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The England Thread

Pilko

by Pilko
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madras

madras

Posted
Posted

See, there's a lad with some humility. Some of the arrogant bastards on here could learn from Hakka.

i got my "s*** i was thinking about something else and admit it" in first.

 

 

edit....also "oh the irony"

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Cronky

Cronky

Posted
Posted

Capello was doing very well right up until the World Cup finals, and apart from last night, the performances haven't been that bad since.

 

I think he made mistakes during the World Cup, in that the boot-camp atmosphere didn't suit the players. However, there were other things - principally Rooney's loss of form - that were beyond his control. Either way, he should be given the chance to learn from those experiences and have a crack at another tournament.

 

I've seen so many England managers struggle over the years, despite their good records at club level. Our only successful one, Ramsey, had the advantage of playing at home during a World Cup. It's a difficult job for all sorts of reasons, and changing things now just feels like panic.

 

I see what you're saying, but to be honest you can't excuse how woeful we were during the World Cup.  There is no point in storming through the qualifiers to serve up dog shit when in the real tournament.  We hardly had a tough qualifying group anyway. Most of what went wrong in the World Cup you could argue was due to stubbornness from Capello.  You say he can learn from this, but I don't think he will.  He is too stubborn to be dynamic and adaptive with England imo, however I hope he proves me wrong on that. 

 

For what it's worth I don't think we struggled with Hoddle or Eriksson at the helm.  Both managers got far in tournaments and mostly it was down to bad luck, red cards (Beckham, Rooney etc.) and finally penalties that put us out.  Only Brazil 2002 World Cup were we beaten, and even that was a bit of tremendous luck/skill from Ronaldinho to kill us off.  Even in that tournament we were better than we were in 2010. You could argue that Capello had a stronger team than both Hoddle and Eriksson had and with that he served up the worst football ever when it was the 2010 finals.

 

I want to be proven wrong for thinking that Capello is no longer the right man.  Before the World Cup I firmly believed he was the right calibre of manager, a true World Class manager.  But his formula has not worked when we needed it most.  If he takes that form in to the qualifiers than what hope have we got for him getting it right in the Euro 2012 finals.  Rooney's form is a blow, but he should be big enough to drop him and put someone in who is playing well.  Rooney may even benefit coming off the bench late on in his current situation for all we know.

 

Yes, we were terrible at the World Cup, particularly considering the squad we had, which I still believe was the best we've had for many years.

 

I don't think the squad was prepared correctly. After a long, hard season, the players needed to relax and re-charge, but instead they were worked too hard. Also while Italian players may be used to that isolated, disciplined routine, English players are not and I suspect that boredom became a problem as well. Some of our players - Rooney in particular - heaped a lot of pressure on themselves beforehand by appearing in adverts which portrayed them as superstars, and didn't look mentally ready for the reality of a contest. Capello didn't recognise that danger in advance, and warn the players off too much exposure.

 

My point is that rather than sack the manager for all that, why not give him a chance to learn from those errors, if he still has an appetite and the nerve for the job? We seem to have a very unconstructive attitude in this country to failure.

 

In terms of his other qualities - team selection and tactics - Capello has been sound. We'd all do things a bit differently - particularly with hindsight - but he hasn't suddenly become useless. However, he hadn't ever taken a team to a large international tournament before, and it's within that context that he made mistakes. Assuming we qualify for 2012, why stick in another manager who's inexperienced at tournament level, when we have one who has already learned a few things - albeit the hard way?

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hakka

hakka

Posted
Posted

Capello was doing very well right up until the World Cup finals, and apart from last night, the performances haven't been that bad since.

 

I think he made mistakes during the World Cup, in that the boot-camp atmosphere didn't suit the players. However, there were other things - principally Rooney's loss of form - that were beyond his control. Either way, he should be given the chance to learn from those experiences and have a crack at another tournament.

 

I've seen so many England managers struggle over the years, despite their good records at club level. Our only successful one, Ramsey, had the advantage of playing at home during a World Cup. It's a difficult job for all sorts of reasons, and changing things now just feels like panic.

 

I see what you're saying, but to be honest you can't excuse how woeful we were during the World Cup.  There is no point in storming through the qualifiers to serve up dog shit when in the real tournament.  We hardly had a tough qualifying group anyway. Most of what went wrong in the World Cup you could argue was due to stubbornness from Capello.  You say he can learn from this, but I don't think he will.  He is too stubborn to be dynamic and adaptive with England imo, however I hope he proves me wrong on that. 

 

For what it's worth I don't think we struggled with Hoddle or Eriksson at the helm.  Both managers got far in tournaments and mostly it was down to bad luck, red cards (Beckham, Rooney etc.) and finally penalties that put us out.  Only Brazil 2002 World Cup were we beaten, and even that was a bit of tremendous luck/skill from Ronaldinho to kill us off.  Even in that tournament we were better than we were in 2010. You could argue that Capello had a stronger team than both Hoddle and Eriksson had and with that he served up the worst football ever when it was the 2010 finals.

 

I want to be proven wrong for thinking that Capello is no longer the right man.  Before the World Cup I firmly believed he was the right calibre of manager, a true World Class manager.  But his formula has not worked when we needed it most.  If he takes that form in to the qualifiers than what hope have we got for him getting it right in the Euro 2012 finals.  Rooney's form is a blow, but he should be big enough to drop him and put someone in who is playing well.  Rooney may even benefit coming off the bench late on in his current situation for all we know.

