Tottenham Hotspur 1 - 0 Newcastle - 19/04/08 - post match reaction from page 25

[Tachikoma]

Smith passing was a bit plus today for me. Ok, he wasn't Alonso or Fabregas or even Huddlestone but he constantly looked forward and looked to move the ball early.

 

A massive upgrade on Butt thats for sure.

 

Actually, Butt tries to do the same thing as well. Of course, the problem is that most of his passes over 5 yards rarely ever find a black and white shirt.

 

Before this match, I hadn't seen Smith complete a pass over 10 yards, so "massive upgrade" might be a bit of an overstatement.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Positives

 

- Shearer isn't scared to change things, Martins and Viduka were on after 61 minutes and we went (more-or-less) 4-3-3. How many times has Kinnear/Hughton waited till the 84th minute before making a change?

 

 

That's for sure! When was the last time we had made all subs at 61minute? That's not an optimal situation of course considering possible injuries/sent offs but clearly we tried to change the course of the game which can't be said about his predecessors.

 

The frustrating thing is why can't he get it right the first time?

 

that's EXACTLY what i thought yesterday, still he's only had 3 games as manager with a travesty of a group of players so maybe that's a little harsh

 

if he doesn't start martins and viduka next game then i'll probably lose all faith tbh

 

anyone know why guthrie didn't play?

[Tachikoma]

 

Positives

 

- Shearer isn't scared to change things, Martins and Viduka were on after 61 minutes and we went (more-or-less) 4-3-3. How many times has Kinnear/Hughton waited till the 84th minute before making a change?

 

 

That's for sure! When was the last time we had made all subs at 61minute? That's not an optimal situation of course considering possible injuries/sent offs but clearly we tried to change the course of the game which can't be said about his predecessors.

 

The frustrating thing is why can't he get it right the first time?

 

that's EXACTLY what i thought yesterday, still he's only had 3 games as manager with a travesty of a group of players so maybe that's a little harsh

 

if he doesn't start martins and viduka next game then i'll probably lose all faith tbh

 

anyone know why guthrie didn't play?

 

Martins really looked like he was struggling with his groin, and Viduka won't last 90 minutes either.

 

Guthrie on the other hand, has to start.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Positives

 

- Shearer isn't scared to change things, Martins and Viduka were on after 61 minutes and we went (more-or-less) 4-3-3. How many times has Kinnear/Hughton waited till the 84th minute before making a change?

 

 

That's for sure! When was the last time we had made all subs at 61minute? That's not an optimal situation of course considering possible injuries/sent offs but clearly we tried to change the course of the game which can't be said about his predecessors.

 

The frustrating thing is why can't he get it right the first time?

 

that's EXACTLY what i thought yesterday, still he's only had 3 games as manager with a travesty of a group of players so maybe that's a little harsh

 

if he doesn't start martins and viduka next game then i'll probably lose all faith tbh

 

anyone know why guthrie didn't play?

 

Martins really looked like he was struggling with his groin, and Viduka won't last 90 minutes either.

 

Guthrie on the other hand, has to start.

 

oh yeah i know that, sorry maybe that came across wrong - i understand why they didn't start yesterday i just won't understand if they don't start the next game fitness permitting

 

why, on the other hand duff, nolan, butt & r taylor all "played" at the same time i cannot fathom for the life of me

[Dr Venkman]

100% down now.

[Razor]

Really depressing to watch. The players shouldnt be standing off spurs, continually they were allowed space to run into and loads of time, for a team like they are its the totally wrong tactic, if teams hassle them and dont give them time on the ball they often crumple (which is what they did to us, we had no time in possession and rarely did our plays build to anything noteworthy, there was no continuity). I would have thought that Shearer would have seen the 3 at the back didnt really work last week, but he indicated in one interview he thought it did...

 

Was disapointing Guthrie, Martins and Viduka didnt start but i thought all three had injury problems or were coming back from them. Maybe Guthrie was due to come on but Taylors sub meant that the best two dice rolls were Martins and Viduka. It seems a general apathy towards that latter builds up every time he is out (most of the time) but when he returns we're all reminded of his quality, he had a noticable impact and rarely looses the ball, but i doubt he would last 90 minutes at this stage. In any decent team Owen would be an asset on the pitch but due to the complete and utter lack of service for the majority of the season he just goes missing, but to his credit he does drop back and try to bring it up, but he cant be two places at once. The main problem has to be the seen as the midfield, its hopeless, Butt and Nolan tackle well granted but they give nothing going forward 90% of the time, Barton (even unfit) and Guthrie have to be given a go.

