Cronky Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I've often had the feeling that we have a tendency in this country to associate skill with individualism - with a player (usually a winger) beating his man or several and laying on a chance. Other countries tend to rely more on intricate, one-touch passing movements to open things up. That was a striking difference last night between us and the Germans. Several times, when Sturridge had the ball, he chose to advance towards his opponent, as though he was going to try and get past him, even though it was never really on. Most of the time, he had to check and lay the ball off elsewhere, but it made it difficult to build an attack with the sort of rhythm and mutual understanding that you see from the best continental teams. It was like either he, or the team, lacked other ideas. I saw a bit of the U21 game, and Sterling seemed to suffer from the same pattern of thinking. It's a longstanding problem, but I do think the situation is improving. We do have players coming through - Wilshere, Barkley, Oxlade-C - who are a bit more versatile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 we played townsend well last week, he's a piece of piss for foreign (especially international) defences to cope with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I've often had the feeling that we have a tendency in this country to associate skill with individualism - with a player (usually a winger) beating his man or several and laying on a chance. Other countries tend to rely more on intricate, one-touch passing movements to open things up. That was a striking difference last night between us and the Germans. Several times, when Sturridge had the ball, he chose to advance towards his opponent, as though he was going to try and get past him, even though it was never really on. Most of the time, he had to check and lay the ball off elsewhere, but it made it difficult to build an attack with the sort of rhythm and mutual understanding that you see from the best continental teams. It was like either he, or the team, lacked other ideas. I saw a bit of the U21 game, and Sterling seemed to suffer from the same pattern of thinking. It's a longstanding problem, but I do think the situation is improving. We do have players coming through - Wilshere, Barkley, Oxlade-C - who are a bit more versatile. I believe it's worse for the current crop because they have little top level experience be it international or Champions League. Not that the "Golden Generation" where particularly great but they have a particular know-how. This for me is one of the reasons why Cole has to start. Without him the back 4 have probably only played 25 games total in the Champions League. There's players who won't get into the German squad in their mid 20's that have more top level experience than a lot of our lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 we played townsend well last week, he's a piece of piss for foreign (especially international) defences to cope with I'm really confused as to what this is supposed to mean, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 we played townsend well last week, he's a piece of piss for foreign (especially international) defences to cope with I'm really confused as to what this is supposed to mean, like. I'm sure you can get there if you really try dude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 His best games have come against international defences. Why does a defender being foreign make him more adept at nullifying Andros Townsend, anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 going on limited evidence he seems to me to be the type of winger who plays in front of the defence with the ball at his feet, and that's very easy to defend against at european and international level with team that moves off the ball as poorly as england at PL level there's often more space and defenders commit themselves more often when faced with a skillful opponent thus townsend and others can look great in our league and be nullified easily at a higher level with more structured defences - his 'best games' were when no-one knew who he was, if international teams pay attention to him i don't think they'll have a problem with him and by the way i think i said defences, not defenders, implying that on the continent and at international level they defend a different way to in the PL in certain ways he reminds me of gillespie, if gillespie couldn't kick it past the full back and beat him for pace his game was almost done...i see similar in townsend with some more tricks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Don't see the Gillespie comparison at all.... Townsend almost never even tries to go on the outside and almost always tries to cut inside and shoot. It would be actually be good for him if he learned to dribble down the line and put crosses in because its becoming too easy for defenders to show him inside and have the midfielders come across and perform a screen like block. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 gillespie comparison is mainly in the way they play in front of the full back, whether they go in or out it's immaterial if you're always in front Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Until you're in behind, then you're not in front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I'd say Townsend's best games have been in the England matches so far. Whereas in the league he appears to be getting figured out, like against us where we put 2-3 players to cover him when he got the ball. So not quite sure where you're going with this mrmojorisin? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I'd say Townsend's best games have been in the England matches so far. Whereas in the league he appears to be getting figured out, like against us where we put 2-3 players to cover him when he got the ball. So not quite sure where you're going with this mrmojorisin? How many international games has he played? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 the answer is 4 and unless i'm mistaken he had 2 very good games and we've lost the last 2 games in abject fashion alexf tells me the PL has worked him out, yet international and european defences, generally speaking much better than PL defences imo will not work him out? i was responding to some other people saying townsend has "no brains" and another saying we equate skill to individualism not sure why i'm the one being jumped on tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Mojo's run out of steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taps01 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 gillespie comparison is mainly in the way they play in front of the full back, whether they go in or out it's immaterial if you're always in front Describing Gillespie as a winger who plays in front of the full back is probably the worst description of a player i think ive ever heard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Mojo's run out of steam. Hi Inochi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 You're not being jumped on mate Just not sure we can write him off against "international defences" yet when he has done pretty well since bursting on to the international scene, and in all fairness probably our most dangerous player in those games, even the last two that we have lost. Germany of course have a strong defence and they doubled up on him many times last night. But I'd say that highlights England's lack of movement and not exploiting the spaces that opens up for others. Similar to when he played against us and we doubled up first half but then in the second we got stretched and he began to cause Santon all sorts of problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 gillespie comparison is mainly in the way they play in front of the full back, whether they go in or out it's immaterial if you're always in front Describing Gillespie as a winger who plays in front of the full back is probably the worst description of a player i think ive ever heard. What were you doing while I was watching the games then? It's the perfect description of Gillespie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taps01 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 gillespie comparison is mainly in the way they play in front of the full back, whether they go in or out it's immaterial if you're always in front Describing Gillespie as a winger who plays in front of the full back is probably the worst description of a player i think ive ever heard. What were you doing while I was watching the games then? It's the perfect description of Gillespie. Personally i'd describe someone like David Beckham or Nobby Solano as a wide player who plays in front of the full back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 gillespie comparison is mainly in the way they play in front of the full back, whether they go in or out it's immaterial if you're always in front Describing Gillespie as a winger who plays in front of the full back is probably the worst description of a player i think ive ever heard. What were you doing while I was watching the games then? It's the perfect description of Gillespie. Personally i'd describe someone like David Beckham or Nobby Solano as a wide player who plays in front of the full back. Gillespie never had the ball out of his feet until he kicked it past the full back and ran. That was his game, that's why Fergie sold him to us, he was a one trick pony. Same as Townsend, which is where we started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Bit harsh on Townsend, he can go left or right, cross or shoot with both feet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 And by the way, calling a player brainless is ignored, suggesting he's limited in scope is the worst thing in the world. Welcome to No everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taps01 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 gillespie comparison is mainly in the way they play in front of the full back, whether they go in or out it's immaterial if you're always in front Describing Gillespie as a winger who plays in front of the full back is probably the worst description of a player i think ive ever heard. What were you doing while I was watching the games then? It's the perfect description of Gillespie. Personally i'd describe someone like David Beckham or Nobby Solano as a wide player who plays in front of the full back. Gillespie never had the ball out of his feet until he kicked it past the full back and ran. That was his game, that's why Fergie sold him to us, he was a one trick pony. Same as Townsend, which is where we started. Yes they both look to get in BEHIND the full back. Anyway i think Townsed is an okay player but is considered better than he is due to the low opinion of many english players at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 And by the way, calling a player brainless is ignored, suggesting he's limited in scope is the worst thing in the world. Welcome to No everyone. Think it was ignored because it was a stupid comment. He's a young player with a lot to learn but he isn't brainless. He's not James McClean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Yes they both look to get in BEHIND the full back. Anyway i think Townsed is an okay player but is considered better than he is due to the low opinion of many english players at the moment. what i've said in the comparison is that they both play with the ball at their feet then look to kick and run past the fullback, gillespie more outside and townsend uses his trickery to come inside and shoot etc. again reacting to the earlier comment about us equating skill to individualism all of this is why a lot of people couldn't see that anita was a great player until recently, a number of us recognised it but the majority didn't, it's the english way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts