Guest gggg Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 An England manager's essential quality: be different from the last one History shows that the new man at the reins of the national game should have as little in common as possible with his predecessor Continuity, as we know, is the key to success but when it comes to England managers the rule of thumb seems to be to that the new man should have as little in common as possible with his predecessor. When Graham Taylor's reign limped to its close against San Marino the conventional wisdom was clear: here was a man hopelessly out of his depth at international level; what was needed was a master tactician with European experience. Terry Venables fitted the bill perfectly, but when he resigned to spend more time in court with his business affairs the FA realised that they needed to make a clean break and appoint a fresh face with a squeaky-clean image. Glenn Hoddle qualified England for France 98 in style but the team's exit on penalties revealed that the supremely gifted Diamond Lights singer was in fact a deluded crackpot imposing wacky mumbo-jumbo on simple English footballers, and within months he was out. Clearly what was called for was someone who could instil honest English passion into the team. Step forward Mr Motivator, Kevin Keegan. Hang on a minute, this joker knows nothing about the high-intensity chess match of international football. He taught the whole country the meaning of tactical acumen merely by not having any. English spunk was no longer enough. Bring us a sophisticated, cool-headed foreigner, preferably with a Mekon-sized cranium who can steer us to the top of the international pile. Sven-Goran Eriksson, though, not only revealed that he was rubbish at penalties but that he had a Scandinavian enthusiasm for bedroom aerobics. Give us an Englishman, ideally a straightforward northerner, with a face that should inoculate him from trouser-area antics. Steve McClaren turned out to be irredeemably English in his win record – the only continental quirk being his unmanly cowering beneath an umbrella – and having never managed above the North-East Counties Combination League or some such he appeared starstruck among the likes of "Steve G" and "Lamps". This time only a foreigner would do, and not just any foreigner but the best and most foreign foreigner available. A trophy-laden martinet used to putting millionaire players in their place. What? A bull-headed sergeant major who drives his squad out of their minds by locking them up in the middle of nowhere and won't even let them have a beer? Madness! He just doesn't understand our culture, the foreigner, including our minutes-old tradition of anti-racism. What we needed is a passionate Englishman … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The madness of the FA in appointing Eriksson and Capello was never their nationality per se but that they had absolutely no experience of the leagues and environments that their players had grown up within. I've always thought that having an England manager (never mind two of them) with absolutely no experience in the English game was total insanity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Anyone else fucking bored of this shit already? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Its appointing a manager who has the tactics and system that will enable success, not necessarily the best players. There are enough quality players in England to challenge top 4 at every tournament. To be fair, I think Guus Hiddink would be the ideal interim - manager for England. He has worked wonders at short notice before (Australia, Chelsea), is tactically very good (most of the time) and can handle the egos very well. Let him take over for the Euros and then assess what is needed to progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Been bored of it since Euro 96! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Anyone else f***ing bored of this s*** already? It's mind numbing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Anyone else f***ing bored of this s*** already? aye. Have been since about 10 last night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Never understood why if someone is bored of a subject they keep checking in on a thread and even posting, seems like an enormous waste of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Why do you think Keegan struggled so much? I think its a myth that he was quite the disaster or that he was simply not good enough for England. His record of played 18, won 7, drew 7, lost 4, would read quite well if England were a mid-table league side which at the time is what kind of national side we were. I think people forget just how old and tired a side he had inherited. Seaman, Adams, Shearer, Ince, they were all getting old and KK had to try and phase such players out and bring in the new which he did to be fair, picking Owen, Beckham, Scholes, Heskey, Dyer et al and trying to build a team around those kind of young talent. Yes he was tactically niave, but I don't believe he failed because of that, I believe he failed because England at that time as a national side were going through a transitional phase and had some poor choices to select from, in short we were quite poor and that reflected in the results. Probably the manner of some of those results goes against KK but looking back, that was a shite England in the main. What he did do was give his successor the raw materials in the emmerging youth that KK had tried to blood in and develop a team around. His record is much better but Sven was by far the bigger failure for me and so too is Cappello because they had the so-called golden generation and still did fuck all. Qualifying for any tournament in comfort should be the least a nation likes our should expect from our players given they play in one of the best if not best leagues for some of the best sides. I hope whoever gets it next sends the players out to express themeselves and to play with pace, passion and free will because thats what we need. We won't play football like Spain or Brazil but we can