 

We need atleast 7 points, but as said are we really going to win 2/3 home games when we've won 4 all season... The points from todays game werent a MUST WIN but i fear the mentality a win would have given, which is needed to move forward and win the home games, was. Its gonna take a minor miracle to get this mob playing the football they need to now. I think the desire is there for most of them but its mixed with a lack of confidence etc which is draining away any chance of playing reasonable football.

[Martin Lol]

Just got back from this game (via several beers in Brum). Not read all the thread but we were pathetic today, it could easily have been 3 or 4 goals to nil.

We have to improve for those 3 home games or we are f***ed simple as that.

 

Hard to argue with that.  It was the worst performance I think I've ever seen from a Newcastle team at WHL and the worst team performance there this season by a long way.  It was more like a training game until Martins came on and the atmosphere was flat because of it.  Gutless performance is the only way I can describe it.  The only encouragement I can offer is that it should be obvious to a blind man that Martins, fitness permitting, should play in the remaining matches and if he can, then I can see Newcastle possibly having enough to avoid the drop.  I don't think relegation is inevitable.  Newcastle may have only won 4 home games this season but there is still no reason why they can't wind up the season with at least 6, maybe 7 bearing in mind the opposition.  Fulham are the only team that should pose any kind of a threat.

[mrmojorisin75]

where's the "we always beat spurs" merchants anyhow? 

 

this result was with new manager syndrome as well, under or hughton it would have been a fucking bloodbath

[Mowen]

We were very disappointing. Once again we didn't look up to the fight until the last 20-30mins, which is disgraceful really.

 

Even more galling is that Spurs were also very poor, and very much there for the taking. They looked utterly incapable of breaking us down for all their possession in and around our area, didn't make Harper work enough for their terretorial advantage and got a let off when Oba missed at the end. Ultimately they relied on a goal that was down to some very poor defending and goalkeeping and a huge amount of luck (ball breaking to Bent twice). Having said all that, they were worthy winners on the day.

[Ashley17]

The commentators was very negative to the goal that was taken away from Martins when he scored, they said there wasnt much intent in the hand ball, anyone has any direct explanation if that was an fault by Martins, or should it been allowed?

 

If we'd had a penalty given against us for a handball like that I'd be livid. It was smashed at him from a yard away.

[Mowen]

The commentators was very negative to the goal that was taken away from Martins when he scored, they said there wasnt much intent in the hand ball, anyone has any direct explanation if that was an fault by Martins, or should it been allowed?

 

If we'd had a penalty given against us for a handball like that I'd be livid. It was smashed at him from a yard away.

 

He couldn't do much about it, but I thought it was the right decision from the ref in that case, he clearly (but inadvertantly) controlled it with his hand and wouldn't have scored without it. On the other hand, I thought Woodgate's challange on Oba was a clear pen.

[mrmojorisin75]

The commentators was very negative to the goal that was taken away from Martins when he scored, they said there wasnt much intent in the hand ball, anyone has any direct explanation if that was an fault by Martins, or should it been allowed?

 

If we'd had a penalty given against us for a handball like that I'd be livid. It was smashed at him from a yard away.

 

He couldn't do much about it, but I thought it was the right decision from the ref in that case, he clearly (but inadvertantly) controlled it with his hand and wouldn't have scored without it. On the other hand, I thought Woodgate's challange on Oba was a clear pen.

 

aye?  looked perfectly timed to me but then they only replayed it once on the channel i was watching

 

have to give that as a handball, fucking hell

[Ashley17]

The commentators was very negative to the goal that was taken away from Martins when he scored, they said there wasnt much intent in the hand ball, anyone has any direct explanation if that was an fault by Martins, or should it been allowed?

 

If we'd had a penalty given against us for a handball like that I'd be livid. It was smashed at him from a yard away.

 

He couldn't do much about it, but I thought it was the right decision from the ref in that case, he clearly (but inadvertantly) controlled it with his hand and wouldn't have scored without it. On the other hand, I thought Woodgate's challange on Oba was a clear pen.

 

Yes, reminded me of the one he won against Birmingham at home under Allardyce.

[TRon]

And i must also say that im disgusted by some of the players fighting spirit today, fucking awful some of them, even Smith came in and made an impact

 

That's what struck me in the first half. I don't know if it was the players hiding behind the new formation excuse, but we were completely out run in midfield. Our movement is usually bad going forward, but yesterday we weren't even bothering to close their players down. So much for the "fighting spirit"  and 100% commitment of Butt and Nolan.

[Guest battyleespeed]

Shearer is repeating the previous managers mistake of playing Owen in hopes he nicks a goal regardless of his form or team formation. The lad has scored two (2) away goals all season. The team is playing so awfully that there would be better chance of nicking a goal with two or three big forwards battling for every long ball pumped out of the defence. Steven Taylor would probably do a better job up front in this situation than what Owen does.

 

The team needs some inspirational play upfront. Seeing Owen jogging around and making couple sprints in hopes of receiving inch-perfect pass isn't inspirational and "luxury" that the team can't afford. Put a big, ugly, in-your-face forward there to bruise people and the match dynamics start to change.

 

This lets-hope-Owen-nicks-a-goal is b*****t that's got to stop.

[Guest battyleespeed]

And i must also say that im disgusted by some of the players fighting spirit today, f***ing awful some of them, even Smith came in and made an impact

 

That's what struck me in the first half. I don't know if it was the players hiding behind the new formation excuse, but we were completely out run in midfield. Our movement is usually bad going forward, but yesterday we weren't even bothering to close their players down. So much for the "fighting spirit"  and 100% commitment of Butt and Nolan.

 

The two central midfielders were just pulled so far out of their positions which is why it looked like that. I didn't watch the match with tactical glasses on, but I'd be willing to guess that they had to come to the wings to cover for our wide players and try to cover those gaps left everywhere due to players poor positioning. When the formation isn't tight enough and tactical discpline is lacking you have central midfielders everywhere trying to do everything for everyone. The fact that both of them are more or less "slow" just made that look double worse.

 

I thought the players were under instructions to stand-off  and not to get tight on their players. Might have been because of threat of Lennon, but it was kinda backfiring as there was no real aggression.

[mrmojorisin75]

Shearer is repeating the previous managers mistake of playing Owen in hopes he nicks a goal regardless of his form or team formation. The lad has scored two (2) away goals all season. The team is playing so awfully that there would be better chance of nicking a goal with two or three big forwards battling for every long ball pumped out of the defence. Steven Taylor would probably do a better job up front in this situation than what Owen does.

 

The team needs some inspirational play upfront. Seeing Owen jogging around and making couple sprints in hopes of receiving inch-perfect pass isn't inspirational and "luxury" that the team can't afford. Put a big, ugly, in-your-face forward there to bruise people and the match dynamics start to change.

 

This lets-hope-Owen-nicks-a-goal is b*****t that's got to stop.

 

the alternative to playing owen please?  given we've no midfield worth a turd

 

4-4-2 with wingers that either can't cross or take people on as far as i can see

[SEMTEX]

The fact that we've no midfield means that Michael Owen is useless in our team. If no-one makes a chance for him, he won't score.

[Pilko]

Our midfield three was far too narrow when we tried to defend. Huddlestone had an excellent pass, he sprayed the ball over to the other wing countless times and there was loads of gaps for the Spurs players to exploit. Nolan in particular was a fucking shambles, Butt gets a partial pardon for sprinting half the length of the pitch to make a shit tackle. Nolan just didn't bother at all. He's a fucking waste of space, the fat fucker needs to be peddled, even if we go down.

[junkhead]

Oba and Carroll upfront please and maybe even the fat aussie bastard

[AfroP]

we were 100% gash

it was difficult to watch the macth at times.

we were made to look like a sunday pub team at times,spurs out passed and out played us.

 

Bassong is by far our best defender and I have no doubt that teh lad will be away in the next transfer window.

 

Owen needs to have a serious think about himsef, he was on the pitch for 90- mins and i did'nt see him.

The differance it made to have Martins(even injured) and the Duke was phenominal.

Owen should not even be the captain, he does'nt deserve the role, on the telly it showed Robbie keane bossing the spuds players and shouting at people to get into position etc. Owen does'nt do that, he does'nt care.

