Colocho Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It's true: from an ownership standpoint, the benefits of placing a few places higher in the Premiership are disproportionately miniscule compared to the money you'd need to spend to do so. Yip. The big mular for football clubs comes from TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorship etc. The 500k or so each place is worth in terms of prize money is miniscule in the grander scheme of things. It's something that I honestly think is going to happen with every club in the league pretty much. Man United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea have the funding to splash big, Arsenal and Spurs are ran well enough as businesses to cling onto their tails. Everybody else is set to be stuck behind a glass ceiling that is pointless to try and break through, because it would take an absolute fortune just to get close. Look at Villa for example, they're seemingly cutting their cloth accordingly now. 2 biggest players out for close to £40 million, one replacement in - now McLeish has been told to work with what he's got. The depressing reality is the league is going to be completely split in two from now on and the big money men are heading abroad to purchase clubs where success is easier to buy. Where do you think our TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorship money etc is going? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Back to championship for the man of the people then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm not overly concerned with the clubs desire not to offer him a new deal, but to give him away is just naive. He plays a part in this team with good crossing and committed performances. He's no world beater and in time I can see Cabaye being twice the player of Barton. In many ways I think one year suits us well, keep him in there to keep the team spirit high while bedding in the new players, then at the end of the year we offer him a lower deal or he choses to leave and we replace him. Would have been the ideal situation given the circumstances of the last few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Many thanks for putting a much needed positive spin on this whole farce. You're bang on in every respect. Depressing as fuck to think he'll not be replaced though. Cheers. I wouldn't say it's a positive spin, more a cynical look at where we are as a football club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It's true: from an ownership standpoint, the benefits of placing a few places higher in the Premiership are disproportionately miniscule compared to the money you'd need to spend to do so. Yip. The big mular for football clubs comes from TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorship etc. The 500k or so each place is worth in terms of prize money is miniscule in the grander scheme of things. It's something that I honestly think is going to happen with every club in the league pretty much. Man United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea have the funding to splash big, Arsenal and Spurs are ran well enough as businesses to cling onto their tails. Everybody else is set to be stuck behind a glass ceiling that is pointless to try and break through, because it would take an absolute fortune just to get close. Look at Villa for example, they're seemingly cutting their cloth accordingly now. 2 biggest players out for close to £40 million, one replacement in - now McLeish has been told to work with what he's got. The depressing reality is the league is going to be completely split in two from now on and the big money men are heading abroad to purchase clubs where success is easier to buy. Where do you think our TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorship money etc is going? On the roulette table innit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It's true: from an ownership standpoint, the benefits of placing a few places higher in the Premiership are disproportionately miniscule compared to the money you'd need to spend to do so. Yip. The big mular for football clubs comes from TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorship etc. The 500k or so each place is worth in terms of prize money is miniscule in the grander scheme of things. It's something that I honestly think is going to happen with every club in the league pretty much. Man United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea have the funding to splash big, Arsenal and Spurs are ran well enough as businesses to cling onto their tails. Everybody else is set to be stuck behind a glass ceiling that is pointless to try and break through, because it would take an absolute fortune just to get close. Look at Villa for example, they're seemingly cutting their cloth accordingly now. 2 biggest players out for close to £40 million, one replacement in - now McLeish has been told to work with what he's got. The depressing reality is the league is going to be completely split in two from now on and the big money men are heading abroad to purchase clubs where success is easier to buy. Honestly, if you look at transfer activity outside of the top six (or top five even, don't think Spurs' moment in the sun is going to last much longer,) it's like everyone has just given up. Trying to fluke a CL place was a valid strategy when the "elite" was only four teams. Good luck with that now. Wish Arabs would just buy everyone or something. Just to make it fair.Don't give a shit about doing things "the right way" anymore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm not overly concerned with the clubs desire not to offer him a new deal, but to give him away is just naive. He plays a part in this team with good crossing and committed performances. He's no world beater and in time I can see Cabaye being twice the player of Barton. In many ways I think one year suits us well, keep him in there to keep the team spirit high while bedding in the new players, then at the end of the year we offer him a lower deal or he choses to leave and we replace him. Would have