do better than we were serving under Cappello and shouldn't be afraid or embarrassed to play our own game to our own strengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Never understood why if someone is bored of a subject they keep checking in on a thread and even posting, seems like an enormous waste of time. Didn't mean the thread, more the wall to wall media coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What he did do was give his successor the raw materials in the emmerging youth that KK had tried to blood in and develop a team around. His record is much better but Sven was by far the bigger failure for me and so too is Cappello because they had the so-called golden generation and still did fuck all. Qualifying for any tournament in comfort should be the least a nation likes our should expect from our players given they play in one of the best if not best leagues for some of the best sides. And yet KK only just managed to get into the playoffs ahead of Poland on goal difference, we finished 9 points behind Sweden, then lost in the playoffs at Wembley to Scotland, were the second worst team in the tournament after the worst German team ever, then started the next qualification group with and another loss at Wembley to Germany. Sven picked up the form dramatically with the same squad to win the group... and the players aren't any better now, just more overpaid and overhyped. I'd take the Euro 00 team before this one everytime actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 http://i42.tinypic.com/15eg6xc.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Oh and Sweden finished last in their group too, they weren't a great team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Giggs? http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/418442_365797293433538_179366112076658_1529605_1865043985_n.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Anyone else f***ing bored of this s*** already? Wish we didn't have to go through the fucking charade when we all know it'll be Redknapp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Anyone else f***ing bored of this s*** already? I was bored of it 10 mins after the story broke tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think its a myth that he was quite the disaster or that he was simply not good enough for England. Get real. He was dismayingly crap as England manager. And worst of all – the last thing I would have expected of him, and defeating the whole fucking point of having KK as England manager – unadventurous in both selections and his approach to matches. England weren't just crap under Keegan, they were dull and uninspired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Nobody from outside England (and ideally the home counties) will be allowed anywhere near the England team for a very long time IMO. When you bomb out of the WC in '14 and reports come out of players disrespecting Redknapp and undermining his authority then the FA will back up a truckload of cash onto the biggest, unemployed foreign manager out there. You did it with Sven, you did it with Capello. You'll do it again. It's a shame that the FA is reactive in these hirings and that they don't possess enough foresight to actually hire the best man for the job, regardless of public opinion. I'll be honest: you look at a team like Liverpool and they've always hired who they thought was best for them, regardless of what the media think. They don't react to the failures by swinging to the opposite side of the pendulum, and they've been moderately successful in spite of the financial constraints that they have. Wat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The exception is Hodgson but over the past 15+ years, they've always appointed someone who they thought was best for them. Like it or not, it's true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The exception is Hodgson but over the past 15+ years, they've always appointed someone who they thought was best for them. Like it or not, it's true. Not sure how that differs from any other club..? Or, how you'd even begin to interpret the logic of any managerial appointments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 If it's any consolation, this exact sort of thing happens with other national teams too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The exception is Hodgson but over the past 15+ years, they've always appointed someone who they thought was best for them. Like it or not, it's true. Not sure I follow this, Pip. Are you saying that other teams don't appoint people that they think are best for them? Eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The Football Association yesterday dismissed concerns that it could be open to charges of hypocrisy over the appointment of interim England manager Stuart Pearce, who had to apologise for racially abusing Paul Ince during a Premier League game in 1994. The England Under-21s manager, who will take over the senior team for this month's friendly against the Netherlands, also has a brother, Dennis, who has stood for election for the far-right British National Party and is a committed supporter of the group. Pearce has distanced himself from his brother's political views. It was John Terry's court case to defend a charge of racial abuse which, when it was postponed until 9 July, began the chain of events that led to Fabio Capello's resignation on Wednesday. The FA board stripped Terry of the captaincy a week ago today when it was decided, chairman David Bernstein said yesterday, that it was "not appropriate" for him to continue in the role with the charge hanging over him. Capello tendered his resignation on Wednesday following a meeting with Bernstein at Wembley. It has since emerged that he was more angered at being left out of the decision-making process than he was at the principle of removing the captaincy from Terry. Last night, however, it was the episode involving Pearce that looked as if it could embarrass the FA. The incident, during a game between Nottingham Forest and Manchester United in December 1994, was acknowledged by the then