 

Nicky Butt and Damien Duff are simply just not good enough, they both came from top 4 clubs and there is plenty of reason why they are no longer at those clubs.

 

even winning our next 3 home games(a massive ask, considering we have only won 4 home games all season) I honestly dont see us surviving relegation.

even if we do what do we have to look forward to?

Kinear as manager, hughton as assistant, players that are'nt good enough(owen, duff, butt, raylor) and an owner that just does'nt seem to be able to get decisions right.

 

 

 

[beardsleymagic]

The commentators was very negative to the goal that was taken away from Martins when he scored, they said there wasnt much intent in the hand ball, anyone has any direct explanation if that was an fault by Martins, or should it been allowed?

 

If we'd had a penalty given against us for a handball like that I'd be livid. It was smashed at him from a yard away.

 

He couldn't do much about it, but I thought it was the right decision from the ref in that case, he clearly (but inadvertantly) controlled it with his hand and wouldn't have scored without it. On the other hand, I thought Woodgate's challange on Oba was a clear pen.

 

Sorry mate but i have to disagree with you there. If the ball had hit a Spurs player on the hand instead of Oba's, would the ref have given a pen? Would he fuck. This was just a prime example of a weak ref giving to easy decision.

 

This is what boils my piss about refs, they give free kicks for certain things outside the box but the same incident inside the box and suddenly they give a completely different decision.

 

My understanding of the rules of football are that it doesn't matter where a foul/handball etc. occurs on the pitch, the decision should be the same.

[TRon]

And i must also say that im disgusted by some of the players fighting spirit today, f***ing awful some of them, even Smith came in and made an impact

 

That's what struck me in the first half. I don't know if it was the players hiding behind the new formation excuse, but we were completely out run in midfield. Our movement is usually bad going forward, but yesterday we weren't even bothering to close their players down. So much for the "fighting spirit"  and 100% commitment of Butt and Nolan.

 

The two central midfielders were just pulled so far out of their positions which is why it looked like that. I didn't watch the match with tactical glasses on, but I'd be willing to guess that they had to come to the wings to cover for our wide players and try to cover those gaps left everywhere due to players poor positioning. When the formation isn't tight enough and tactical discpline is lacking you have central midfielders everywhere trying to do everything for everyone. The fact that both of them are more or less "slow" just made that look double worse.

 

I thought the players were under instructions to stand-off  and not to get tight on their players. Might have been because of threat of Lennon, but it was kinda backfiring as there was no real aggression.

 

The central midfielders didn't pull wide, Jonas covered the left and Michael Owen did his best to get down the right, but that side was mostly just left vacant. Nolan and Butt lumbered around the central areas mostly just chasing shadows.

[Ashley17]

If you're going to play Owen you pretty much have to play Geremi. Geremi is slow but he can at least cross a ball every now and again.

[Guest battyleespeed]

Shearer is repeating the previous managers mistake of playing Owen in hopes he nicks a goal regardless of his form or team formation. The lad has scored two (2) away goals all season. The team is playing so awfully that there would be better chance of nicking a goal with two or three big forwards battling for every long ball pumped out of the defence. Steven Taylor would probably do a better job up front in this situation than what Owen does.

 

The team needs some inspirational play upfront. Seeing Owen jogging around and making couple sprints in hopes of receiving inch-perfect pass isn't inspirational and "luxury" that the team can't afford. Put a big, ugly, in-your-face forward there to bruise people and the match dynamics start to change.

 

This lets-hope-Owen-nicks-a-goal is b*****t that's got to stop.

 

the alternative to playing owen please?  given we've no midfield worth a turd

 

4-4-2 with wingers that either can't cross or take people on as far as i can see

 

Given how shite the team is in terms of keeping possession and playing it around I'd like to see us switch to the Bolton and Stoke tactics rather than trying to play a game that we don't have players or time for.

 

Carroll/Viduka/Ameobi up front and just keep pumping as many long balls, crosses and long throws as possible and that way put them under pressure and generate at least some chances. That tactic has to pay off more than keeping Owen there and hope he'd get that one perfect chance and put it away.    

 

Put the four hard-tacklers Butt, Smith, Jonas and Barton in midfield and we'd have fair chances of winning the 50-50 balls.

 

.