 

Yes, we were terrible at the World Cup, particularly considering the squad we had, which I still believe was the best we've had for many years.

 

I don't think the squad was prepared correctly. After a long, hard season, the players needed to relax and re-charge, but instead they were worked too hard. Also while Italian players may be used to that isolated, disciplined routine, English players are not and I suspect that boredom became a problem as well. Some of our players - Rooney in particular - heaped a lot of pressure on themselves beforehand by appearing in adverts which portrayed them as superstars, and didn't look mentally ready for the reality of a contest. Capello didn't recognise that danger in advance, and warn the players off too much exposure.

 

My point is that rather than sack the manager for all that, why not give him a chance to learn from those errors, if he still has an appetite and the nerve for the job? We seem to have a very unconstructive attitude in this country to failure.

 

In terms of his other qualities - team selection and tactics - Capello has been sound. We'd all do things a bit differently - particularly with hindsight - but he hasn't suddenly become useless. However, he hadn't ever taken a team to a large international tournament before, and it's within that context that he made mistakes. Assuming we qualify for 2012, why stick in another manager who's inexperienced at tournament level, when we have one who has already learned a few things - albeit the hard way?

 

A very sensible response, thought the bit in bold was very good.  The rest I'm not so sure about.  He doesn't appear to be learning from those mistakes (yet) and I disagree that his tactics and team selections have been sound.  In fact I think his tactics have been stale and unimaginative.  His team selections have been very naive at times by ignoring form and playing people out of position sometimes.  I guess we will have to see.

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  • 4 weeks later...
ponsaelius

ponsaelius

Posted
Posted

France squad:

 

Goalkeepers: Cedric Carrasso (Bordeaux), Hugo Lloris (Olympique Lyon), Steve Mandanda (Olympique Marseille

 

Defenders: Anthony Reveillere (Olympique Lyon), Gael Clichy (Arsenal), Philippe Mexes (AS Roma), Adil Rami (Lille), Mamadou Sakho (Paris St Germain), Bacary Sagna (Arsenal), Eric Abidal (Barcelona)

 

Midfielders: Alou Diarra (Bordeaux), Yohan Cabaye (Lille), Yoann Gourcuff (Lyon), Yann Mvila (Stade Rennes), Samir Nasri (Arsenal)

 

Forwards: Karim Benzema (Real Madrid), Kevin Gameiro (Lorient), Guillaume Hoarau (Paris St Germain), Florent Malouda (Chelsea), Loic Remy (Olympique Marseille), Mathieu Valbuena (Olympique Marseille), Dimitri Payet (St Etienne)

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WarrenBartonCentrePartin

WarrenBartonCentrePartin

Posted
Posted

France squad:

 

Goalkeepers: Cedric Carrasso (Bordeaux), Hugo Lloris (Olympique Lyon), Steve Mandanda (Olympique Marseille

 

Defenders: Anthony Reveillere (Olympique Lyon), Gael Clichy (Arsenal), Philippe Mexes (AS Roma), Adil Rami (Lille), Mamadou Sakho (Paris St Germain), Bacary Sagna (Arsenal), Eric Abidal (Barcelona)

 

Midfielders: Alou Diarra (Bordeaux), Yohan Cabaye (Lille), Yoann Gourcuff (Lyon), Yann Mvila (Stade Rennes), Samir Nasri (Arsenal)

 

Forwards: Karim Benzema (Real Madrid), Kevin Gameiro (Lorient), Guillaume Hoarau (Paris St Germain), Florent Malouda (Chelsea), Loic Remy (Olympique Marseille), Mathieu Valbuena (Olympique Marseille), Dimitri Payet (St Etienne)

showing my ignorance here, but I used to know most of the France squad.  None of those in bold I've ever heard of.
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SEMTEX

SEMTEX

Posted
Posted

I would concur that I don't know who your boldys are, apart from Valbuena, you should know who he is, given that appeared in the WC. Saying that, no doubt one of the other boldys has.

 

I'm not sure if I would've known who the also-rans in the France WC winning squad was, before the WC. Sounds like an afternoon project for me.

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Hughesy

Hughesy

Posted
Posted

France squad:

 

Goalkeepers: Cedric Carrasso (Bordeaux), Hugo Lloris (Olympique Lyon), Steve Mandanda (Olympique Marseille

 

Defenders: Anthony Reveillere (Olympique Lyon), Gael Clichy (Arsenal), Philippe Mexes (AS Roma), Adil Rami (Lille), Mamadou Sakho (Paris St Germain), Bacary Sagna (Arsenal), Eric Abidal (Barcelona)

 

Midfielders: Alou Diarra (Bordeaux), Yohan Cabaye (Lille), Yoann Gourcuff (Lyon), Yann Mvila (Stade Rennes), Samir Nasri (Arsenal)

 

Forwards: Karim Benzema (Real Madrid), Kevin Gameiro (Lorient), Guillaume Hoarau (Paris St Germain), Florent Malouda (Chelsea), Loic Remy (Olympique Marseille), Mathieu Valbuena (Olympique Marseille), Dimitri Payet (St Etienne)

showing my ignorance here, but I used to know most of the France squad.  None of those in bold I've ever heard of.

 

You clearly need to start playing football manager...!!

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