Forest manager Frank Clark and Sir Alex Ferguson, who later mentioned it in his 1999 autobiography. It is a sign of how attitudes in English football have changed dramatically in the 17 years since that the incident was largely ignored at the time despite the profile of the players, who were both England internationals. There were no charges brought against Pearce. The incident was resolved by Gordon Taylor, the Professional Footballers' Association chief executive, who said at the time that Pearce had acknowledged his mistake. Taylor was quoted in newspaper editions on 21 December 1994 as saying: "Stuart regrets what he has done. He will be ringing Paul to apologise. "Stuart wants to make sure they are back on friendly terms again especially as they are England colleagues. I am sure Terry Venables [the England coach] will be pleased with that. "Stuart regrets what he said. It was said in the heat of the moment. He wants to make sure everybody knows he is sorry and hopefully that will be the end of the matter. I am sure Paul will accept the apology in the manner in which it is intended." When the FA was reminded of the incident at yesterday's press conference at Wembley it appeared to take some of the executives by surprise. Adrian Bevington, the managing director of Club England, said: "We're not going to go back over extensive grounds today in that respect. Stuart's position in regard to issues around his brother I can talk about. I certainly can't talk about the comment you're raising there." Bernstein also conceded that the FA's search for a new manager could lead it to appoint one coach for the Euro 2012 tournament in the summer as a temporary measure and then another for the qualification campaign for the 2014 World Cup finals. Bernstein said: "All options are open. I am only talking common sense. We are not prepared to restrict ourselves at this stage. He might be English, he might be British, he might not be, he might be for the Euros only, he might be long-term. We need to look at all the options." The embarrassment caused to Pearce by the activities of his brother has been a long-standing issue for the Under-21s manager and he has said categorically in the past that he does not share his brother's views. He has been quoted as saying: "My brother's political views are his own and are not in anyway reflected in my own views." Bernstein said yesterday: "We've made it clear as an organisation. There have been a few newspaper reports, previously, where Stuart has been asked this specific question and Stuart has made it clear that he is not involved in his brother's political beliefs, in the same way as I'm sure that everybody who has siblings does not always share their political stance. It's a matter for Stuart Pearce's brother rather than Stuart, we would suggest." Unfortunately for Stuart, his brother has been an active member of the BNP. He has stood for election three times, once as an MP in the South-west Norfolk constituency. He also stood for election as a London MEP and for a seat in the London Assembly. In 2008, Dennis was quoted by The People as saying that he supported the BNP's manifesto "completely". Dennis, one of Stuart's two brothers, both older than him, said: "The country is full up. There are too many people here. It's time to shut the door on immigrants. Immigration isn't helping crime rates drop, that's for sure. "I served in the Army. It was about fighting communism, because communists stopped freedom of speech. I'm fighting for the same with the BNP. This is a Christian country. Islam is not compatible with this country." Saying sorry: Pearce's apology to Ince The Daily Telegraph, 21 December 1994 Stuart Pearce, the England defender and Nottingham Forest captain, is to apologise to Paul Ince, his international colleague, for allegedly making racist comments. Pearce was said to have made the comments during Forest's 2-1 win at Old Trafford on Saturday, United's first home defeat of the season. Yesterday Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, said: "I have spoken to Stuart and he will be ringing Paul to apologise. "The PFA is determined to eradicate any form of racism in the game and is currently in the second season of a campaign geared to combat the problem." Taylor added: "Stuart wants to make sure they are back on friendly terms again especially as they are England colleagues. I am sure Terry Venables [the England coach] will be pleased with that. "Stuart regrets what he said. It was said in the heat of the moment. He wants to make sure everybody knows he is sorry and hopefully that will be the end of the matter. I am sure Paul will accept the apology in the manner in which it is intended." Fucking hell..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Disagree with HTT about Eriksson being the biggest failure. I actually rated him. We were unlucky at all of the tournaments that he was manager of. Ronaldinho 2002, Rooney getting injured and penalties 2004, Rooney sent off and penalties 2006, all at the quarter iirc (from memory, may be slightly inaccurate). and although maybe he looked like he didnt care enough/we didnt play great football, when the fuck have we played well? one thing that was strange was walcott in 2006 and if sven did decide just to not bother playing him, its a ridiculous decision, but I've heard the FA told him not to play him, he then told someone about this after the tournament and his job was over within a few days (I only heard that a couple days ago, may be bullshit) sven was harshly treated imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 If Sven was a failure we've only had one manager who wasn't. Sir Bobby and Venables got the semis, but Euro 88 was a farce and Venables had the advantage of playing every game at Wembley. We've only won 3 knockout games in normal time since the 60's, against Denmark, Paraguay and Ecuador, two of those were under Sven. We're no footballing power, getting to the quarters consistently away from home is well above our average. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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