Why is losing like this acceptable?

[Guest firetotheworks]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

[Robster]

Take away the stadium and away following and what do we have to offer apart from cringeworthy tabloid headlines. No wonder other fans think we are deluded clowns.

But you cant just take the stadium away. The stadium is a symbol of how far we have come.

Reverse the question... are we a small club? Call me deluded but I would say we definitely are not a small club.

 

[Guest neesy111]

we are a small club with small time ambitions if we want to be a big club we need to spend and act like a big club

 

[bobbydazzla]

Take away the stadium and away following and what do we have to offer apart from cringeworthy tabloid headlines. No wonder other fans think we are deluded clowns.

But you cant just take the stadium away. The stadium is a symbol of how far we have come.

Reverse the question... are we a small club? Call me deluded but I would say we definitely are not a small club.

 

 

how far we have come from when ? The 80's when we truly s****, yes. The 90's and early 00's, no chance, we've gone miles backwards.

 

all the stadium says is that we have 45-50,000 people who will pay to watch NUFC season after season. it means we have a big fanbase, not that we are a big club.

 

when we win something, challenge for trophies regularly, play in europe every season, have a strong squad and can attract world class talent to play for us then we will be a "big club". We got very close in the 90's then f***ed it all up in spectacular fashion.

 

currently we are below average in everything we do other than the our ability to generate headlines for all the wrong reasons.

 

 

 

 

[pedro111]

Don't be sorry, it's the whole point of a forum imo.

 

How would you define 'stature'? Does 'stature' = 'big club'?

 

Size of stadium, fanbase, history, turnover etc.

 

NUFC despite what some of our own fans would rubbish is a big club, one of the biggest in the country although not an elite club which I regard Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal as. I'd say Everton are a big club too along with Villa, Spurs and Chelsea. Clubs of stature.

 

Yeah I'd say basically when you add together fan base, stadium, turnover, honours etc etc you get a club of 'stature'.

 

People think we've won f*** all as a club EVER.  Sure we've won nowt in years but we've won 6 YES SIX FA CUPS as well as a European trophy amongst other things.  We have been a top three side numerous times since the PL started and even as recently as THIS DECADE. Numerous stints in the CL to boot aswell as more seasons in the UEFA cup than I can keep count of. Sure, we are s*** now but these things should not be forgotten.  

 

I'd say these are the 'true' clubs of stature in England:

 

Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Everton, Spurs, Villa, and Leeds.

 

Some others may come close to this group but they are the undoubted 'Big Clubs'.

 

[The Prophet]

A club of our stature should never ever be on the end of scorelines like this against any opposition, not at home and it is about time the fans of this club stopped accepting such s**** from the club and demand more from it. I've had enough of making excuses for them. Kinnear ought to be sacked for masterminding such an inept performance while the players should be publicly flogged.

 

And that's the kind of daft response that gives people this idea our fan base delusional. Yes, we may still have some remaining stature off the pitch but you really think we have any on it? Do teams still come to St. James' Park and think a point would be a good result? Maybe when we're in a bit of form yes, but in normal circumstances I doubt it.

 

I don't want to get dragged into the whole "are we a big club debate" because in the current situation it really means nothing to me. Before we even attempt to start being respected as a football club again we need to see out this season. This footballing year has been an absolute train wreck for us (for obvious reasons). Kinnear has managed to get us into a position where we are able to pick up points here and there and in our position every point is vital.

 

When you’re in this state as a football club you expect to get a battering or two along the way. Now I was as pissed off as the next fan when it comes to today’s result, but I like a couple of others I was always expecting it. It wasn't the first dismal showing this season and it won't be the last. We just need to keep them to a minimum and try to scrape as many points as we can. I for one won't be screaming "at least we're a big club" if we're spending next year in the tier below.

 

[WhatTheFunk]

 

We certainly were woeful for most of the match, and all outfield players definitely need a good bollocking after that non-performance. However, we did improve for very short spells and looked like having the ability on the park to claw ourselves back into the game. But everytime that happened, Liverpool would either score, or a decision would go against us. Owen's goal should have stood. What happens next? Hyppia scores, heads go down. Heads go up again after Edgar's goal. What happens next? Lucas handballs in our area before that softshite goal by Babbel. Heads go down again. We have another bit of a spell before Geremi cracks the crossbar, then Liverpool go back down the other end and score. That was when the players' heads went down again permanently.

 

No we did not deserve anything from the game performance wise, but I've seen us play worse and win.

[Guest BooBoo]

Cant be fussed to read through this thread but have the KB3 (Keegan Bottom Bumming Brigade) hijacked it?

[cp40]

Im in the KGB.....Keegan,got Betrayed

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

 

[fredbob]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

 

 

Seconded.

 

 

[magpie418]

People think we've won f*** all as a club EVER.  Sure we've won nowt in years but we've won 6 YES SIX FA CUPS as well as a European trophy amongst other things.

 

If honours make a 'big' club, would you consider a club that, in it's history, has won 2 European cups, 2 FA cups, 4 League cups and been league champions, amongst other things, a big club?

 

 

 

 

[pedro111]

People think we've won f*** all as a club EVER.  Sure we've won nowt in years but we've won 6 YES SIX FA CUPS as well as a European trophy amongst other things.

 

If honours make a 'big' club, would you consider a club that, in it's history, has won 2 European cups, 2 FA cups, 4 League cups and been league champions, amongst other things, a big club?

