TRon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 We should have had more than enough quality to beat forest regardless. They are not performing to their full ability recently atall & there more to it than just lovenkrands being shoved on the wing. When people talk about the quality of our players, which ones are they referring to exactly? I'm struggling to name more than three who have looked any better than the opposition in their respective positions in this league. Well thats the whole point isnt it, that the players we have are better than what theyve shown this season. Guthrie, Barton, Jonas, smith, Nolan is a better midfield than any other championship side has available to them on paper. They've also individually put in performances, showing this is true in different games. None of them have been consistant, bar smith. Our midfield should be our strongest area in this league, so we are massively underperforming if we're not dominating the opposition in midfield. Then you add in Jose, Colo & Taylor. Harper behind them. Our foward line is our weakest area & Carroll/Ameobi had been stepping up pretty well until recently. We've actually been pretty awful since signing Harewood tbh. Anyway, this group of players should be far better than near every other side in this divison. Some are underperforming & recently most of them are. Doesnt mean they're all rubbish suddenly & the same standard as the opposition, it means theyre underperforming. Based on their reputations, we should never have got relegated last season as teams like Stoke and Hull had supposedly much weaker squads. Incidentally I don't think we are rubbish any more than we are "far better" than most other teams. I would say we are better than some sides but not by much, and there are quite a few teams in this league who have better midfielders than us, which might give a clue why we look second best sometimes. You say that midfield is our strongest area, I disagree. I think Nolan is too slow, we don't have effective wide players and Guthrie has failed to dominate any game this season. Only Smith has done a consistent job for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Theres more to getting relegated though than simply players not being very good. It isnt as simple as x fails so x is a rubbish footballer. X might not be playing at his best & it is down to the management that he does. Last season was a massive example of players underperforming, more than anyone being massively rubbish, we certainly didnt have a team who playing atleast at half of their ability would have been relegated. But we had a side who were massively effected by the crap from last season, who all felt the pressure and had their confidence effected by that & who all played close to their worst football for us. Nolan wasnt to slow the day he got a hattrick or set up several goals that helped take us to being the only side in the league who had scored in every game a couple of games ago. Guthrie has put in better performances in the premiership than he has been in the championship recently. It seems pretty obvious to me that they can do better than they are. We look second best in midfield because our tactics have been shocking & theyve been underperforming along with that/because of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Theres more to getting relegated though than simply players not being very good. It isnt as simple as x fails so x is a rubbish footballer. X might not be playing at his best & it is down to the management that he does. Last season was a massive example of players underperforming, more than anyone being massively rubbish, we certainly didnt have a team who playing atleast at half of their ability would have been relegated. But we had a side who were massively effected by the crap from last season, who all felt the pressure and had their confidence effected by that & who all played close to their worst football for us. Nolan wasnt to slow the day he got a hattrick or set up several goals that helped take us to being the only side in the league who had scored in every game a couple of games ago. Guthrie has put in better performances in the premiership than he has been in the championship recently. It seems pretty obvious to me that they can do better than they are. We look second best in midfield because our tactics have been shocking & theyve been underperforming along with that/because of that. Nolan is clearly past it and as a result a poorer footballer. The same with Nicky Butt. I agree things at mangement and board level affect things to a large degree. But to deny the fact we have players in midfield who are woeful seems a tad optimistic. The hat trick in question happened in a game against arguably the poorest side in the league. Fielding past it players such as Geremi, Butt, Nolan and Harewood means a distinct lack of quality is present imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 He's had a part in us scoring a goal in most of the games up till now, whether he got it or was involved in the setup. He's not past it. He's a slower player who needs to be played behind the front men & be making deeper runs into the box for crosses etc. Probably works best when theres two big lads upfront worrying the defence enough & he gets lots of space. If he's marked he'll be put out of the game easily. But he'll get useful goals for us & set some up also. Again id put our recent results far more down to tactics/confidence/whatever than the players being played. They should be more than good enough, if they're not the reason why needs to be sorted. Not them being replaced, we have no one substantially better who'll effect these games much more atall. The entire team needs to step up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nolan is a very effective player in this league if things are going well for the side and we are dominating possession. but he is so slow and unwieldy that, when we're not on the front foot, 90% of the game passes him by. can we afford to keep a virtual pedestrian in the side when our movement and retention in general is so poor? on the other hand, can we afford to keep someone with good end product out the side when we struggle for goals? Ideally we would surround him with quick, sprightly players so that his cumbersome style isnt a burden, but we've not really got any of those types at hand. With Nolan I think we'd need a proper manager/innovator to find the right system to fit him into, as Keegan did, for example, with Owen when he looked finished. I don't think Hughton is the guy to do that, not to mention his questionable motivational and leadership skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikri Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Considering how he's got a team of seasoned professionals to forget the absolute basics like how to pass to team mates or how to move into space I'm not sure about having Hughton as a coach let alone