been the ideal situation given the circumstances of the last few months. Would have been the sensible approach for me yes. Think most would understand us being unwilling to offer him what he wants on a long term deal. To push him out a year early is underestimating the potential benefits of keeping him around quite largely id say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If Barton didn't have a lot of previous there'd be a ton of clubs going for him. Clubs are staying away because of his reputation and they're afraid he'll unsettle things, not because of his ability as a player. No top club would go near him, man, and it's nothing to do with his repuation. I don't understand how people can watch the likes of Man United play the other night, or Arsenal and Spurs at their best and think he could fit into their midfields. He'd be a fish out of water, man. I'm surprised somebody like Stoke or another mid-table club hasn't put the cash up for him, mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was just starting to be at ease with this transfer window and what we had going into the season. Sigh. I think Barton is a decent player who's ability level is exaggerated by many on here and also by himself. It speaks volumes that the only club that has come in for him is QPR. He's not the quickest, can't really dribble, his short passing game and composure on the ball when in the middle of the park is actually very poor. I like him as a character and as a player, but really his performances over the last year have come by playing him in a position that utilised the qualities he does have to the maximum. As much as some on here seem set on playing him there, he's NOT a good central midfielder. He's not versatile and he's not a dynamic footballer, which is why I found his agent, those on here and the media spouting off about how he will go to a top 7 team quite bizarre. That being said, take him out of the side and it leaves a gaping hole down the right hand side of a settled team. The hole he leaves is similar to the one we have at left back and the one we have upfront, frankly we can't afford to weaken the team any further. You know what you're going to get from him and that's a solid performer who is vocal on the pitch and can hold the team together. Losing him without a direct, sure-fire, like for like replacement is just yet further gambling by those at the top. We're going to be nowhere near relegation and I still remain confident we'll see 2 players coming in...but it's pretty depressing that mid-table is about the best we can expect this season. I guess it makes sense to an extent, the only way you're going to get top 6 is by spending a shitload of money and the positions 7th-17th are much as a muchness to Ashley. Aslong as he can keep us in the league why should he give a f*** as a businessman to try and invest and push us a couple of places higher. The prick. Top post It's true: from an ownership standpoint, the benefits of placing a few places higher in the Premiership are disproportionately miniscule compared to the money you'd need to spend to do so. Near 1m per league position isnt it. So finish 3 places higher with Barton than without & he pays off his contract + more. Keep in mind that 3 more points last season & we'd have been on the same points total as the team 4 places higher up. Thats ignoring the potential for a better squad to do better in cups and earn more again by getting further. Also the benefit of just generally having our club do better all round in terms of how that affects the way other players & our own would feel about our potential to achieve. It's a crapshot. No single player is going to guarantee a higher league finish and with most "good" players costing close to 10m or more, it's just not worth it. The idea of gradual progress is also completely and utterly pointless. There's a big fucking concrete wall staring us in the face and nobody is getting past it without plunking 50m+ in a single summer, regardless of how many best practices they've employed over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm not overly concerned with the clubs desire not to offer him a new deal, but to give him away is just naive. He plays a part in this team with good crossing and committed performances. He's no world beater and in time I can see Cabaye being twice the player of Barton. In many ways I think one year suits us well, keep him in there to keep the team spirit high while bedding in the new players, then at the end of the year we offer him a lower deal or he choses to leave and we replace him. I think team spirit might be better once he goes. Not to say he wasn't good previously in that aspect, but the changes to the squad have clearly rankled him and it might be better to build a team spirit around different characters who don't have as much animosity to their employers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ykmkmdd Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Honestly, if you look at transfer activity outside of the top six (or top five even, don't think Spurs' moment in the sun is going to last much longer,) it's like everyone has just given up. Trying to fluke a CL place was a valid strategy when the "elite" was only four teams. Good luck with that now. That's an excellent point - was looking at the transfers of every club a couple of days ago and was amazed how little movement there's been outside of the CL clubs - we've already brought in more than most..