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Portsmouth FC in yet more trouble - administration again?

GG

by GG
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James

James

Posted
Posted

I'd imagine three would still go up like normal and three would drop from the Prem, Portsmouth automatically being one of them.

 

He's talking about if Portsmouth go out of business though, so they no longer exist as a Football club.

 

Then 2 will go down and three up, which equals 20 PL clubs. Then there are 23 clubs in the Championship, so 4 go up from League 1, 3 down. Then 5 up from League 2, 4 down. Then 3 up from the football conference 2 down and then press AABCABBC and it is a fatality for Portsmouth

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Stifler

Stifler

Posted
Posted

I'd imagine three would still go up like normal and three would drop from the Prem, Portsmouth automatically being one of them.

 

He's talking about if Portsmouth go out of business though, so they no longer exist as a Football club.

 

Then 2 will go down and three up, which equals 20 PL clubs. Then there are 23 clubs in the Championship, so 4 go up from League 1, 3 down. Then 5 up from League 2, 4 down. Then 3 up from the football conference 2 down and then press AABCABBC and it is a fatality for Portsmouth

 

Yup, thats right, basically what happend in the Scottish Leagues when Gretna went bust

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ToonTastic

ToonTastic

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So if Portsmouth go out of business does that mean 3 teams up this year from the Championship ?

 

I would imagine that either they will be 3 automatic promotion places or whoever finishes 4th bottom in Prem goes down

my knowledge is that 2 would go down instead if pompey go bust

 

I meant automatic with the usual playoff making a fourth place.

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ToonTastic

ToonTastic

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I'd imagine three would still go up like normal and three would drop from the Prem, Portsmouth automatically being one of them.

 

He's talking about if Portsmouth go out of business though, so they no longer exist as a Football club.

 

Then 2 will go down and three up, which equals 20 PL clubs. Then there are 23 clubs in the Championship, so 4 go up from League 1, 3 down. Then 5 up from League 2, 4 down. Then 3 up from the football conference 2 down and then press AABCABBC and it is a fatality for Portsmouth

 

Yup, thats right, basically what happend in the Scottish Leagues when Gretna went bust

 

Thanks

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Guest ProudToBeAGeordie

Guest ProudToBeAGeordie

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no chance of the Premier League relegating 4 teams. If the unlikley event Pompey went under, they would just take one of the 3 relagation places. 

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Guest Roger Kint

Guest Roger Kint

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May only be able to name 3 subs against West Ham if Finnan can't shake off a knock.

 

Not even put kids there? What a mess

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Guest Roger Kint

Guest Roger Kint

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May only be able to name 3 subs against West Ham if Finnan can't shake off a knock.

Even if Finnan does get fit, it still means they can only name 4 subs

 

Thats what he said ???

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Liam Liam Liam O

Liam Liam Liam O

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Thought I'd post these two articles which may or may not be of interest to anyone, from here http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/

 

 

Football clubs under threat from HMRC

 

Several football clubs, including Premier League Portsmouth began the New Year in a state of financial limbo, with reports circulating that HMRC had issued a batch of winding-up orders against clubs to recover unpaid tax liabilities. Notts County and Cardiff have also been caught in the spotlight.

 

Portsmouth issued a press statement pointing out that it not been formally served with any petition, adding it was shocked and surprised this action has been taken in respect of VAT, PAYE and National Insurance Contributions which either have been, or are about to be paid, or are disputed.

 

Since Ali Al Faraj bought Portsmouth in October 2009, extreme efforts have been made to agree a repayment schedule for tax liabilities inherited from the previous owner, the club said. A club spokesman said it had to issue the press statement after word was leaked to the BBC of a possible winding-up order.

 

The new owner has made £9.7m available to HMRC made up of £5.7m in payments £4m in unspecified securities. It is well known that the business has been in a difficult position following former owners decisions and the current owner is committed to resolving this and moving forward, the statement added. In such a tough economic environment the club finds it hard to understand this action by HMRC.

 

The Times reported that HMRCs case against Portsmouths is odd, as the club is reportedly only two months behind on its payments of VAT, PAYE and NIC payments. A number of other clubs including Cardiff City and Notts County (see comment below) are reported to have been threatened with winding-up petitions in recent weeks. With the January transfer window now in operation, the Times speculated that HMRC may be reminding clubs about their outstanding tax bills before they decide to buy or sell players.

 

As Notts County chief executive Peter Trembling noted this week, the recent harsh weather conditions have not helped clubs under threat as abandoned matches have eaten further into their operating cashflows.

 

An HMRC spokesman said the department was unable to comment on specific cases, but denied that there was a concerted campaign against football clubs this January. Essentially we have a duty to protect the Exchequer and UK taxpayers. Its our responsibility when a company isnt paying whats due to pursue it and ensure that debt is paid.

