Portsmouth FC in yet more trouble - administration again?

[Exiled in Texas]

I siding with Brummie here....

 

Way out of control or slightly out of control?  The only difference is when the end comes.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Couple of points:

 

Compare that with Newcastle, we sustained a high wage bill, too high of course for a number of years, but we had the ability through our fan base, corporate facilities and marketing to pay for that had we achieved success on the pitch.

 

 

Thats the thing though isnt it? We were running up substantial year on year losses and had run out of ways to generate money. If nothing had changed (ie a new owner or if Fred had got outside investment) then we could well be where Portsmouth are now

[afar]

Couple of points:

 

Compare that with Newcastle, we sustained a high wage bill, too high of course for a number of years, but we had the ability through our fan base, corporate facilities and marketing to pay for that had we achieved success on the pitch.

 

 

Thats the thing though isnt it? We were running up substantial year on year losses and had run out of ways to generate money. If nothing had changed (ie a new owner or if Fred had got outside investment) then we could well be where Portsmouth are now

 

You are missing the crucial point, we had the potential to get back in the black, if we achieved success on the pitch, there was room for revenue expansion. For Pompey there was never a chance in hell of them being able to get into any kind of profitable state, even if they went on to champions league qulaification, they just didn't have the fan base, or structure in place to sustain it.

I'm not saying we were anywhere near that responsible but our situation is or was the same as pompey's.

[madras]

Couple of points:

 

Compare that with Newcastle, we sustained a high wage bill, too high of course for a number of years, but we had the ability through our fan base, corporate facilities and marketing to pay for that had we achieved success on the pitch.

 

 

Thats the thing though isnt it? We were running up substantial year on year losses and had run out of ways to generate money. If nothing had changed (ie a new owner or if Fred had got outside investment) then we could well be where Portsmouth are now

 

You are missing the crucial point, we had the potential to get back in the black, if we achieved success on the pitch, there was room for revenue expansion. For Pompey there was never a chance in hell of them being able to get into any kind of profitable state, even if they went on to champions league qulaification, they just didn't have the fan base, or structure in place to sustain it.

I'm not saying we were anywhere near that responsible but our situation is or was the same as pompey's.

and there is the crux of the matter. to achieve success on the pitch it would mean going further into the red from the position we were already in.........you can't go on borrowing indefinitly and some say we had nothing left to borrow against.

[jdckelly]

Couple of points:

 

Compare that with Newcastle, we sustained a high wage bill, too high of course for a number of years, but we had the ability through our fan base, corporate facilities and marketing to pay for that had we achieved success on the pitch.

 

 

Thats the thing though isnt it? We were running up substantial year on year losses and had run out of ways to generate money. If nothing had changed (ie a new owner or if Fred had got outside investment) then we could well be where Portsmouth are now

 

You are missing the crucial point, we had the potential to get back in the black, if we achieved success on the pitch, there was room for revenue expansion. For Pompey there was never a chance in hell of them being able to get into any kind of profitable state, even if they went on to champions league qulaification, they just didn't have the fan base, or structure in place to sustain it.

I'm not saying we were anywhere near that responsible but our situation is or was the same as pompey's.

and there is the crux of the matter. to achieve success on the pitch it would mean going further into the red from the position we were already in.........you can't go on borrowing indefinitly and some say we had nothing left to borrow against.

wasnt freddie planning to borrow 300m for stadium expansion and other developments before ashley came and took the rug from under him?

[Jaehyun]

at least they are a premiership club eh ?

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague.

how is it undeserved ?

Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind.

 

Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though?

 

This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

Fair point, but there's quite a difference when a club hasn't been able to pay their players for several months this year IMO. Not saying the overspending doesn't need to stop, but there's quite a difference between Pompeys overspending and anyone elses.

 

No, there isn't that much of a difference.

 

Spending 100 percent of your turnover on salaries is unsustainable. Spending 80 percent of your turnover on salaries is also unsustainable.

 

One just becomes fatal quicker than the other.

You really think it's not much of a difference? Of course there's a difference. If the 'extent' of behaviour in this case, the degree of risk in financial gamble made 'little difference' there'd be no such thing as the financial world. Our wage to turnover ratio was around 70-75% in the premierleague, since then we've reuduced that wagebill by a considerable amount so when we get promoted again we'll be in a much more sound position. Portsmouth's wage bill was not far off us but they had much less turnover. Our godsend in disguise is probably Ashley paying off our debt and us getting relegated so that our money grabbers who weren't achieving results left, otherwise yes we might have ended up somewhere similar to Portsmouth how so many years down the track.

