn't be asking them to set up like that on a regular basis. Broken record but I see him adding to nothing to us but as maybe an effective plan B which is what he is right now at Liverpool anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Michael Vaughan (The former England cricketer) saying that the deal has been done, permanent move. Possibly the weirdest ITK on Twitter Think he's been on the drink. Maybe mates with Swann and Harmison. not that they would have much more of a clue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StellaExpress Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hmmmm who ever he is out with they dont want there identity revealed!! https://twitter.com/VaughanCricket/status/225327252697657344/photo/1 Could there be something in this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny1982 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I personally would have Carroll back tomorrow. He was unplayable at times for us and i could imagine him coming back would make him have an edge with trying to win over fans and having a point to prove to Liverpool and Rodgers. Not to mention because he already had his big move he'd hopefully be more settled in that the press wouldn't have him linked to a big move every time he has a good game, he'd just be allowed to play football. As for playing style it's not as if we've played like Barca last season. When Ben Arfa came in after the Sunderland game and we changed to a 4-3-3 then we played a more fluid game but more the majority of the season we were set up 4-4-2 and in some of the stand-out games like Man utd we were direct and bullied them. Pardew is the type of guy who adjusts his formation depending on the opposition so I'd be confident he'd get them all playing together! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hmmmm who ever he is out with they dont want there identity revealed!! http://pic.twitter.com/BC1rTPbD Could there be something in this? Doubt it.. quite random though all the same. Probably out with someone that thinks they are itk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StellaExpress Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hmmmm who ever he is out with they dont want there identity revealed!! https://twitter.com/VaughanCricket/status/225327252697657344/photo/1 Could there be something in this? Resent due to missing link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Vaughany's on the drink like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I dunno though If Carroll is the kind of player who can come in for games where we want a big man up front and on as a sub, seems too much of a confidence player, and having been our main man and no 9 that'll be one hell of a reality check even if he can dismiss the liverpool years as a misadventure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Aye Sewelly - his game's not all about crosses but his "great end of season form" is made up of a header against Everton, a header against Chelsea, a header against Blackburn and a header against Sweden. Laughable to say that's not his game. It is and he's bloody good at it on his day but it's not ours. None of our wingers/midfielders are seemingly the type to be putting crosses in for him. Ben Arfa cuts inside and prefers to shoot, take players out of the game, play a through ball, cut a ball across the box etc. By all accounts (I'm trusting madras on this) Marveaux is a similar player if he can keep fit. Cabaye loves to look for incisive passes. Jonas for me is far better at that side of the game than he is the traditional crossing. Even Santon if he's played at left back is liable to cut inside and run towards goal then look for a pass to a teammate (Cisse's first vs Chelsea). The only player in our potential set-up next season that may be in a prominent position to swing crosses over is Debuchy and he's not even an NUFC player as of right now. Thing is - Ben Arfa for eg can put a good cross in because he has the technique and skill to do so, like for Cisse's first against Liverpool. But it isn't any of those players strengths and we shouldn't be asking them to set up like that on a regular basis. Broken record but I see him adding to nothing to us but as maybe an effective plan B which is what he is right now at Liverpool anyway. This is doing my head in, you both implying he is completely dependent on crosses and only scores from headers. I urge you to have a look back at the goals he's scored for us and Liverpool. There's quite a few headers there, maybe even 50% of his goal tally, but there's also plenty of scorchers, tap ins and well worked goals. I could understand this argument coming from a supporter who only looks at a player's main attribute and goes from there, but you both have seen him with your own eyes playing for us for crying out loud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Have to admit, I've still absolutely no idea how we'd line up if Carroll came back (and Ba didn't leave). I wonder if Pardew knows. It's a strange one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Aye Sewelly - his game's not all about crosses but his "great end of season form" is made up of a header against Everton, a header against Chelsea, a header against Blackburn and a header against Sweden. Laughable to say that's not his game. It is and he's bloody good at it on his day but it's not ours. None of our wingers/midfielders are seemingly the type to be putting crosses in for him. Ben Arfa cuts inside and prefers to shoot, take players out of the game, play a through ball, cut a ball across the box etc. By all accounts (I'm trusting madras on this) Marveaux is a similar player if he can keep fit. Cabaye loves to look for incisive passes. Jonas for me is far better at that side of the game than he is the traditional crossing. Even Santon if he's played at left back is liable to cut inside and run towards goal then look for a pass to a teammate (Cisse's first vs Chelsea). The only player in our potential set-up next season that may be in a prominent position to swing crosses over is Debuchy and he's not even an NUFC player as of right now. Thing is - Ben Arfa for eg can put a good cross in because he has the technique and skill to do so, like for Cisse's first against Liverpool. But it isn't any of those players strengths and we shouldn't be asking them to set up like that on a regular basis. Broken record but I see him adding to nothing to us but as maybe an effective plan B which is what he is right now at Liverpool anyway. This is doing my head in, you both implying he is completely dependent on crosses and only scores from headers. I urge you to have a look back at the goals he's scored for us and Liverpool. There's quite a few headers there, maybe even 50% of his goal tally, but there's also plenty