 

No particular sector was being targeted, but some businesses received more publicity than others, the spokesman explained. Winding-up orders are only used as a last resort if repayment agreements are not adhered to, he added, and the department would seek wherever possible to give taxpayers time to agree repayments.

 

Meanwhile, if Portsmouth manages to negotiate these financial hurdles, it then faces the prospect of an HMRC tax evasion case against its chief executive Peter Storrie over tax allegedly unpaid on defender Amdy Fayes £250,000 signing on fee. Lawyers acting for former manager Harry Redknapp and former chairman Milan Milandaric said they had been informed by HMRC that their clients would also be charged during the week of 11 January.

 

 

 

 

Tax and football: PAYE and NIC

 

The rest of us have to pay PAYE and NIC, so why do football clubs feel they can get away with it? Simon Sweetman reports.

 

There seems to have been a recent surge in HMRCs activity in trying to recover unpaid tax (PAYE and NIC) from football clubs. At the lower end of the league, Kings Lynn of the Unibond Premier was wound up in November 2009 owing £65,000, while Rochdale and Accrington Stanley teetered on the brink. Higher up the pyramid, Portsmouth, Notts County and Cardiff City have been served with winding up orders. Southend claimed it had overpaid a tax debt of £2.1m a couple of months ago by £200,000, withheld that money from its PAYE payments and to nobodys surprise it too is facing a possible winding up order.

 

In Cardiffs case it would appear the club owed £2.7m, negotiated a payment plan, and failed to make the first payment under that plan. What would happen to one of your clients who did that?

Some clubs could have taken the hint. In October 2009 Mike Eland, HMRCs director general for enforcement and compliance, wrote to the Financial Times. This followed an article by Simon Kuper which had suggested: The government has quietly accepted that many football clubs will never pay their back taxes.

 

Mr Eland denied this, and said: Where clubs have a debt, we expect them to clear it even if that takes time and we will take action to recover the money or stop the debt growing if a club fails to come up with sensible proposals, or fails to stick to an arrangement.

 

That action often triggers an administration process which in turn usually leaves unsecured creditors, such as HM Revenue & Customs, having to choose between receiving a small payment or nothing. That is not the same as accepting that a club won't pay.

 

In November 2008 it was estimated that the cost to the Revenue of accepting write offs from clubs in administration had cost £28m in unpaid taxes.

 

Now the problem is that the Enterprise Act 2002 removed HMRCs preferred creditor status in administrations, meaning that when as usually seems to be the case a club in administration pays its creditors 5% or 10%, HMRC has to suffer along with the rest or refuse to accept a CVA. In the past, HMRC has gone along with CVAs, often reluctantly, because putting a football club into liquidation has been seen as on a par with shooting a puppy. Clubs now suffer a points deduction for going into administration, but mostly they emerge again.

 

What has made this more galling for HMRC (and, it must be said, for the large number of small business creditors that get paid 5% as well) is the FAs rule that football creditors must be paid in full (a rule that has no basis in law), so the club pays the outstanding wages and leaves HMRC to whistle for the PAYE. Frank Goldberg of BDO said, HMRC has never accepted that defaulting on taxes is an appropriate way to manage a clubs cash flow and it takes a dim view of those who do. He then suggests that they should take expert advice, though it seems unlikely that Premier League clubs routinely use street corner accountancy firms.

 

HMRC has the usual problem here. The club spokespeople will go bleating to the press especially to the local paper with whom they will have a cosy relationship usually with a self-justifying tale about the unreasonableness of HMRC. They know that the Revenue will not and cannot comment on particular cases, so it is often only the clubs side of the story that gets reported. Too often, the local reporters dont even realise it is PAYE that is in question.

 

We are now in the January sales window. This is the point at which football clubs (reluctantly) can raise some cash by selling players or saving money by sending them out on loan if they are leaned on hard enough. They can be remarkably recalcitrant, though. Portsmouths deal to loan David James to Stoke fell through because they were not prepared to go on paying enough of what Stoke felt were his exorbitant wages. (Was there any discussion of who would cope with the PAYE on those?) Now we hear that Portsmouths attempt to have the winding up order dismissed by the court has fallen by the wayside. Are we heading for the first Premier League car crash?

 

 

 

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Stifler

Stifler

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I just don't think Portsmouth are going to be able to sell enough player in time. I mean were are about a week or so away from the transfer deadline, none of their players have left yet, 2 of the deals have already cocked up because of them and no one is going to be stupid enough pay loads of money at the end of the transfer window because they know that they will be able to get them on a free within a month or so when they go bust. Their has been talk that Portsmouth will be given extra time to sell players outside of the transfer window, but I just can't see that, if they done that for Portsmouth then they would have to do it for every other team in threat of going under.

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Guest Roger Kint

Guest Roger Kint

Posted
Posted

Transfer embargo lifted.  They can loan and make free signings again. :lol:

 

FYP

 

fyp

 

;D Was going to post that too but the chances of getting a free in January isnt great

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