 

But to say that the difference between an 80% wage to turnover ratio has 'little difference' to a 100% wage to turnover ratio is simply absurd, just because both ours clubs have high wage to turnover ratios, a club that leaves 20% of its turnover for running costs, and a club that leaves 0% for running costs are pretty much the same thing? No way, that's ridiculous. That's like saying, a guy who's fit is in great shape, who enjoys MacDonalds or KFC once a week is 'little different' from an obese guy with heart problems who eats MacDonalds or KFC every second day, simply for the fact that they both eat MacDonalds or KFC too often.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add this but yes i'll be happy when Newcastle takes Portsmouth's undeserved place in the premierleague, undeserved yes, not just for their finances, but conclusively the fact that even before their 9 point deduction they're on 19 points.

[Mowen]

Does anyone else think that the arse falling out of the football industry, and the tv money getting correspondingly slashed and football regressing a bit might actually be a *good* thing?

 

I know one argument will be that our league won't compete with other European ones, but beyond supporters of the Sky 4, does anyone really have any interest in that?

 

I have no desire whatsoever for any of those four clubs to be anywhere near European silverware.

 

I'd rather see 20 teams (or less, ideally) with eleven Warren Aspinalls running around if it made things more competitive.

 

Much as I agree...all I can think about is football becoming as shit as that clip of women's football that made Keys and Gray cry with laughter. I'm sure it wouldn't get that bad, would it? I might kill myself if it did.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

[BlueStar]

What happens if they beat spurs, then get wound up before the final? Would chelsea or villa just get a bye to the trophy? Would they have to go to wembley and just pick up the cup? To be honest, I'd travel down for that if it was us, beats rolling over to Arsenal or Man U

[Liam Liam Liam O]

What happens if they beat spurs, then get wound up before the final? Would chelsea or villa just get a bye to the trophy? Would they have to go to wembley and just pick up the cup? To be honest, I'd travel down for that if it was us, beats rolling over to Arsenal or Man U

 

We'd still lose.

[Heron]

Was genuinely pleased for them to beat Birmingham.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

 

However, most other clubs have overspent just as much, they've just used better financial management to handle their debts.

 

[ikri]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

 

However, most other clubs have overspent just as much, they've just used better financial management to handle their debts.

 

 

Wouldn't that suggest that most other clubs haven't overspent?  If they've spent within their means to repay their debts then that's not really overspending. 

 

What Portsmouth did was spend far beyond their ability to ever repay, even if they'd managed to get into the Champion's League their earnings wouldn't have covered their expenditure.  They might point to their plans for a new stadium, but they've not been filling their current one so it's debatable that they'd have been able to meet their best possible income projections.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

 

However, most other clubs have overspent just as much, they've just used better financial management to handle their debts.

 

 

Wouldn't that suggest that most other clubs haven't overspent?  If they've spent within their means to repay their debts then that's not really overspending. 

 

What Portsmouth did was spend far beyond their ability to ever repay, even if they'd managed to get into the Champion's League their earnings wouldn't have covered their expenditure.  They might point to their plans for a new stadium, but they've not been filling their current one so it's debatable that they'd have been able to meet their best possible income projections.

 

Yeah, fair point. I think there will be other clubs where the debt levels turn out to be unsustainable though, Pompey are just the first and worst example.

[Jaehyun]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

 

However, most other clubs have overspent just as much, they've just used better financial management to handle their debts.

 

 

Wouldn't that suggest that most other clubs haven't overspent?  If they've spent within their means to repay their debts then that's not really overspending. 

 

What Portsmouth did was spend far beyond their ability to ever repay, even if they'd managed to get into the Champion's League their earnings wouldn't have covered their expenditure.  They might point to their plans for a new stadium, but they've not been filling their current one so it's debatable that they'd have been able to meet their best possible income projections.

 

Yeah, fair point. I think there will be other clubs where the debt levels turn out to be unsustainable though, Pompey are just the first and worst example.

Spot on. Feel sorry for the fans yes, but I don't think the club itself is hard-done by the punishment, don't think it's unfair either, I think it's definitely fair presuming, if they hadn't spent beyond their means they might be in the championship instead of us. As harsh as what I am is saying, and the Villa fan before commenting that it's glass-housed for a newcastle fan, well if we overspend like them, we'll come under the same punishment, so don't see how Portsmouth are being treated unfairly, and don't see why we need to feel sorry for them. The only people I feel sorry for are the fans, not the club itself.