of scorchers, tap ins and well worked goals. I could understand this argument coming from a supporter who only looks at a player's main attribute and goes from there, but you both have seen him with your own eyes playing for us for crying out loud. Just to back that up. Of Carrolls 11 goals for Liverpool, only 3 were headers. Of Carrolls last 37 goals overall, 20 were shots, 17 were headers. He isnt purely dependant on crosses atall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The best Carroll moment from last season was when Gary Caldwell skinned him to score the winner at Anfield for Wigan. It was fucking hilarious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've watched all of his goals for us in the Championship, Premier League and all goals for Liverpool again since we were linked with this move. He's scored a lot of headers from wide service and set pieces, finishing off lose balls in and around the box and a few powerful left footed finishes. There is almost no occasion where has he scored a goal because of an incisive through ball, through clever movement to create space and a composed finish in on goal. That's not his game and it's not snobbishness or doing him a disservice to suggest so. It's the main reason he has failed at Liverpool so far and the main reason they are getting rid IMO and also the ultimate reason I don't see how he'd fit in here in our line-up or mesh with our current crop of players. Everytime he's played for Liverpool they have been criticised for NOT playing to his strengths enough and they've consistently looked better when he's not on the pitch. I fear exactly the same thing will happen here. Everybody keeps saying how can you forget what he did when he was here - I'm not, I'm judging what he did here objectively without black and white specs on and combining it with the 18 month sample of football we've seen since he left in a different team, plus looking at our squad and the strengths of our current team. It's my conclusion that it won't work and is a bad idea. It's my opinion that he won't fit other than as a useful option off the bench and to add imputus to our set pieces, attributes not worth the investment as far as I'm concerned and we'd be better off looking for somebody who fits our team better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Sewelly, the attributes you mention are ones we don't have at all. We have a central midfielder in Cabaye and a winger in Ben Arfa that often out in quality aerial service. Why not give them another target? I think he would be a fantastic option off the bench. We don't need to change or make him our main impetus of our attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've watched all of his goals for us in the Championship, Premier League and all goals for Liverpool again since we were linked with this move. He's scored a lot of headers from wide service and set pieces, finishing off lose balls in and around the box and a few powerful left footed finishes. There is almost no occasion where has he scored a goal because of an incisive through ball, through clever movement to create space and a composed finish in on goal. That's not his game and it's not snobbishness or doing him a disservice to suggest so. It's the main reason he has failed at Liverpool so far and the main reason they are getting rid IMO and also the ultimate reason I don't see how he'd fit in here in our line-up or mesh with our current crop of players. Everytime he's played for Liverpool they have been criticised for NOT playing to his strengths enough and they've consistently looked better when he's not on the pitch. I fear exactly the same thing will happen here. Everybody keeps saying how can you forget what he did when he was here - I'm not, I'm judging what he did here objectively without black and white specs on and combining it with the 18 month sample of football we've seen since he left in a different team, plus looking at our squad and the strengths of our current team. It's my conclusion that it won't work and is a bad idea. It's my opinion that he won't fit other than as a useful option off the bench and to add imputus to our set pieces, attributes not worth the investment as far as I'm concerned and we'd be better off looking for somebody who fits our team better. Pretty much nailed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'm sorry Sewelly, but to suggest he has no clever movement or composure in front of goal after you've just re-watched all his goals knowing what Jayson has just laid out in front of you (60% of those were not headers) you are just being biased and unwilling to admit you were talking rubbish when you claimed he was fully dependent on crosses in my humble opinion. However, seeing as we're apparently not going to agree even faced with the same facts and footage, let's agree to disagree and hope we bring in the best possible forward we can get to compliment our Demba's, whoever that may be. Edit: I would also like to add, as pointed out previously by another poster as well, that as far as through balls are concerned, Carroll back then was dependent on service from the likes of Alan Smith and Nicky Butt from central midfield, so it's hard to count that against him, as I don't believe even Ba or Cisse would have exactly thrived on such service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hasn't Andre Ayew played as a striker? Even though he's more of a winger/forward, been impressed with him the times i've seen him. His end product probably isn't much to shout about, apart from that he's a very good player imo, African though (ACON) Or it might have been Remy who played as a striker as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hasn't Andre Ayew played as a striker? Even though he's more of a winger/forward, been impressed with him the times i've seen him. His end product probably isn't much to shout about, apart from that he's a very good player imo, African though (ACON) Or it might have been Remy who played as a striker as well. Ayew is another one i was going to mention, he can play as a CM too. French media linked us with him before his injury as well. AFCON is a massive downside though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 How is ACN a concern with someone of Ayew's quality. He is essentially the player you wish Jonas was. He would be a top signing for any team he went to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 How is ACN a concern with someone of Ayew's quality. He is essentially the player you wish Jonas was. He would be a top signing for any team he went to. Yeah, i'd just like the whole team not to go missing during January lol. Quality wise it would be a no brainer of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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