Should Owen be dropped?

[Guest]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

Cracking post tbh.

[johnnypd]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

well said. in a good attacking side Owen would still look like a good player as he still has the skills to capitalise when the rest of the side creates chances for him. but he is useless in a shit team because a/ he won't create chances for himself and b/ he doesn't lift the performances of other players. Martins on the other hand will do both of these. Place either Owen or Martins in the Arsenal side and Owen will probably look the better player, place both of them in a lesser side and it'll be Martins who shines and Owen will look like a championship player.

[Guest n4e]

Yes, he has been virtually invisible. We cannot carry players, and Michael Owen is a player who has to be carried when he is not scoring. Get him off the pitch and Carroll, Oba and Viduka on.

 

The fact that you've quoted Superdrunk sums it all up. Michael Owen has to play for us to have a chance of staying up. Lets not forget that he was playing right wing and behind the other strikers for large parts of the game on Sunday, so it's not really a suprise the areas where he touched the ball in that diagram.

[80]

In a 4-3-3 formation, no. In a 4-4-2 formation, it'd probably be a yes.

 

As I'm in favour of playing 4-3-3, I've voted no.

 

As the article says though, playing three in midfield when we only have the likes of Nicky Butt and Kevin Nolan to play centrally weakens us significantly. There's no mobility there.

 

Geremi - Butt - Barton incredibly immobile as well, really. I agree in a 4-4-2 he looks done in our team but play him where KK did last season with Oba and Viduka as the flair/spearhead and he'll still score the goals.

 

Nolan - Butt - Guthrie is probably "more mobile" than the 3 played last season, incredibly. Barton is slow as treacle as well (he seems to have become a great player again since his injury, when I tend to think he's been pretty dreadful for us when he has been on the park).

 

I disagree on the comparison to last year. Barton is more mobile than Guthrie in my opinion (though I know exactly what you mean about him getting better and better the less he plays), Geremi though slow had a better touch and offered far more offensively than Nolan does, and Butt is playing worse than ever at the moment.

 

Jonas works hard but can we afford to have an out-and-out attacking player in there? I'm thinking Jonas - Butt/Smith - Guthrie maybe?

 

Conversely, it might be said that our midfield is so weak that we can't afford to waste an extra man on it - its not as though we've got incisive wingers, so we'd be playing Jonas and three of Butt, Guthrie, Nolan and Smith; what's the point? Re: Jonas, I don't think he is an out and out attacker, actually - almost a problem that he's so dutiful in going back, at times.

 

More importantly than what I've just said, the added threat (and even moreso, the blend of threats) offered up front by Martins, Viduka and (hopefully) Owen will more than compensate by reducing pressure on the midfield area (giving Jonas room for manoeuvre) and, ultimately, gives us a better chance of scoring some point-winning goals than a midfield which contains Nolan et al.

 

I find that graphic pretty damning, showing how little Owen got the ball in the box.

 

I find it more damning of the team as a whole than I do simply Owen. He's undoubtedly got his problems - his physical weaknesses meant he wasn't going to single-handedly create situations which added to our midfield/defensive difficulties, but IF he can still do something with service (we shouldn't forget he did score a good goal against Chelsea), then some responsibility must lie with those behind him, who were also incapable of creating something without outside assistance. They presented him with no opportunity to get into the box (its not as though Owen was on the half-way line while the ball was bobbling on the goal line).

 

Basically, my position is we rely upon Martins and Viduka to facilitate the rest of the whole team. Now, even with them, we haven't got a great team of goalscorers (while Viduka's handy (though lazy), Martins is erratic, Jonas still hasn't scored yet etc.), so if we can, as we did last season, create such havoc as a TEAM, we may be able to unlock Owen's hopefully still intact instinct and convert some of the resultant chances.

 

One final thing; not that I think it should be our first port of call, but no one has mentioned a 3-4-3, yet. I think it should be in mind as a resort, as and when circumstances conspire.

 

P.S. Can the poll be changed to offer options re: two and three man partnerships?

[Guest gggg]

If Owen was playing for a top team he would still score bucketloads. The problem is we've got the least creative midfielders in the league, so what do we do? Play three of them in the same team. Genius.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I agree with you that it's not entirely Owen's fault that he isn't getting the ball in the box. I think it is an indictment of all our attacking play from front to back. However, it really is rendering pretty useless, whihc was my point. In the formation and way we played yesterday, there isn't really a place for him on the pitch.