[ikri]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

 

However, most other clubs have overspent just as much, they've just used better financial management to handle their debts.

 

 

Wouldn't that suggest that most other clubs haven't overspent?  If they've spent within their means to repay their debts then that's not really overspending. 

 

What Portsmouth did was spend far beyond their ability to ever repay, even if they'd managed to get into the Champion's League their earnings wouldn't have covered their expenditure.  They might point to their plans for a new stadium, but they've not been filling their current one so it's debatable that they'd have been able to meet their best possible income projections.

 

Yeah, fair point. I think there will be other clubs where the debt levels turn out to be unsustainable though, Pompey are just the first and worst example.

 

Liverpool are the first that spring to mind, take away their Champion's League money and they'll struggle (probably to the point that they'd be forced to sell Torres & Gerrard and without them in the team earlier this season they looked woeful).

 

Aston Villa & Wigan owe fortunes but have rich backers, West Ham are right on the edge & relegation would probably see them in administration, Hull have already said that without the Premiership cash they'd go broke almost overnight.  I think that there are only 5-6 clubs in the Premiership who have incomes that currently exceed their outgoings.

[Robster]

Of all the clubs that have writing in their seating areas, Portsmouth's is by far the shoddiest. Totally amateur.

 

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6834/portsmouthaerial2.jpg

[Doctor Zaius]

Peter Storrie has walked out on them now, said he coulsnt tolerate anymore abuse. I always thouht he came across as a good guy who genuinely wanted the best for them.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/12/peter-storrie-leaves-portsmouth

[Stifler]

Peter Storrie has walked out on them now, said he coulsnt tolerate anymore abuse. I always thouht he came across as a good guy who genuinely wanted the best for them.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/12/peter-storrie-leaves-portsmouth

 

Wasn't his job made redundant because of the adminstrators coming into the club?

 

 

Anyway have the cunts still not not be deducted the 9 points?

[Rob W]

Lets just hope he nivvor turns  up at SJP.........

 

:knuppel2:

[Stifler]

I see they have now been deducted the 9 points.

[Incognito]

They need snookers now.

[David28]

Even with that 9 points deduction they still could reach over 40 points. Would be marvellous for them and their fans to achieve that.

[jdckelly]

portsmouth to field weakened sides starting against hull as they focus on the fa cup semi. Bet scudamore and co love that

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Portsmouth-set-to-field-weakened-side-against-Hull-and-prioritise-the-FA-Cup-in-response-to-Premier-League-s-nine-point-penalty-article359713.html

[brummie]

Presumably the docking of the points is a punishment for spending beyond their means and gaining an unfair advantage in the league by doing so over clubs who haven't done the same.

 

The same overspending hasn't been punished in the FA Cup though here they now have a place in the semi final.

 

However, most other clubs have overspent just as much, they've just used better financial management to handle their debts.

 

 

Wouldn't that suggest that most other clubs haven't overspent?  If they've spent within their means to repay their debts then that's not really overspending. 

 

What Portsmouth did was spend far beyond their ability to ever repay, even if they'd managed to get into the Champion's League their earnings wouldn't have covered their expenditure.  They might point to their plans for a new stadium, but they've not been filling their current one so it's debatable that they'd have been able to meet their best possible income projections.

 

Yeah, fair point. I think there will be other clubs where the debt levels turn out to be unsustainable though, Pompey are just the first and worst example.

Spot on. Feel sorry for the fans yes, but I don't think the club itself is hard-done by the punishment, don't think it's unfair either, I think it's definitely fair presuming, if they hadn't spent beyond their means they might be in the championship instead of us. As harsh as what I am is saying, and the Villa fan before commenting that it's glass-housed for a newcastle fan, well if we overspend like them, we'll come under the same punishment, so don't see how Portsmouth are being treated unfairly, and don't see why we need to feel sorry for them. The only people I feel sorry for are the fans, not the club itself.

 

You're entirely missing my point, which was that it is sad for the Portsmouth fans to see their club tottering on the verge of extinction.

 

I have absolutely no synpathy for the likes of Storrie (who, lest we forget, was the one signing the 80k a week contract for the likes of John Utaka and has more blame to shoulder than anyone in this situation).