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It's true: from an ownership standpoint, the benefits of placing a few places higher in the Premiership are disproportionately miniscule compared to the money you'd need to spend to do so. Yip. The big mular for football clubs comes from TV revenue, ticket sales, sponsorship etc. The 500k or so each place is worth in terms of prize money is miniscule in the grander scheme of things. It's something that I honestly think is going to happen with every club in the league pretty much. Man United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea have the funding to splash big, Arsenal and Spurs are ran well enough as businesses to cling onto their tails. Everybody else is set to be stuck behind a glass ceiling that is pointless to try and break through, because it would take an absolute fortune just to get close. Look at Villa for example, they're seemingly cutting their cloth accordingly now. 2 biggest players out for close to £40 million, one replacement in - now McLeish has been told to work with what he's got. The depressing reality is the league is going to be completely split in two from now on and the big money men are heading abroad to purchase clubs where success is easier to buy. Honestly, if you look at transfer activity outside of the top six (or top five even, don't think Spurs' moment in the sun is going to last much longer,) it's like everyone has just given up. Trying to fluke a CL place was a valid strategy when the "elite" was only four teams. Good luck with that now. Wish Arabs would just buy everyone or something. Just to make it fair. Honestly wish we'd just get bought by Arabs. Don't give a shit about doing things "the right way" anymore Wouldn't be half as fun though. Who would exchange the roller coaster of the Toon, which can take you from derby day joy to the deepest darkest chasms of despair in just 3 days, for relative stability, a bottomless pit of money, world class players and the prospect of major trophies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 tink this is accurate..... `I think Barton is a decent player who's ability level is exaggerated by many on here and also by himself. It speaks volumes that the only club that has come in for him is QPR. He's not the quickest, can't really dribble, his short passing game and composure on the ball when in the middle of the park is actually very poor. I like him as a character and as a player, but really his performances over the last year have come by playing him in a position that utilised the qualities he does have to the maximum. As much as some on here seem set on playing him there, he's NOT a good central midfielder. He's not versatile and he's not a dynamic footballer, which is why I found his agent, those on here and the media spouting off about how he will go to a top 7 team quite bizarre.` suprising as it was posted by a gobshite. However if obertan was his replacement then i am very underwhelmed. Barnetta plz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was talking about this with my mackem mate the other night, he basically says he's given up on football because it's impossible for clubs like ours to progress. I'm still not sure I believe that entirely, and we'll see the effect of financial fair play, but it doesn't look rosy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If Barton didn't have a lot of previous there'd be a ton of clubs going for him. Clubs are staying away because of his reputation and they're afraid he'll unsettle things, not because of his ability as a player. No top club would go near him, man, and it's nothing to do with his repuation. I don't understand how people can watch the likes of Man United play the other night, or Arsenal and Spurs at their best and think he could fit into their midfields. He'd be a fish out of water, man. I'm surprised somebody like Stoke or another mid-table club hasn't put the cash up for him, mind. I think that may be the simple reason, asking for too much cash. It was obvious when this first blew up Bartons agent was expecting clubs to be tripping over each other to get him for free competing with each other in an auction type situation where Barton gets a fabulous deal, instead the big clubs no interest, not good enough for them. And Mid table? He's on a big salary here and its reasonable to think he may want an increase so if he's on 50-60k a week here (conservatively thinking) then would a Stoke etc really pay him over 60k a week? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 tink this is accurate..... `I think Barton is a decent player who's ability level is exaggerated by many on here and also by himself. It speaks volumes that the only club that has come in for him is QPR. He's not the quickest, can't really dribble, his short passing game and composure on the ball when in the middle of the park is actually very poor. I like him as a character and as a player, but really his performances over the last year have come by playing him in a position that utilised the qualities he does have to the maximum. As much as some on here seem set on playing him there, he's NOT a good central midfielder. He's not versatile and he's not a dynamic footballer, which is why I found his agent, those on here and the media spouting off about how he will go to a top 7 team quite bizarre.` suprising as it was posted by a gobshite. However if obertan was his replacement then i am very underwhelmed. Barnetta plz. Learn to qoute man! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was talking about this with my mackem mate the other night, he basically says he's given up on football because it's impossible for clubs like ours to progress. I'm still not sure I believe that entirely, and we'll see the effect of financial fair play, but it doesn't look rosy. Financial fair play with man city's £400m sponsorship deal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was talking about this with my mackem mate the other night, he basically says he's given up on football because it's impossible for clubs like ours to progress. I'm still not sure I believe that entirely, and we'll see the effect of financial fair play, but it doesn't look rosy. IMO I don't really mind. For me Newcastle has always been like this and I'll enjoy every matchday as it comes without particularly worrying about where we finish at the end of the season. As long as we don't get relegated it's fine and if we do better than expected that's a nice bonus. Couldn't care less who actually wins the title, or about the entire Champions League for that matter. Might as well be a completely different sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 tink this is accurate..... `I think Barton is a decent player who's ability level is exaggerated by many on here and also by himself. It speaks volumes that the only club that has come in for him is QPR. He's not the quickest, can't really dribble, his short passing game and composure on the ball when in the middle of the park is actually very poor. I like him as a character and as a player, but really his performances over the last year have come by playing him in a position that utilised the qualities he does have to the maximum. As much as some on here seem set on playing him there, he's NOT a good central midfielder. He's not versatile and he's not a dynamic footballer, which is why I found his agent, those on here and the media spouting off about how he will go to a top 7 team quite bizarre.