[80]

I agree with you that it's not entirely Owen's fault that he isn't getting the ball in the box. I think it is an indictment of all our attacking play from front to back. However, it really is rendering pretty useless, whihc was my point. In the formation and way we played yesterday, there isn't really a place for him on the pitch.

 

Certainly, I agree that he's useless in a role at all similar to that which we started with against Spurs. Assuming (which I shouldn't) that we come up with a reasonable replacement, I look forward to his departure - we can't go on making all these accommodations, be they tactical, financial or otherwise (certainly not for someone we can't rely on to regularly turn out, at any rate).

[Guest firetotheworks]

No, because there is no better alternative imo. Owen is quality, you can see it whenever he has the ball, the problem is that most of the time he has his back to goal and is on the halfway line fighting to get into the game because our midfield is the worst in the league. It seems like such a quick fix, but solve the midfield and you solve most of our problems iyam.

[mrmojorisin75]

In a 4-3-3 formation, no. In a 4-4-2 formation, it'd probably be a yes.

 

As I'm in favour of playing 4-3-3, I've voted no.

 

As the article says though, playing three in midfield when we only have the likes of Nicky Butt and Kevin Nolan to play centrally weakens us significantly. There's no mobility there.

 

Geremi - Butt - Barton incredibly immobile as well, really. I agree in a 4-4-2 he looks done in our team but play him where KK did last season with Oba and Viduka as the flair/spearhead and he'll still score the goals.

 

Nolan - Butt - Guthrie is probably "more mobile" than the 3 played last season, incredibly. Barton is slow as treacle as well (he seems to have become a great player again since his injury, when I tend to think he's been pretty dreadful for us when he has been on the park).

 

I disagree on the comparison to last year. Barton is more mobile than Guthrie in my opinion (though I know exactly what you mean about him getting better and better the less he plays), Geremi though slow had a better touch and offered far more offensively than Nolan does, and Butt is playing worse than ever at the moment.

 

Jonas works hard but can we afford to have an out-and-out attacking player in there? I'm thinking Jonas - Butt/Smith - Guthrie maybe?

 

Conversely, it might be said that our midfield is so weak that we can't afford to waste an extra man on it - its not as though we've got incisive wingers, so we'd be playing Jonas and three of Butt, Guthrie, Nolan and Smith; what's the point? Re: Jonas, I don't think he is an out and out attacker, actually - almost a problem that he's so dutiful in going back, at times.

 

More importantly than what I've just said, the added threat (and even moreso, the blend of threats) offered up front by Martins, Viduka and (hopefully) Owen will more than compensate by reducing pressure on the midfield area (giving Jonas room for manoeuvre) and, ultimately, gives us a better chance of scoring some point-winning goals than a midfield which contains Nolan et al.

 

I find that graphic pretty damning, showing how little Owen got the ball in the box.

 

I find it more damning of the team as a whole than I do simply Owen. He's undoubtedly got his problems - his physical weaknesses meant he wasn't going to single-handedly create situations which added to our midfield/defensive difficulties, but IF he can still do something with service (we shouldn't forget he did score a good goal against Chelsea), then some responsibility must lie with those behind him, who were also incapable of creating something without outside assistance. They presented him with no opportunity to get into the box (its not as though Owen was on the half-way line while the ball was bobbling on the goal line).

 

Basically, my position is we rely upon Martins and Viduka to facilitate the rest of the whole team. Now, even with them, we haven't got a great team of goalscorers (while Viduka's handy (though lazy), Martins is erratic, Jonas still hasn't scored yet etc.), so if we can, as we did last season, create such havoc as a TEAM, we may be able to unlock Owen's hopefully still intact instinct and convert some of the resultant chances.

 

One final thing; not that I think it should be our first port of call, but no one has mentioned a 3-4-3, yet. I think it should be in mind as a resort, as and when circumstances conspire.

 

P.S. Can the poll be changed to offer options re: two and three man partnerships?

 

er, this - nutshelled up:

 

we don't have the midfield for 4-4-2 but in viduka and martins we have 2 strikers who like playing together and will create havoc and space for owen to exploit

 

owen is made of glass, and i'm his biggest detractor, but he's a natural born goalscorer and GIVEN OPPORTUNITIES will score them

 

parrelells of shearer pre-euro '96 for me, and shearer will know that...pompey is massive now - owen to score, nailed, in fact i'm gonna bet on it

 

if there was a viable alternative it'd be different, but there isn't

[Tsunami]

I'd play Owen in the role he took up late last season. We currently hold no forward threat from any midfield position and we become predictable and slow in our game.