as a manager. If the players are simply ignoring what he's telling them then he lacks the command needed in the dressing room to be a manager. If the players are actually doing what he's telling them then he clearly has no idea what he's doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 He's had a part in us scoring a goal in most of the games up till now, whether he got it or was involved in the setup. He's not past it. He's a slower player who needs to be played behind the front men & be making deeper runs into the box for crosses etc. Probably works best when theres two big lads upfront worrying the defence enough & he gets lots of space. If he's marked he'll be put out of the game easily. But he'll get useful goals for us & set some up also. Again id put our recent results far more down to tactics/confidence/whatever than the players being played. They should be more than good enough, if they're not the reason why needs to be sorted. Not them being replaced, we have no one substantially better who'll effect these games much more atall. The entire team needs to step up. Upping your game and plenty of huff and puff only get you so far. I think its pretty clear that Nolan has been a shadow of the player he once was at Bolton. Nolan aside, the quality in midfield i still abysmal. Butt? Past it. Smith? Has played well in spells but only really good for kicking people. Geremi. Terrible. Barton? Least said about him the better. Its endemic of the squad. Quality and depth has lacked and thats part of the reason why we are where we are now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 He doesnt have the be the player he was at Bolton in this league, he has to be better than most defences and he has been. Our squad isnt that bad. Reality is we're joint top and until recently were beating everyside put infront of us, so questioning the quality of our team being good enough doesnt make much sense. They clearly are. Agree with johnny about the problem with Nolan, he cant do very much when we're on the backfoot. But the solution to that isnt to get rid of players who arent useful when we play awfully, the solution is to not play awfully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 He doesnt have the be the player he was at Bolton in this league, he has to be better than most defences and he has been. Our squad isnt that bad. Reality is we're joint top and until recently were beating everyside put infront of us, so questioning the quality of our team being good enough doesnt make much sense. They clearly are. Agree with johnny about the problem with Nolan, he cant do very much when we're on the backfoot. But the solution to that isnt to get rid of players who arent useful when we play awfully, the solution is to not play awfully. Well...its getting to the stage we're struggling against just as many sides as we've beaten and think we've rode our luck a bit given the threadbare squad. I'll agree we have players who are far and away superior to the general quality of this league but to say we have a team good enough and with enough to be truly sucessful in this league is optimisic...Hope i'm wrong pal. i really do. I do also realise they can play so much better than last night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 He doesnt have the be the player he was at Bolton in this league, he has to be better than most defences and he has been. Our squad isnt that bad. Reality is we're joint top and until recently were beating everyside put infront of us, so questioning the quality of our team being good enough doesnt make much sense. They clearly are. Agree with johnny about the problem with Nolan, he cant do very much when we're on the backfoot. But the solution to that isnt to get rid of players who arent useful when we play awfully, the solution is to not play awfully. Well...its getting to the stage we're struggling against just as many sides as we've beaten and think we've rode our luck a bit given the threadbare squad. I'll agree we have players who are far and away superior to the general quality of this league but to say we have a team good enough and with enough to be truly sucessful in this league is optimisic...Hope i'm wrong pal. i really do. I do also realise they can play so much better than last night the balance in our squad is all wrong and has been for ages now. While we might have some good individual players we don't have a good mix of players. too many old farts who can barely last 15 minutes in a championship game all playing alongside each other, very little pace, only one winger at the club, very few creators etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2009/10/19/chris-hughton-offered-newcastle-united-job-72703-24965912/ Looks like the fat cunt has a new puppet. Hughton has gone right down in my estimation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidfieldGeneral Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Breaking news on SSN now!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2009/10/19/chris-hughton-offered-newcastle-united-job-72703-24965912/ Looks like the fat c*** has a new puppet. Hughton has gone right down in my estimation We're fucked! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Sale off then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 What a clueless cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 oh dear, oh dear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_F Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 fuckety fuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 David Craig saying fans should be chuffed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 We need to give Hughton the same abuse reserved for the fat cunt. He's basically letting Ashley bend him over for a few extra quid, spineless twat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Useless clueless out of his depth Wake the fuck up boys we have allowed this to happen by our continued support Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 David Craig saying fans should be chuffed. That twat is as bad as Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Hughton told the Chronicle today: "I am honoured to be offered the job, we are still in negotiations, it is something we hope will get resolved What is there to negotiate? You'd think Hughton was holding out for a better job the way he's going on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Sale off then Was it ever really on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Hughton told the Chronicle today: "I am honoured to be offered the job, we are still in negotiations, it is something we hope will get resolved <b>What is there to negotiate</b>? You'd think Hughton was holding out for a better job the way he's going on Money probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 ffs, a shit day gets worse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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