 

Honours - Go towards.

 

[chicago_shearer]

Fuck Kevin Keegan.

[magpie418]

People think we've won f*** all as a club EVER.  Sure we've won nowt in years but we've won 6 YES SIX FA CUPS as well as a European trophy amongst other things.

 

If honours make a 'big' club, would you consider a club that, in it's history, has won 2 European cups, 2 FA cups, 4 League cups and been league champions, amongst other things, a big club?

 

Honours - Go towards.

 

 

With... bums on seats?

 

Whats more important in determining a 'big' club, past honours or current/recent past gate size?

 

not having a go, just curious.

 

 

[dustynrg]

Theres nothing more small time than this big club debate.

 

 

Seconded.

 

 

 

Thirded, who gives a flying fuck whether we're a big club, little club. We support NUFC - that's it. If we get relegated to the Conference League we'll still be supporting them - it's the most pointless argument.

 

My Dad's bigger than your Dad FFS.

[pedro111]

People think we've won f*** all as a club EVER.  Sure we've won nowt in years but we've won 6 YES SIX FA CUPS as well as a European trophy amongst other things.

 

If honours make a 'big' club, would you consider a club that, in it's history, has won 2 European cups, 2 FA cups, 4 League cups and been league champions, amongst other things, a big club?

 

Honours - Go towards.

 

 

With... bums on seats?

 

Whats more important in determining a 'big' club, past honours or current/recent past gate size?

 

not having a go, just curious.

 

Oh howay man weve gone into this.

 

Fanbase, trophies, stadium, turnover are the main criteria for a big club.  Anyway you look at it we tick all the boxes.

[Guest Jawesome]

Fuck Kevin Keegan.

[Robster]

Fuck Kevin Keegan.

Whats the relevance lads. Cant you move on ?

[indi]

Jesus fucking Christ!!

 

If you have to argue your case for being a big club then the simple fact is:

 

You aren't!

 

Who gives a fuck anyway!?! (That's what's called a rhetorical question for anyone that is thinking of responding to it) I'd much prefer to be a successful club than a big club, but success is relative and at the moment success for us is stability and building for the future. If people are judging our success by how many trophies we're going to win then they're going to be sorely disappointed, now and for the foreseeable future. People need to get some kind of grasp of the reality of our situation and manage their expectations accordingly, otherwise it's going to be self-defeating. The mess we're in now is almost entirely down to various people's delusions of grandeur and their refusal to give up on their unrealistic expectations of what's possible for this club at this moment in time. People need to get a fucking grip before it's too late.

[magpie418]

Jesus f***ing Christ!!

 

If you have to argue your case for being a big club then the simple fact is:

 

You aren't!

 

Who gives a f*** anyway!?! (That's what's called a rhetorical question for anyone that is thinking of responding to it) I'd much prefer to be a successful club than a big club, but success is relative and at the moment success for us is stability and building for the future. If people are judging our success by how many trophies we're going to win then they're going to be sorely disappointed, now and for the foreseeable future. People need to get some kind of grasp of the reality of our situation and manage their expectations accordingly, otherwise it's going to be self-defeating. The mess we're in now is almost entirely down to various people's delusions of grandeur and their refusal to give up on their unrealistic expectations of what's possible for this club at this moment in time. People need to get a f***ing grip before it's too late.

 

Spot on.

[Dave]

I don't even know why so many people picked up on my 'big club' comment in the first place tbh. That was just part of my point that we shouldn't be accepting performances like today. People were going on like we're fucking Derby or something and should be expecting bumrapings like that as a matter of course. And that complaining about it is out of order.

[pedro111]

meh, meh, meh.

[indi]

I don't even know why so many people picked up on my 'big club' comment in the first place tbh. That was just part of my point that we shouldn't be accepting performances like today. People were going on like we're fucking Derby or something and should be expecting bumrapings like that as a matter of course. And that complaining about it is out of order.

 

My comments weren't directed at you mate, just at the whole "big club" thing in general, it bores the shit out of me.

 

With regard to your actual post then I'd say that losing like we did today isn't acceptable, but it is going to happen with things as they are. Confidence is fragile, so is our squad, both in terms of ability and numbers and with all the turmoil surrounding the club at the moment - which some people seem determined to drag out for as long as they can (but that's an entirely different thread) - performances like that are going to happen once in a while. Tiny things are going to make a lot of difference to whether we win or lose games at the moment and we're just as likely to give (some) teams a kicking when we do put it together as we are to get one when we don't. For example the first half against Stoke was one of the best I've seen from us for a long time, but the second was one of the worst. Today was woeful by all accounts, but we need to move on and think about the next game, this one is gone now, hopefully the players can too, if they can perhaps we'll win and this will all be forgotten (well sort of). We got no points today, but that's it, we don't lose points no matter how bad we play, so apart from having a worse goal difference it's not been that bad, I didn't expect anything from today's game in the first place, I suspect you didn't either. Yeah, we got a kicking, but there's still 3 points available next match and we've got just as much chance of getting them as we did before this game, unless we dwell on it and it affects our subsequent performances.

[Neil]

In terms of the fanbase, how is it measured? Is it as simple as saying "we have more fans"? Not imo, as the geography of the area has to be accounted for. If Newcastle don't have a big fanbase due to having a big city to themselves, then there's something majorly wrong.