[ohmelads]

Seeing as we're so lacking in quality, I'd adjust the formation to get our most dangerous players all on the park, as Keegan did successfully at the back end of last season.

 

Graft alone will not keep us in the Premier League, you see teams of grafters going down every season. Those who do survive in spite of a lack of quality, teams like Stoke and Bolton, do so by employing a well-drilled system that makes them hard to play against.

 

IF we stay up, it'll be because we get our quality players playing to a decent enough level. Players like Martins, Viduka, Owen and Gutierrez. It's much too late for us to install a system like Bolton (under Allardyce), or Stoke this season. The fact the 4-3-3 worked quite well last season with Viduka, Martins and Owen, presents a very strong case for bringing it back. Keegan employed that when we were playing very poorly and it turned things around. If it can release Gutierrez from his midfield duties a little bit more, we might be able to get him in more dangerous areas.

 

In Owen's defence, he's come in against Man Utd and Chelsea at home, and two tough away games against in-form sides. He's been poor and deserves his criticism, but I do believe that as a team we'll get more chances at home against Pompey, Boro and Fulham than we did in any of those games. When you're on the back foot Owen's not much use, but at home against relatively weaker teams is when he tends to make his mark.

[junkhead]

He should've been sold months ago, offers nothing, doesn't care, legs are gone.. just release the fucker, so that he can have enough time to consider his next multimillion contract.. I pity the side that will take him.

[Filflop1]

Owen is a striker who likes to play in the box but we never create out so he comes looking for the ball from deep, which his not his game give him the ball in the right areas he will score im sure

[Guest Phil K]

There are pluses and minuses against most players - owen is no exception

He's not the player he was, no doubt

Due to injuries (real or not so real) and also due to having to play in front of such a shít midfield.

[Cronky]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

I really disagree with that. Owen has never been a technically gifted player. His touch on the ball and his passing isn't particularly good at all. In the past, he's relied on his athleticism, but now that he's lost the edge off his pace, the reality is he's just an average Premiership striker.

 

I keep hearing about 'the service' being poor, but it didn't seem to stop Martins getting on the end of a few chances.

[Shak]

No, we need to play him alongside Martins and one of Carroll or Viduka.

 

Ideally a midfield 3 of Barton, Guthrie and Jonas. Think there's a nice balance in that trio, Guthrie the static distributor with Jonas and Barton providing the legs.

[Ronaldo]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

I really disagree with that. Owen has never been a technically gifted player. His touch on the ball and his passing isn't particularly good at all. In the past, he's relied on his athleticism, but now that he's lost the edge off his pace, the reality is he's just an average Premiership striker.

 

I keep hearing about 'the service' being poor, but it didn't seem to stop Martins getting on the end of a few chances.

 

bang on

[Mowen]

No, we need to play him alongside Martins and one of Carroll or Viduka.

 

Ideally a midfield 3 of Barton, Guthrie and Jonas. Think there's a nice balance in that trio, Guthrie the static distributor with Jonas and Barton providing the legs.

 

That's what I'd go for. We need our best players playing such is the dearth of quality in this squad, and finding a solution that can successfully accomodate them all (a la Keegan) is our best (only?) hope.

[Shak]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

I really disagree with that. Owen has never been a technically gifted player. His touch on the ball and his passing isn't particularly good at all. In the past, he's relied on his athleticism, but now that he's lost the edge off his pace, the reality is he's just an average Premiership striker.

 

I keep hearing about 'the service' being poor, but it didn't seem to stop Martins getting on the end of a few chances.

 

bang on

 

Would you drop Owen and play 4-4-2 then?

 

Surely 4-3-3 is the way to go from here on in?

[sugoinufc]

i think we should go for a 4-3-3 .... Attacking is our best defence!

 

If we play 4-3-3, owen should play right behind martins and viduka

 

our central midfield is wack....therefore we could play smith/butt, guthrie and jonas....they are the most hard working.....they should focus on the defence and play direct to our 3 strikers and let them create something. viduka as a target man...if he cant play a whole match then replace with caroll!

 

Owen is poor in 4-4-2....but it isn´t really his fault alone. He need someone to create chances.....he just has to stand the right place....which he is good at!