` suprising as it was posted by a gobshite. That one been bubbling up inside? How am I a gobshite? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm not overly concerned with the clubs desire not to offer him a new deal, but to give him away is just naive. He plays a part in this team with good crossing and committed performances. He's no world beater and in time I can see Cabaye being twice the player of Barton. In many ways I think one year suits us well, keep him in there to keep the team spirit high while bedding in the new players, then at the end of the year we offer him a lower deal or he choses to leave and we replace him. I think team spirit might be better once he goes. Not to say he wasn't good previously in that aspect, but the changes to the squad have clearly rankled him and it might be better to build a team spirit around different characters who don't have as much animosity to their employers. Were you watching the scenes at SOL Saturday? Barton is a key player in the dressing room. I can't see any of his teammates celebrating him going. Yes he causes trouble on the pitch, but often in a backwards way that can bond a squad more than you would think. Obviously those incidents have stopped bigger clubs coming in for him, on top of the fact he's not as wonderful as he perceives. Right now he's in a similar position to his good friend Nolan. He can either stay and try to earn a contract (all be it on much lower wages) and enjoy his football, or he can drop down the league for more money and a longer deal. That's not disrespectful to QPR, they will be in a relegation battle this year and I think that's exactly where he doesn't want to be. If he has any sense he'll reject any offer they make because this season we actually have some quality in the middle of the park, it's not just Tiote. With Cabaye, Marveaux and players like that I expect us to actually start playing the ball around with a much more cultured approach. I think he'd compliment that well with his unique style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I was talking about this with my mackem mate the other night, he basically says he's given up on football because it's impossible for clubs like ours to progress. I'm still not sure I believe that entirely, and we'll see the effect of financial fair play, but it doesn't look rosy. Selling players like Andy Carroll doesn't help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 tink this is accurate..... `I think Barton is a decent player who's ability level is exaggerated by many on here and also by himself. It speaks volumes that the only club that has come in for him is QPR. He's not the quickest, can't really dribble, his short passing game and composure on the ball when in the middle of the park is actually very poor. I like him as a character and as a player, but really his performances over the last year have come by playing him in a position that utilised the qualities he does have to the maximum. As much as some on here seem set on playing him there, he's NOT a good central midfielder. He's not versatile and he's not a dynamic footballer, which is why I found his agent, those on here and the media spouting off about how he will go to a top 7 team quite bizarre.` suprising as it was posted by a gobshite. However if obertan was his replacement then i am very underwhelmed. Barnetta plz. Barton has got brilliant technical ability but he lets himself down with his mental state on the pitch. When he's not focused or trying too hard his delivery becomes erratic and he tries way too many risky "hollywood" passes, which basically screws the entire team as delivering accurate passes is what he's there for. There's few better midfielders in the Premiership when he's on his game but that doesn't happen with any degree of consistency. I'm not too bothered about losing him, particularly since he seems to be a divisive figure in the dressing room, but I'm more generally concerned with selling any players at all given our chronic inability to actually negotiate transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If Barton didn't have a lot of previous there'd be a ton of clubs going for him. Clubs are staying away because of his reputation and they're afraid he'll unsettle things, not because of his ability as a player. No top club would go near him, man, and it's nothing to do with his repuation. I don't understand how people can watch the likes of Man United play the other night, or Arsenal and Spurs at their best and think he could fit into their midfields. He'd be a fish out of water, man. I'm surprised somebody like Stoke or another mid-table club hasn't put the cash up for him, mind. He's not top 4 material, no one is saying he is. He's good enough for the likes of Everton, Villa, Bolton etc though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Jonas started here as a RM, so he could replace him on the right. Ba Ben Arfa Marveaux Tiote Cabaye Jonas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Jonas started here as a RM, so he could replace him on the right. Ba Ben Arfa Marveaux Tiote Cabaye Jonas Jonas played on the left on his debut against Man Utd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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