[TRon]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

I really disagree with that. Owen has never been a technically gifted player. His touch on the ball and his passing isn't particularly good at all. In the past, he's relied on his athleticism, but now that he's lost the edge off his pace, the reality is he's just an average Premiership striker.

 

I keep hearing about 'the service' being poor, but it didn't seem to stop Martins getting on the end of a few chances.

 

I don't think he's a particularly wonderful player but when he had the ball he used it a damn sight better than Nolan. If we are going to leave Owen out then we have to choose someone who will offer more in his place. The passing improved 100% once the midfield of Nolan and Butt was broken up on Sunday, and that's because those two can't pass or move.

[Tooj]

Something I mentioned on another forum earlier on with regards to Owen.

 

I don't think Owen is as good a finisher as people make out.

 

Far too many times in the last couple of seasons he's missed too many chances that someone who was a world class finisher would have buried. Most of his goals now come from him being able to make decisions and react faster than the defenders around him. Not because of his finishing ability.

 

I also don't think he's mentally strong, as say someone like Shearer was. There always seems to be a nagging doubt about his own ability, he never seems to be very confident anymore when he's in those positions. Plus for some reason as well now his shot is weak as piss.

[TRon]

Something I mentioned on another forum earlier on with regards to Owen.

 

I don't think Owen is as good a finisher as people make out.

 

Far too many times in the last couple of seasons he's missed too many chances that someone who was a world class finisher would have buried. Most of his goals now come from him being able to make decisions and react faster than the defenders around him. Not because of his finishing ability.

 

I also don't think he's mentally strong, as say someone like Shearer was. There always seems to be a nagging doubt about his own ability, he never seems to be very confident anymore when he's in those positions. Plus for some reason as well now his shot is weak as piss.

 

That was all true last season as well but Keegan kept faith and he scored the goals which kept us up. He's useless up front but he offers more as a midfielder than Nolan. There's an argument that Guthrie should play but he doesn't offer a goal threat and hasn't convinced in the pressure games.

[mrmojorisin75]

Owen is one of the few players left in our squad who can control a football and pass over 5 yards to a player on our team. I really wish that was a joke, but it's true and for that reason he should be played with our better quality attacking players (Martins, Viduka, Jonas). If we didn't have such a vast lack of quality in the centre of the field (Nolan/Butt), and could keep possession for more than 2 passes, the quality of these attacking players would shine through.

 

I really disagree with that. Owen has never been a technically gifted player. His touch on the ball and his passing isn't particularly good at all. In the past, he's relied on his athleticism, but now that he's lost the edge off his pace, the reality is he's just an average Premiership striker.

 

I keep hearing about 'the service' being poor, but it didn't seem to stop Martins getting on the end of a few chances.

 

bang on

 

bollocks

 

people keep mentioning owen doesn't make goals for himself and other such pish, that's not his game - you can't have 11 fast as fuck yet unpredictable nigerians in your teams, you just can't

 

it's an alternative thing imo - the alternatives to playing owen are; to play 4-4-2 with viduka & martins and somehow hope the wingers suddenly start beating people (duff) or being able to cross (jonas) and the midfield remember how to pass or play 4-3-3 with viduka & martins and someone else taking the owen role in between mid/att, i mean who's that gonna be?  smith?  carroll?  do me a fucking favour

 

---viduka------martins---

------------owen-----------

jonas---smith----guthrie

 

not playing that will cost us our league status imo although i'd be willing to accept one of butt/nolan for smith, just even though he's more mobile and looks like he can knock it to another B&W shirt (maybe he's also not as weighed down with the baggage of this season as butt having missed most of it on the pitch)

 

[Tooj]

Something I mentioned on another forum earlier on with regards to Owen.

 

I don't think Owen is as good a finisher as people make out.

 

Far too many times in the last couple of seasons he's missed too many chances that someone who was a world class finisher would have buried. Most of his goals now come from him being able to make decisions and react faster than the defenders around him. Not because of his finishing ability.

 

I also don't think he's mentally strong, as say someone like Shearer was. There always seems to be a nagging doubt about his own ability, he never seems to be very confident anymore when he's in those positions. Plus for some reason as well now his shot is weak as piss.

 

That was all true last season as well but Keegan kept faith and he scored the goals which kept us up. He's useless up front but he offers more as a midfielder than Nolan. There's an argument that Guthrie should play but he doesn't offer a goal threat and hasn't convinced in the pressure games.

 

We definitely need Owen playing against the likes of Burra, Pompey etc, especially in the 4-3-3. It has to be done. As last season proved.